WiseOne wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:21 pm
There's a big jump in people suddenly freed from the need to live in expensive, crowded areas by the shift to remote work, which is now becoming a permanent trend:
All told, at one point in April, Americans were relocating at twice the pace they did a year earlier, according to Cuebiq, a data firm that tracks movement via mobile phones. They continued to move at an elevated rate through mid-May. Cuebiq’s tally includes any trips away from home that last at least three weeks, so it also captures some temporary movement, like people decamping to vacation homes and students moving home from college.
It’s too early to tell how many of these moves are permanent and how, in aggregate, new migration patterns might reshape the country. Some people who left big cities early in the pandemic are realizing they miss working from an office—or their companies miss them, and want them back in their cubicles. Others are staying put because they don’t know when their companies will make them come back.
Still, coronavirus-spurred moving could accelerate a shift already under way from dense, expensive cities to more affordable areas, including small cities and suburbs.
In places like Boise, Idaho, real-estate agents say people are finally breaking ties with the West Coast after years of waffling, and sometimes buying properties sight-unseen.
We had a similar discussion a while back, but as I recall there were some strict parameters. Given the trends in liberal cities that we all expect will lead to increased crime, high taxes, and general deterioration in quality of life, if you were willing and able to pull up stakes and move, what places would be on the Good list? There are some comments about this in the article and also the discussion that follows, if you have access to those.
Texas I assume should be on the list...
New Hampshire is high on my personal list, as is Alaska.
Florida is a popular choice, if you're a fan of hot humid weather.
Perhaps ironically, upstate New York is on the list. The Hudson Valley and Finger Lakes regions are gorgeous, and overall quite conservative.
If you could saw NYC off and push it into the ocean, NY would probably be a pretty good place to live. Short of that, I don't see it.
And I say this as someone who lived in NY for about a decade and liked the upstate region.
As for Texas, yes, that is good, but don't move to a big city; they are all run by incompetent and corrupt Democrats.
Some of the northern Dallas suburbs are pretty nice though.
New Hampshire is fine if you don't mind terrible weather, but it may not be much worse than New York in that regard.
Florida isn't bad either but make sure you consider how to deal with hurricanes.
I live in one of those North Texas Suburbs. People are moving here in droves but personally I don’t see the attraction. The weather is terrible. It is 10pm as I write this and the temp is 92 with a “feels like” of 100. The “feels like” during the day is 111 and that will last until October. North Texas is completely devoid of any beaches, mountains or such. It is pretty much all strips malls, chain stores and churches. Seriously if someone came here on vacation what on earth would you tell them to do? What is a must-see in Dallas? The economy does tend to be better than other states though.
Dallas isn't much of a tourist destination, and I agree the weather isn't great.
But I prefer North Texas weather to Northern weather; you don't have to shovel heat and your cars last a long time without road salt to eat them up. And as long as the A/C is working, who cares how hot it is outside?
Of course one of the reasons that the economy tends to be better is less taxation and onerous regulation. It's not perfect, but much better than the Northeastern states, Illinois, and California in particular. And because there's plenty of land, you don't need to be a multi-millionaire to own a house on some acreage, although not in the city or near-in suburbe.
Speaking of weather, my A/C is running but just barely; the main blower motor isn't working right so I had to shut off the second cooling stage until it is replaced, hopefully this week.
I live in one of those North Texas Suburbs. People are moving here in droves but personally I don’t see the attraction. The weather is terrible. It is 10pm as I write this and the temp is 92 with a “feels like” of 100. The “feels like” during the day is 111 and that will last until October. North Texas is completely devoid of any beaches, mountains or such. It is pretty much all strips malls, chain stores and churches. Seriously if someone came here on vacation what on earth would you tell them to do? What is a must-see in Dallas? The economy does tend to be better than other states though.
Major league sports teams? Of interest t to me, would be Dallas Mavericks and Texas Rangers. I assume there might be some top rated college basketball teams also?
And, I assume a lot of places that play rock music?
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
jalanlong wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:04 pm
I live in one of those North Texas Suburbs. People are moving here in droves but personally I don’t see the attraction. The weather is terrible. It is 10pm as I write this and the temp is 92 with a “feels like” of 100. The “feels like” during the day is 111 and that will last until October. North Texas is completely devoid of any beaches, mountains or such. It is pretty much all strips malls, chain stores and churches. Seriously if someone came here on vacation what on earth would you tell them to do? What is a must-see in Dallas? The economy does tend to be better than other states though.
Don't write ad copy for Texas, jalanlong! That sounds like my ultimate nightmare. I so much prefer cold/snow to heat that I've even contemplated ways to spend July and August in the southern hemisphere.
Tech, good luck with your air conditioner. If I were you I'd have a stack of backup plans for power outages (generator, solar, battery backup) plus at least one active/reserve window A/C that can be run on your power backups. Highly recommend a Keystone, they're dirt cheap and the one I got has outlasted AND worked better than its predecessor which cost 3x as much. You just have to drill a drain hole in the bottom if your area gets humid.
I live in one of those North Texas Suburbs. People are moving here in droves but personally I don’t see the attraction. The weather is terrible. It is 10pm as I write this and the temp is 92 with a “feels like” of 100. The “feels like” during the day is 111 and that will last until October. North Texas is completely devoid of any beaches, mountains or such. It is pretty much all strips malls, chain stores and churches. Seriously if someone came here on vacation what on earth would you tell them to do? What is a must-see in Dallas? The economy does tend to be better than other states though.
Work,Work.Work.
It all about the Benjamin's
My son gets a better Salary in and around Plano compared to where I live in TX.
Must see in Dallas, well you got me there.
Maybe Airports, Traffic.
jalanlong wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:04 pm
I live in one of those North Texas Suburbs. People are moving here in droves but personally I don’t see the attraction. The weather is terrible. It is 10pm as I write this and the temp is 92 with a “feels like” of 100. The “feels like” during the day is 111 and that will last until October. North Texas is completely devoid of any beaches, mountains or such. It is pretty much all strips malls, chain stores and churches. Seriously if someone came here on vacation what on earth would you tell them to do? What is a must-see in Dallas? The economy does tend to be better than other states though.
Don't write ad copy for Texas, jalanlong! That sounds like my ultimate nightmare. I so much prefer cold/snow to heat that I've even contemplated ways to spend July and August in the southern hemisphere.
Tech, good luck with your air conditioner. If I were you I'd have a stack of backup plans for power outages (generator, solar, battery backup) plus at least one active/reserve window A/C that can be run on your power backups. Highly recommend a Keystone, they're dirt cheap and the one I got has outlasted AND worked better than its predecessor which cost 3x as much. You just have to drill a drain hole in the bottom if your area gets humid.
The technician was just here to replace the motor. It seems to be working properly now.
As for backup plans, I was a Y2K prepper.
Accordingly, I have two generators that run on gasoline or propane.
I also have a GE window A/C unit, which I plugged in last night to test. It started up with no problems although I didn't check the cooling because I'd have to take it out of the box.
WiseOne wrote: ↑Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:33 am
Don't write ad copy for Texas, jalanlong! That sounds like my ultimate nightmare. I so much prefer cold/snow to heat that I've even contemplated ways to spend July and August in the southern hemisphere.
jalanlong wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:04 pm
I live in one of those North Texas Suburbs. People are moving here in droves but personally I don’t see the attraction. The weather is terrible. It is 10pm as I write this and the temp is 92 with a “feels like” of 100. The “feels like” during the day is 111 and that will last until October. North Texas is completely devoid of any beaches, mountains or such. It is pretty much all strips malls, chain stores and churches. Seriously if someone came here on vacation what on earth would you tell them to do? What is a must-see in Dallas? The economy does tend to be better than other states though.
If you're trying to keep your area from getting too crowded, mission accomplished.
Larry McMurtry's Texasville was on cable the other day and it looked pleasant, but perhaps those days are gone.
I live in one of those North Texas Suburbs. People are moving here in droves but personally I don’t see the attraction. The weather is terrible. It is 10pm as I write this and the temp is 92 with a “feels like” of 100. The “feels like” during the day is 111 and that will last until October. North Texas is completely devoid of any beaches, mountains or such. It is pretty much all strips malls, chain stores and churches. Seriously if someone came here on vacation what on earth would you tell them to do? What is a must-see in Dallas? The economy does tend to be better than other states though.
Work,Work.Work.
It all about the Benjamin's
My son gets a better Salary in and around Plano compared to where I live in TX.
Must see in Dallas, well you got me there.
Maybe Airports, Traffic.
I live and work in Plano. You are right, it is ALL about the economy. But some of that is offset by the skyrocketing price of housing. Homes in Texas cities were always considered inexpensive by big city standards. And sure, people moving here from California still believe they are getting a great deal on a house. But we are starting to creep into that price range that other big cities are in. Homes in my neighborhood that used to go for $200k are now selling for $400-450k. $500k if they are really renovated. An apartment that I rented 10 years ago for $800 a month is now $2000. Not quite Southern California prices yet but they are getting there...and with no beaches, mountains or nice weather to justify it. And property taxes are astronomical. A $300k house in Plano costs around $7500 in annual property taxes. The cost of living used to be one of the main draws to the area and I think in another 10 years that will be a thing of the past.
I live in one of those North Texas Suburbs. People are moving here in droves but personally I don’t see the attraction. The weather is terrible. It is 10pm as I write this and the temp is 92 with a “feels like” of 100. The “feels like” during the day is 111 and that will last until October. North Texas is completely devoid of any beaches, mountains or such. It is pretty much all strips malls, chain stores and churches. Seriously if someone came here on vacation what on earth would you tell them to do? What is a must-see in Dallas? The economy does tend to be better than other states though.
Work,Work.Work.
It all about the Benjamin's
My son gets a better Salary in and around Plano compared to where I live in TX.
Must see in Dallas, well you got me there.
Maybe Airports, Traffic.
I live and work in Plano. You are right, it is ALL about the economy. But some of that is offset by the skyrocketing price of housing. Homes in Texas cities were always considered inexpensive by big city standards. And sure, people moving here from California still believe they are getting a great deal on a house. But we are starting to creep into that price range that other big cities are in. Homes in my neighborhood that used to go for $200k are now selling for $400-450k. $500k if they are really renovated. An apartment that I rented 10 years ago for $800 a month is now $2000. Not quite Southern California prices yet but they are getting there...and with no beaches, mountains or nice weather to justify it. And property taxes are astronomical. A $300k house in Plano costs around $7500 in annual property taxes. The cost of living used to be one of the main draws to the area and I think in another 10 years that will be a thing of the past.
Property Tax is a Big issue I have with counties in TX. Counties/School Districts just figure out ways to raise more Taxes, on your property.
The Boom in values are amazing and unbelievable to watch.
My understanding is that housing prices have been rising for years in places all over the world, not just in Texas or even just the US. I suspect it has something to do with the interest rates across the world having been low for many years now.
Regarding the high property tax in Texas, at least be thankful that you guys have zero state income tax. Has anyone ever compared total state taxes (e.g., income tax plus property tax) in different states for different income brackets?
I wonder if the rise in popularity of remote work will eventually result in states competing with each other on tax rates as remote workers flock to the states with the lowest total taxes. People used to have to move where the jobs were, but with remote work the jobs are now everywhere.
Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:26 am
My understanding is that housing prices have been rising for years in places all over the world, not just in Texas or even just the US. I suspect it has something to do with the interest rates across the world having been low for many years now.
Regarding the high property tax in Texas, at least be thankful that you guys have zero state income tax. Has anyone ever compared total state taxes (e.g., income tax plus property tax) in different states for different income brackets?
I wonder if the rise in popularity of remote work will eventually result in states competing with each other on tax rates as remote workers flock to the states with the lowest total taxes. People used to have to move where the jobs were, but with remote work the jobs are now everywhere.
Tortoise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:26 am
My understanding is that housing prices have been rising for years in places all over the world, not just in Texas or even just the US. I suspect it has something to do with the interest rates across the world having been low for many years now.
Regarding the high property tax in Texas, at least be thankful that you guys have zero state income tax. Has anyone ever compared total state taxes (e.g., income tax plus property tax) in different states for different income brackets?
I wonder if the rise in popularity of remote work will eventually result in states competing with each other on tax rates as remote workers flock to the states with the lowest total taxes. People used to have to move where the jobs were, but with remote work the jobs are now everywhere.
That list is useful, but it's based on broad averages. The total tax bill could potentially look very different for each state depending on a person's income and the size of home/property they choose to own.
I spent a lot of time doing that a couple years ago. You really have to get into the weeds to figure this stuff out, though. For instance, in Michigan you can deduct money for heating your home in the winter. With local taxes especially, it's pretty much impossible to compare vast amounts of places, because local taxes are so different. You might look at one town and think their taxes are high compared to another one, but then find out it's because they include garbage and the other one doesn't. Stuff like that.
Some things surprised me, like how low California's income tax was if you don't make a lot of money. I think Vermont was also not as bad as I assumed it was. Arkansas has incredibly high income tax rates.
The difference between states is probably not relevant to where you want to live unless it's a toss up between NY and TN or whatever.
I'm about to finish up 2 weeks in Des Moines, Iowa. And, really, I have nothing but good things to say about this town.
I wouldn't live here full time, but if you are just checking the boxes...
- trendy
- riverfront
- parks
- cocktail bars and steak houses
- midwest farmer's daughters
- not as cheap as I would hope, but pretty cheap
- good experience at the car dealership
- good experience at the dermatologist. Sweet young thing took cash on the barrelhead and sliced me up with a plain old razor blade. Hell of a good job. I wish more people worked that way.
Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:47 pm
I'm about to finish up 2 weeks in Des Moines, Iowa. And, really, I have nothing but good things to say about this town.
I wouldn't live here full time, but if you are just checking the boxes...
- trendy
- riverfront
- parks
- cocktail bars and steak houses
- midwest farmer's daughters
- not as cheap as I would hope, but pretty cheap
- good experience at the car dealership
- good experience at the dermatologist. Sweet young thing took cash on the barrelhead and sliced me up with a plain old razor blade. Hell of a good job. I wish more people worked that way.
Try it in December and let us know how you like the frigid prairie weather.
I mention this because I went to school not too far from there, in a town that holds the record for the all-time low temperature in Illinois.
Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:04 pm
Try it in December and let us know how you like the frigid prairie weather.
I mention this because I went to school not too far from there, in a town that holds the record for the all-time low temperature in Illinois.
Yea, I did ask a few of the locals what winter was like and they were a bit non-committal...
My cousins grew up in Des Moines. We went out to visit them in the winter, and it was awesome. We played all day in the woods with (IIRC) 38ft of snow. Only one fatality.
Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:24 am
My cousins grew up in Des Moines. We went out to visit them in the winter, and it was awesome. We played all day in the woods with (IIRC) 38ft of snow. Only one fatality.
Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:24 am
My cousins grew up in Des Moines. We went out to visit them in the winter, and it was awesome. We played all day in the woods with (IIRC) 38ft of snow. Only one fatality.
