Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

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stuper1
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Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by stuper1 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:25 pm

I propose this thread as a place to list and discuss proposed specific, concrete actions that our society could take to address systemic racism.

The more specific the better. For example, if you say, "Vote for politicians who are inclusive," that is not very specific. If you say, "Vote for politicians who will enact X," and tell us what X is, then that is much more helpful.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by pp4me » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:08 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:25 pm
I propose this thread as a place to list and discuss proposed specific, concrete actions that our society could take to address systemic racism.

The more specific the better. For example, if you say, "Vote for politicians who are inclusive," that is not very specific. If you say, "Vote for politicians who will enact X," and tell us what X is, then that is much more helpful.
"systemic racism" isn't a very specific term to start with so how is anyone supposed to come up with specific actions to address it?
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by I Shrugged » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:11 pm

The system is not racist; I reject that from the get-go. It was once, no doubt. So I guess I have no suggestions. I really don't!

As to individuals, be the change you want to see. Over time racial harmony has improved tremendously. It will continue to improve, over time.

Wrong sub forum btw.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Xan » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:18 pm

Moved the subforum.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by stuper1 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:25 pm

Sorry, I must have gotten in a hurry and put it in the wrong place. I'm still interested to hear what specific actions anybody would care to propose that we as a society could take to deal with "systemic racism" or "non-systemic racism" or "racism" or whatever anybody wants to call it.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by pp4me » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:53 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:11 pm
The system is not racist; I reject that from the get-go. It was once, no doubt. So I guess I have no suggestions. I really don't!

As to individuals, be the change you want to see. Over time racial harmony has improved tremendously. It will continue to improve, over time.

Wrong sub forum btw.
You can even leave off the word "systemic". "racism" is a meaningless term as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by stuper1 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:06 pm

So, back when the US wouldn't let black people vote, you wouldn't consider that as "systemic racism"?
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:59 pm

End Affirmative Action
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:21 pm

Mark is on the right track. There are other government programs that systematically bar specific races from participating, for instance, the Minority Business Development Agency ("We work throughout the Nation to link minority-owned businesses with the capital, contracts, and markets they need to grow. We advocate and promote minority-owned business with elected officials, policy makers, and business leaders.").

So the concrete action there would be to go through all government laws and regulations and remove all references to race with respect to gaining access to a program. Or just disbanding entire agencies if their whole purpose is based on qualifying people based on their race. Of course, all of us plebs would mostly just be waiting for a politician serious about rooting out real systemic racism.

Outside of government, colleges are a big offender. In that video dualstow posted, John McWhorter said flat-out that he wasn't as qualified as the other people who applied, but they hired him because he was black, making it sound like they have a system in place to make hiring decisions based on race.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:32 pm

You know, this thread piqued my curiosity so I had to check it. Prisons apparently sort prisoners based on race (at least in California):
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled last week that California’s policy of segregating incoming inmates by race should be scrutinized closely because otherwise it could “undermine our unceasing efforts to eradicate racial prejudice from our criminal justice system.”

But I’m a white man who served 37 months at San Quentin (for the manufacture of methamphetamine) and eight months more (on a parole violation) at the Sierra Conservation Center in Jamestown, and I think that the court is well intentioned but misguided.

California prisons separate blacks, whites, Latinos and “others” because the truth is that mixing races and ethnic groups in cells would be extremely dangerous for inmates.
link
EDIT: that example of systemic racism was ended in California in 2014 according to The Guardian (didn't fact check it).
Last edited by Kriegsspiel on Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:33 pm

Krieg, exactly.

And remove the "race" question from every form, application or questionnaire.
I could argue that we don't even need it for medical reasons anymore.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:39 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:32 pm
You know, this thread piqued my curiosity so I had to check it. Prisons apparently sort prisoners based on race (at least in California):
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled last week that California’s policy of segregating incoming inmates by race should be scrutinized closely because otherwise it could “undermine our unceasing efforts to eradicate racial prejudice from our criminal justice system.”

But I’m a white man who served 37 months at San Quentin (for the manufacture of methamphetamine) and eight months more (on a parole violation) at the Sierra Conservation Center in Jamestown, and I think that the court is well intentioned but misguided.

California prisons separate blacks, whites, Latinos and “others” because the truth is that mixing races and ethnic groups in cells would be extremely dangerous for inmates.
link
Hard to argue with that - and it raises questions about the premise of the thread.
Why is eliminating systemic racism a goal?

In Krieg's example it would undeniably result in increased prison murder rates.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:42 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:33 pm
I could argue that we don't even need it for medical reasons anymore.
I'd think that would help them diagnose or determine if they need to test for sickle-cell or Tay-Sachs or other population-specific diseases, but I could be mistaken.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by whatchamacallit » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:55 pm

I agree on removing race as category.
Using it does at very least separate subconsciously.

Police could use the complexion as identifying trait for suspects.
Light
Medium
Dark
Those traits don't nessecarilly give away the race and you may really not be able to tell sometimes.

I can't think of any where else you need to know race.

I guess may be more now with DNA tests but how many people really know their race history these days in America.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:16 pm

whatchamacallit wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:55 pm
I agree on removing race as category.
Using it does at very least separate subconsciously.

Police could use the complexion as identifying trait for suspects.
Light
Medium
Dark
Those traits don't nessecarilly give away the race and you may really not be able to tell sometimes.
It's not systematic racism to notice what race someone is* and then say it, but if, say, you had different punishments that were codified based on races then I'd call it systematic.


* I'm reminded of that scene in The Office, where Michael asked Oscar, "is there a term besides "Mexican" that you prefer? Something less offensive?"

* Also, this bit from Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, a classic O0
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Xan » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:24 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:32 pm
You know, this thread piqued my curiosity so I had to check it. Prisons apparently sort prisoners based on race (at least in California):
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled last week that California’s policy of segregating incoming inmates by race should be scrutinized closely because otherwise it could “undermine our unceasing efforts to eradicate racial prejudice from our criminal justice system.”

But I’m a white man who served 37 months at San Quentin (for the manufacture of methamphetamine) and eight months more (on a parole violation) at the Sierra Conservation Center in Jamestown, and I think that the court is well intentioned but misguided.

California prisons separate blacks, whites, Latinos and “others” because the truth is that mixing races and ethnic groups in cells would be extremely dangerous for inmates.
link
EDIT: that example of systemic racism was ended in California in 2014 according to The Guardian (didn't fact check it).
Another interesting part in one of those McWhorter videos was when he discussed that desegregation wasn't necessarily a win for blacks. For example, there was a thriving black middle class that ran many stores and other establishments. Once the white stores (and whatever else) was open to blacks too, then the black middle class kind of faded.

Then he looked at the forced busing in the 1960/70s. He says that black kids being injected into schools which didn't really want them was in large part responsible for them getting the idea that participating in school is for white kids, that black kids who try in school are "acting white". He laughs that we now call Joe Biden a racist for being against such busing.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by vnatale » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:30 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:24 pm


Another interesting part in one of those McWhorter videos was when he discussed that desegregation wasn't necessarily a win for blacks. For example, there was a thriving black middle class that ran many stores and other establishments. Once the white stores (and whatever else) was open to blacks too, then the black middle class kind of faded.

Not that long after Jackie Robinson broke the Major League Baseball color barrier the thriving Negro baseball leagues ceased to exist.

I'd consider that an overall win for the blacks. The blacks themselves voted with their money by no longer being willing to support those leagues plus the most talented Negro league players were now in the major league pipeline.

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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:36 pm

I'm not really making a values judgement, just mentioning things that systematically do racism right now.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:07 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:42 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:33 pm
I could argue that we don't even need it for medical reasons anymore.
I'd think that would help them diagnose or determine if they need to test for sickle-cell or Tay-Sachs or other population-specific diseases, but I could be mistaken.
Those were some of the last remaining reasons. But a simple blood test for the specific issue they are worried about would be more reliable than the patient's impression of what race they are.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:17 pm

And have you heard my theory about redheads and pain killers?
...
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:54 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:07 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:42 pm
Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:33 pm
I could argue that we don't even need it for medical reasons anymore.
I'd think that would help them diagnose or determine if they need to test for sickle-cell or Tay-Sachs or other population-specific diseases, but I could be mistaken.
Those were some of the last remaining reasons. But a simple blood test for the specific issue they are worried about would be more reliable than the patient's impression of what race they are.
I'd think it would make the task of creating the simple blood test easier if they weed out unaffected populations. Further, medical people had to figure out what populations were affected in the first place.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:55 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:17 pm
And have you heard my theory about redheads and pain killers?
...
I've heard of A theory, maybe not yours. If it involves pale redheads with green eyes I'll need some visuals.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:09 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:17 pm
And have you heard my theory about redheads and pain killers?
...
My granddaughter is a redhead. She can eat horseradish by the spoonful, never blink, never have eyes water, never have face turn red, and never get the few seconds of "my head feels like it is exploding" rush. Go figure.

What is your theory?

.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by WiseOne » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:10 pm

Back to the topic at hand...

I agree with those who suggested eliminating affirmative action programs. It amounts to a type of "soft bigotry", because the underlying premise is that the favored minorities are assumed to be unable to make it on their own simply because of their race. That, to me, is the ultimate expression of racism. In fact - a friend of mine told me about how angry she was that her son was subjected to this in public schools in a very Democrat-run town - it was assumed that he couldn't perform to standard, when the problem actually was that he was becoming nearsighted. She responded by pulling him out and sending him to private school. He did fine there.

I would also suggest ending all welfare programs to non-disabled people (food stamps, housing aid, WIC, cash payments etc) and substituting community service jobs (picking up trash in public places e.g.) for people who can't find jobs in the private arena. These should pay less than minimum wage to motivate people to keep job hunting.

In recognition of some basic biology, I would also make some way to provide for child care in situations where all adults in the household are working. It shouldn't be free though - charges should be on a sliding scale based on income.

Another idea: set up grant funding to churches, universities and social groups to provide education and counseling in social & personal responsibility to black communities, and especially to children. After school programs for example. Something like the equivalent of Boy/Girl Scouts might be very useful, except without the paramilitary theme.
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Re: Concrete Actions to Address Systemic Racism

Post by pp4me » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:16 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:06 pm
So, back when the US wouldn't let black people vote, you wouldn't consider that as "systemic racism"?
Yes, that sounds like an excellent example but that problem has already been solved unless you believe the "voter suppression" narrative being pushed by a lot of Dems.

Judging from most of the posts in this thread the majority of posters seem to have a different definition of systemic racism than what you had in mind.
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