GOP defending Confederate legacy?

[Mark Leavy]

love the gods of the copy book heading,
your link here is well and appropriately placed..

from my experience with millennial's - over hearing their conversations- i lean towards thinking that they are not likely right about anything, any attempt at communication so peppered with the word "LIKE" that it renders the thought expressed incomprehensible, is probably not clear thinking to begin with..

on the plus side they are trying to have and express thoughts so maybe all is not lost...

It runs the range. I've not completely lost hope for all of mankind. I know some very sharp, creative young men and women - that give me confidence in the future. Obviously, they are a very small percentage, but isn't that the same for every age group? I just hope that they end up being in charge when the time comes.

And, of course, these aren't the folks who are out in the streets protesting and tearing things up. They are quietly building a new and exciting future. With math and hard work and families and too damn many photos of kids and dogs. People like our own Smith man.

i am not really as worried about millennial's as my post might make it seem, i know my sample is horribly narrow, listening to out of work baristas talking about ? ? ? ?... you would have to expect it to be on the bottom end of the range...
i mostly just wanted to goof on the excessive over use of the word LIKE.

[Lonestar]

from my experience with millennial's - over hearing their conversations- i lean towards thinking that they are not likely right about anything, any attempt at communication so peppered with the word "LIKE" that it renders the thought expressed incomprehensible, is probably not clear thinking to begin with..

It runs the range. I've not completely lost hope for all of mankind. I know some very sharp, creative young men and women - that give me confidence in the future. Obviously, they are a very small percentage, but isn't that the same for every age group? I just hope that they end up being in charge when the time comes.

And, of course, these aren't the folks who are out in the streets protesting and tearing things up. They are quietly building a new and exciting future. With math and hard work and families and too damn many photos of kids and dogs. People like our own Smith man.

I'm positive it's not the majority of the young folks that are tearing down monuments, or even for that matter protesting. I do feel they support respect for all races, and want to see everyone treated equal. What concerns me is the small segment of this age group that we have seen on the news for the past few weeks appear to be molding the future.

We are seeing government and corporate America folding to their demands. It's much like the small ultra liberal segment of the Democratic party demanding radical change, and highly influencing the party as a whole.

[Xan]

"The Eyes of Texas" - a beloved tradition at the University of Texas, sung for over 100 years at occasions as solemn as funerals and as joyous as national championships. After every game, the athletes turn to the fans and everybody sings the song. Here's a picture:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... seball.JPG

Here are the lyrics (the tune is "I've Been Working on the Railroad"):

The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
You cannot get away.
Do not think you can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon you
Til Gabriel blows his horn.

Now it's on the ropes. I thought at first it was because of the reference to the trumpet signaling the End Times. No... It's because it's "racist"!

The song was inspired by the University president at the time who was fond of saying "The eyes of Texas are upon you". He had attended Washington and Lee University, whose president Robert E Lee used to say "The eyes of the South are upon you". Strike one.

The UT student who wrote the song based on the president's phrase was part of a fundraising group which put on a minstrel show. The song was written for that show. Strike two.

Does this mean that everything with the remotest connection to General Lee must be expunged? And that anything that was ever performed in blackface has to disappear?

[Xan]

Now the SEC (of all things!) is demanding that Mississippi change its flag or else they won't be able to host big tournaments or some such.

It may well be that nobody at the SEC office is well-versed in vexillology, because although only Mississippi directly bears the Confederate battle emblem anymore, plenty of other states' flags are descended from Confederate flags:

* Alabama
* Florida
* Georgia
* Arkansas

Tennessee and North Carolina have designs with a similar "feel" but don't seem to have explicit descent.

Will all these flags need to change too? Isn't that most of the SEC?

[doodle]

Now the SEC (of all things!) is demanding that Mississippi change its flag or else they won't be able to host big tournaments or some such.

It may well be that nobody at the SEC office is well-versed in vexillology, because although only Mississippi directly bears the Confederate battle emblem anymore, plenty of other states' flags are descended from Confederate flags:

* Alabama
* Florida
* Georgia
* Arkansas

Tennessee and North Carolina have designs with a similar "feel" but don't seem to have explicit descent.

Will all these flags need to change too? Isn't that most of the SEC?

Is it ever justified to revisit past decisions to amend them given changing cultural environments? Why must past decisions forever become a static part of the future. I would also argue that symbolism matters....if the confederate flag is a symbol of a bygone era that we no longer want to draw attention to moving forward, even if only subconciously, then i can't see any good argument why it shouldnt be retired. Its this part of hanging on to the past come hell or high water conservative mindset that I never understood. Things change, and thats ok.

[pp4me]

Now the SEC (of all things!) is demanding that Mississippi change its flag or else they won't be able to host big tournaments or some such.

It may well be that nobody at the SEC office is well-versed in vexillology, because although only Mississippi directly bears the Confederate battle emblem anymore, plenty of other states' flags are descended from Confederate flags:

* Alabama
* Florida
* Georgia
* Arkansas

Tennessee and North Carolina have designs with a similar "feel" but don't seem to have explicit descent.

Will all these flags need to change too? Isn't that most of the SEC?

Is it ever justified to revisit past decisions to amend them given changing cultural environments? Why must past decisions forever become a static part of the future. I would also argue that symbolism matters....if the confederate flag is a symbol of a bygone era that we no longer want to draw attention to moving forward, even if only subconciously, then i can't see any good argument why it shouldnt be retired. Its this part of hanging on to the past come hell or high water conservative mindset that I never understood. Things change, and thats ok.

What do you think about the statues of Marx and Lenin in Seattle?

[stuper1]

Marx and Lenin were pacifistic figures whose ideas and actions never hurt a flea. Why should anyone care what happens to their statues?

[pp4me]

Marx and Lenin were pacifistic figures whose ideas and actions never hurt a flea. Why should anyone care what happens to their statues?

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not. Their ideas never hurt a flea?

Tearing down those statues would be a repudiation of communism and all the evil it has caused in the world. Isn't that what tearing down the confederate statues is all about?

[stuper1]

It's an interesting thought experiment: what would happen if the Conservative Club at the University of Washington started a riot and pulled down the statues of Marx and Lenin? I imagine they would get arrested, charged with vandalism, and made to pay restitution and penalties.

However, when Black Lives Matter pull down statues, there are no consequences. Is this because we don't think that black people can be held responsible for their actions? We need to treat them differently than we would treat most people. Isn't that a racist attitude in itself? Seriously, I see way more racism in leftist thought than in rightist thought. Rightists just want people to be judged by how they behave not on the color of their skin.

[doodle]

It's an interesting thought experiment: what would happen if the Conservative Club at the University of Washington started a riot and pulled down the statues of Marx and Lenin? I imagine they would get arrested, charged with vandalism, and made to pay restitution and penalties.

However, when Black Lives Matter pull down statues, there are no consequences. Is this because we don't think that black people can be held responsible for their actions? We need to treat them differently than we would treat most people. Isn't that a racist attitude in itself? Seriously, I see way more racism in leftist thought than in rightist thought. Rightists just want people to be judged by how they behave not on the color of their skin.

Wasn't aware of them. Lenin statue sits on private property apparently....I think that distinction is important. This issue pertains to public institutions. A Lenin statue on public building should be removed due to historical events I believe. In fact I'm starting to wonder now about any statues commemorating specific individuals instead of just artistic expressions. A statue of a particular individual is kind of a weird thing....

[stuper1]

Now, you're getting it. Pull down all the statues. I think Aristotle was the tutor of Alexander the Great, and Alexander had slaves. Therefore, any statue of Aristotle needs to come down. And any books that have Aristotle's ideas in them need to be burned.

[stuper1]

Here's another thought experiment, two sides of the coin. A black guy walks into a gym full of white people. That's one side of the coin. The other side is a white guy walks into a gym full of black people.

Which one of these two people likely subjectively feels more fear in his mind, the black guy walking into the white gym or the white guy walking into the black gym? Of course, this will vary greatly with the individuals, but just on average, which one of these two people is likely to subjectively feel more fear in his mind?

Now, taking out subjective feelings and just going by statistics, which one should objectively feel more fear in his mind? In other words, statistically speaking, is there more white-on-black crime or more black-on-white crime?

I suspect both subjectively and objectively the answers are the same. And yet we are told that we should be worried about white supremacy being a huge problem in this country. In other words, the media is just stirring things up for their own purposes, which are basically to get more click revenue and to please their biggest advertisers.

[doodle]

Here's another thought experiment, two sides of the coin. A black guy walks into a gym full of white people. That's one side of the coin. The other side is a white guy walks into a gym full of black people.

Which one of these two people likely subjectively feels more fear in his mind, the black guy walking into the white gym or the white guy walking into the black gym? Of course, this will vary greatly with the individuals, but just on average, which one of these two people is likely to subjectively feel more fear in his mind?

Now, taking out subjective feelings and just going by statistics, which one should objectively feel more fear in his mind? In other words, statistically speaking, is there more white-on-black crime or more black-on-white crime?

I suspect both subjectively and objectively the answers are the same. And yet we are told that we should be worried about white supremacy being a huge problem in this country. In other words, the media is just stirring things up for their own purposes, which are basically to get more click revenue and to please their biggest advertisers.

Not sure how this thought experiment pertains to the distasteful nature of Confederate statues on public property....

I think there is a distinction between slave owner and person who fought for the preservation of slavery. While our founding fathers might have owned slaves, that was a byproduct of their social times....in the same way that their wives couldn't vote. This is different from someone who actively went to war to preserve and expand the institution of slavery....I think that is important distinction.

[doodle]

I also don't think you can fully appreciate what it's like to grow up in a country that enslaved your people for 400 years, and then discrimated against your people through the law for another 100 years. A country whose monuments and history books are full of positive stories about people that probably raped, murdered, flogged and at the very least subjugated and dehumanized your race and culture. I don't think you have any idea what it must feel like to be raised in those circumstances and the psychological effects it must have on your development

[stuper1]

99% of the guys who fought and died for the Confederacy never owned or even talked to a slave in their entire life. So why do you think they fought to preserve slavery? They didn't. What they fought for was their country. Just like the guys we honor who died in lots of other wars. And now you're telling me that these people who fought for their country but never owned a slave are bad, but those who actually owned slaves are okay. That seems odd.

[stuper1]

I also don't think you can fully appreciate what it's like to grow up in a country that enslaved your people for 400 years, and then discrimated against your people through the law for another 100 years. A country whose monuments and history books are full of positive stories about people that probably raped, murdered, flogged and at the very least subjugated and dehumanized your race and culture. I don't think you have any idea what it must feel like to be raised in those circumstances and the psychological effects it must have on your development

Can you appreciate what it feels like to know that you are descended from brutal rapists, murderers, floggers, and dehumanizers? It's very hard to know that my race is uniquely evil, unlike any other race of people who have ever existed. I'm not sure how I can ever make up for that. Oh wait, yes I do. I need to go out and try to do better tomorrow. That's the same thing that black people need to do. If we give them a pass when they act like uncivilized lunatics, guess what? We aren't helping them at all.

[doodle]

No rational sane person is saying black people have the right to go out and burn down cities. Anyone who says that is an idiot. Sam Harris is right, we have a complete breakdown of respectful, sensitive and civil intelligent discourse in this country. The far left are as obnoxious as the far right in this regard. The problem is that you are completely fixated on the left as if their behavior emerges out of a vacuum and not seeing the way that the political right is instigating so much of this behavior. Its like if Johnny hit Bobby but no one calls out the fact that Bobby just called Johnny's mom a whore. Language and dialogue matter.

[doodle]

I also don't think you can fully appreciate what it's like to grow up in a country that enslaved your people for 400 years, and then discrimated against your people through the law for another 100 years. A country whose monuments and history books are full of positive stories about people that probably raped, murdered, flogged and at the very least subjugated and dehumanized your race and culture. I don't think you have any idea what it must feel like to be raised in those circumstances and the psychological effects it must have on your development

Not that it's any less evil to enslave people for 100 years vs 400 years, but please explain where you came up with that figure of 400 unless it came form Joe Biden. 1865-1776= < 100. Even if you go back to 1620 when they landed at Plymouth when we were not yet a country, that's still less than 250 years. Again, not that it's any less evil.

African slaves in the Americas...so not technically America as a nation. Does it really matter if the same flag was flown. Africans were enslaved on this American continent for 400 or so years.

[doodle]

By the way, I'd say that my language when discussing this issue is quite derogatory and incendiary. I would never use this same manner of speaking if I were the president...just like I speak differently in different roles and different social settings. Trump on the other hand doesn't understand this...you see it as an endearing feature I see it as some sort of psychological developmental issue.

[stuper1]

By the way, I'd say that my language when discussing this issue is quite derogatory and incendiary. I would never use this same manner of speaking if I were the president...just like I speak differently in different roles and different social settings. Trump on the other hand doesn't understand this...you see it as an endearing feature I see it as some sort of psychological developmental issue.

I suspect most of us don't see it as endearing. We just don't think that Clinton, Biden, or any other big-government type would be any better.

[pp4me]

I also don't think you can fully appreciate what it's like to grow up in a country that enslaved your people for 400 years, and then discrimated against your people through the law for another 100 years. A country whose monuments and history books are full of positive stories about people that probably raped, murdered, flogged and at the very least subjugated and dehumanized your race and culture. I don't think you have any idea what it must feel like to be raised in those circumstances and the psychological effects it must have on your development

Can you appreciate what it feels like to know that you are descended from brutal rapists, murderers, floggers, and dehumanizers? It's very hard to know that my race is uniquely evil, unlike any other race of people who have ever existed. I'm not sure how I can ever make up for that. Oh wait, yes I do. I need to go out and try to do better tomorrow. That's the same thing that black people need to do. If we give them a pass when they act like uncivilized lunatics, guess what? We aren't helping them at all.

How about giving everyone a copy of HB's book "How to find freedom in an unfree world" and be done with it.

Who the hell cares what happened 400 years ago any way? I have no clue what my ancestors were doing back then or even who they were.

[doodle]

By the way, I'd say that my language when discussing this issue is quite derogatory and incendiary. I would never use this same manner of speaking if I were the president...just like I speak differently in different roles and different social settings. Trump on the other hand doesn't understand this...you see it as an endearing feature I see it as some sort of psychological developmental issue.

I suspect most of us don't see it as endearing. We just don't think that Clinton, Biden, or any other big-government type would be any better.

If Biden spoke like this if be up one side of him and down the other as well. I'm not saying anyone should support Biden, just stop defending Trump's shitty leadership abilities. And by the way, for a small government type Trump certainly loves running up yuuuuggeee deficits.

[Libertarian666]

Here's another thought experiment, two sides of the coin. A black guy walks into a gym full of white people. That's one side of the coin. The other side is a white guy walks into a gym full of black people.

Which one of these two people likely subjectively feels more fear in his mind, the black guy walking into the white gym or the white guy walking into the black gym? Of course, this will vary greatly with the individuals, but just on average, which one of these two people is likely to subjectively feel more fear in his mind?

Now, taking out subjective feelings and just going by statistics, which one should objectively feel more fear in his mind? In other words, statistically speaking, is there more white-on-black crime or more black-on-white crime?

I suspect both subjectively and objectively the answers are the same. And yet we are told that we should be worried about white supremacy being a huge problem in this country. In other words, the media is just stirring things up for their own purposes, which are basically to get more click revenue and to please their biggest advertisers.

We don't have to guess about this because we actually have expert testimony on exactly this issue:

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

― Jesse Jackson (https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/5978-t ... this-stage)

[Libertarian666]

I also don't think you can fully appreciate what it's like to grow up in a country that enslaved your people for 400 years, and then discrimated against your people through the law for another 100 years. A country whose monuments and history books are full of positive stories about people that probably raped, murdered, flogged and at the very least subjugated and dehumanized your race and culture. I don't think you have any idea what it must feel like to be raised in those circumstances and the psychological effects it must have on your development

Not that it's any less evil to enslave people for 100 years vs 400 years, but please explain where you came up with that figure of 400 unless it came form Joe Biden. 1865-1776= < 100. Even if you go back to 1620 when they landed at Plymouth when we were not yet a country, that's still less than 250 years. Again, not that it's any less evil.

Didn't you know that math is racist?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/its- ... -is-racist

[Libertarian666]

I also don't think you can fully appreciate what it's like to grow up in a country that enslaved your people for 400 years, and then discrimated against your people through the law for another 100 years. A country whose monuments and history books are full of positive stories about people that probably raped, murdered, flogged and at the very least subjugated and dehumanized your race and culture. I don't think you have any idea what it must feel like to be raised in those circumstances and the psychological effects it must have on your development

I fully agree.

All people who feel this way should go back to the countries their ancestors came from, where they don't have to worry about all that white supremacy.

And all those who are trying to get into this terrible racist country should turn around and go right back to where they also won't have to worry about this.

Problem solved!