GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

Post Reply
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2949
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:33 pm

How ironic that the Republican party of Lincoln is currently so adamant about defending the Confederate legacy....politics is strange.

The problem with being a rational creature is that one can rationalize anything...so I'm fully prepared to hear a million reasons why this makes logical sense.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2864
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:50 pm

I haven't been keeping on top of the news lately, so I'm not sure what fresh outrage triggered talking about Confederates again, but I'm going to drop a half-cocked opinion on you anyways because THIS. IS. INTERNET!
doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:33 pm
How ironic that the Republican party of Lincoln is currently so adamant about defending the Confederate legacy....politics is strange.

The problem with being a rational creature is that one can rationalize anything...so I'm fully prepared to hear a million reasons why this makes logical sense.
It's called being a good winner! When a good winner beats someone, they don't rub their face in it. When you let people save face and salvage some dignity from their loss, especially for completely legit reasons (such as their highly-skilled military), it seems to lead to better outcomes than if you just shit all over them forever.
I hated all the things I had toiled for under the sun, because I must leave them to the one who comes after me. Who knows whether that person will be wise or foolish? Yet they will have control over all the fruit of my toil into which I have poured my effort and skill under the sun. . . Nothing is better for a man than to eat and drink and enjoy his work.
- Ecclesiastes
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2796
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by Xan » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:56 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:50 pm
I haven't been keeping on top of the news lately, so I'm not sure what fresh outrage triggered talking about Confederates again, but I'm going to drop a half-cocked opinion on you anyways because THIS. IS. INTERNET!
doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:33 pm
How ironic that the Republican party of Lincoln is currently so adamant about defending the Confederate legacy....politics is strange.

The problem with being a rational creature is that one can rationalize anything...so I'm fully prepared to hear a million reasons why this makes logical sense.
It's called being a good winner! When a good winner beats someone, they don't rub their face in it. When you let people save face and salvage some dignity from their loss, especially for completely legit reasons (such as their highly-skilled military), it seems to lead to better outcomes than if you just shit all over them forever.
Hear, hear!

What's going on now is "breaking the peace". From right after Reconstruction until just recently, it was agreed by everyone that soldiers on both sides fought nobly, that there were good men on both sides, that veterans on both sides were American veterans eligible for honor and benefits. Lincoln's favorite tune was Dixie.
stuper1
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by stuper1 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:08 pm

I heard a good point today on the Triggernometry podcast, which by the way I heartily recommend. Two British guys host the podcast. One of them is an immigrant from Russia and grew up under communism, which he hates with a passion. They were talking about statues getting pulled down in the UK. He asked, "Does this mean that I can just unilaterally decide to go pull down the statue of Karl Marx in London?"

In other words, who gets to decide which statues get pulled down? Is it all just done willy-nilly under mob rule? Or is there some orderly procedure? The rightists are the rule of law people. The leftists are wishy-washy, touchy-feely people.
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2949
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:01 pm

Choosing not to name schools or public buildings after Confederate officials is not being a shitty winner. No one is removing these people from the history books but commemorating these individuals who fought for a system that is universally reviled by naming institutions after them is a bit tasteless for a large segment of our population. Would be nice if this forum had a bit wider swath of individual life experience than those pertaining to middle age INTJ WASP men.
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2949
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:05 pm

Confederate soldiers fought to preserve one of the most brutal stains on American history. I really think many of you have emotionally disconnected yourselves from how reprehensible the system of slavery was that existed in this country for centuries.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3922
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:28 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:56 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:50 pm
I haven't been keeping on top of the news lately, so I'm not sure what fresh outrage triggered talking about Confederates again, but I'm going to drop a half-cocked opinion on you anyways because THIS. IS. INTERNET!
doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:33 pm
How ironic that the Republican party of Lincoln is currently so adamant about defending the Confederate legacy....politics is strange.

The problem with being a rational creature is that one can rationalize anything...so I'm fully prepared to hear a million reasons why this makes logical sense.
It's called being a good winner! When a good winner beats someone, they don't rub their face in it. When you let people save face and salvage some dignity from their loss, especially for completely legit reasons (such as their highly-skilled military), it seems to lead to better outcomes than if you just shit all over them forever.
Hear, hear!

What's going on now is "breaking the peace". From right after Reconstruction until just recently, it was agreed by everyone that soldiers on both sides fought nobly, that there were good men on both sides, that veterans on both sides were American veterans eligible for honor and benefits. Lincoln's favorite tune was Dixie.
Hear, hear, hear! Warning: Trigger was a horse. Snowflakes fall from the sky and melt when heat is present. Rewriting history is for losers. Put that in your book! Or your pipe and smoke it. Or shove it up your butt (I think butts are still ‘equal’ but who knows how long that will last in this perverted culture where anything offends everyone). Going back to whistling Dixie now. Carry on, enjoy the anarchy. >:(
Its OK if some people don’t like you, not everyone has good taste.
pmward
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:39 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by pmward » Fri Jun 12, 2020 4:49 pm

I hope all the statues get torn down, buildings renamed, etc. It's been 160 years already. It's about damn time we finally work to move on and stop celebrating that hideous part of this countries history. I bet you don't see Nazi landmarks still standing and being held as sacred in Germany. The fact that confederate landmarks are still kept as sacred here is ridiculous. It's time to move on. Burn it all down! I'll light the match myself... Honestly, it makes me sick to my stomach seeing those of you here defending this issue.
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2949
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:01 pm

Thank you pmward...I get the conservative desire to maintain status quo, but being an African American teenager and having to attend a high school named after Robert. E Lee has to be off-putting experience. Take down the statues and put them in museums, I'm not for erasing this from history books, I just feel like the Confederate legacy shouldn't be attached to public institutions.
stuper1
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by stuper1 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:04 pm

Ok, but be careful what you wish for. What you're wishing for is basically a Hunger Games type government, centralized thousands of miles away and not listening at all to local concerns. I hope I got my movie analogy close to correct, because truthfully I only ever sat through half of the first Hunger Games movie.

Anywho, what the Confederates fought for was self determination via their state government, which they took to be their sovereign government at that time.
stuper1
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1050
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by stuper1 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:06 pm

I think you give African American teenagers less respect than they deserve. They can understand fighting for what you believe in and protecting your family. They can also understand that what people believe to be right can evolve over time.
doodle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2949
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: GOP defending Confederate legacy?

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:14 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:06 pm
I think you give African American teenagers less respect than they deserve. They can understand fighting for what you believe in and protecting your family. They can also understand that what people believe to be right can evolve over time.
As I said...people can rationalize anything. I'm shocked that you can even believe the bullshit that you just wrote...when what you "believe in" is the dehumanization, objectification, murder, rape and torture of an entire race of people. Seriously shocked the lengths that some people will go to defend this legacy.
Post Reply