An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

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jalanlong
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by jalanlong » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:27 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:17 pm
The news and entertainment media and personalities are completely going along with this. I would guess that some of them would like to dissent, but they don't dare.
I hate to be one of those people that blames the media for everything that goes wrong but in this case i do think they shoulder a LOT of the blame for the past 4 years. When people on the right made fun of Obama in a mean-spirited way, the media was quick to tell everyone that they HAD to respect the office of the President. Then when Trump comes along, television programs like Steven Colbert, Samantha Bee and of course SNL spend their entire programs, night after night for almost 4 years mocking the president, calling him all sort of names and trying to demean the office as much as humanly possible. They have made it acceptable to say anything goes when you disagree politically with someone. I mean Samantha Bee called the President's wife a "feckless cunt" on television and the networks didn't blink an eye because it was Trump and apparently since he is often crass, they are allowed to be as well.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by jalanlong » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:39 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:31 pm
Then I have to ask all of the Trump/right leaning people here:

You just know Trump, and probably Pence want to call bullshit on how things are being handled. So why is there a vacuum of leadership there? Why do they defer to the task force, then either openly or covertly defy them?

Why not decide they are going to take a different tack? Assemble doctors who side with his thinking? He's done it in every other darn circumstance, he fires people left and right for not towing the line, etc.

Get docs who agree that masks are worthless and show the proof. Get ones who agree we have to isolate those at risk and everyone else go on with their lives. And so on.

Tech, others, why?? I actually would welcome this as well. But why isn't it happening? I was just in a meeting where every individual was of this opinion. So it definitely is widespread. Why is it not being done? Why instead dumb statements like if we test less we'll have less cases?
I agree but I am going to assume he does not do it because of the political fallout he would receive. This all happened so quickly that by the time we knew the extent of the shutdowns, the media, and by extension the American public, were already making heroes out of "experts" like Fauci. Some polls show that over 70% of Americans trust Fauci. If Trump were to fire him now he would take an unbelievable pounding from the media and establishment who have already labelled him as "anti-science".

I think even Trump is smart enough to know that even though he can be successful fighting the establishment at times, in this situation dealing with public health, firing the experts that the people have grown to like and filling their positions with his own experts would give the Democrats and media all the ammunition they need in an election year. If it were me I would do it anyway. Its not like he is going to get positive press by staying with Fauci. Might as well go down swinging!
Last edited by jalanlong on Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by jhogue » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:12 pm

@drudge.com:

Dr. Fauci touches his face, mask and glasses with his hands.
“Groucho Marx wrote:
A stock trader asked him, "Groucho, where do you put all your money?" Groucho was said to have replied, "In Treasury bonds", and the trader said, "You can't make much money on those." Groucho said, "You can if you have enough of them!"
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:29 am

sophie wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:10 pm
I'll chime in here....I also have suspected that masks are largely worthless, and there is certainly zero evidence in support of them.

We had to take an online course in how to don and doff PPE at the beginning of the pandemic. It is not at all easy to get it right and there is a good reason why training is necessary. I regard the mask as mainly a fashion statement.

This is relevant to this thread: if you don't toe the line in the US you can now officially be persecuted in many ways: you can be fired, victimized by violent thugs, singled out for ostracism, etc etc. We used to be able to say we live in a free society, but not anymore!!!
If masks are largely worthless, why do the operating room staff wear them? Serious question.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by pmward » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:18 am

Looks at the title of the thread. Looks at what it devolved into....

We really are a laughing stock to the whole world right now, and here it is openly on display for all to see. This is really what America is like these days ladies and gentleman. Aren't you all just itching to move here???
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by technovelist » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:28 am

pmward wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:18 am
Looks at the title of the thread. Looks at what it devolved into....

We really are a laughing stock to the whole world right now, and here it is openly on display for all to see. This is really what America is like these days ladies and gentleman. Aren't you all just itching to move here???
Apparently some people still want to move here even if they have to do it illegally. Why is that if it is so horrible?

As for legal migration, if the Democrats win there will be an exodus of people who don't want to live under tyranny and who have the means to leave and somewhere to go.

However, if Trump is re-elected, I'm sorry to say that rich Democrats won't leave, just as they didn't leave after he was elected last time. By the way, why haven't they left already if he is so horrible?
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by pmward » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:36 am

technovelist wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:28 am
pmward wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:18 am
Looks at the title of the thread. Looks at what it devolved into....

We really are a laughing stock to the whole world right now, and here it is openly on display for all to see. This is really what America is like these days ladies and gentleman. Aren't you all just itching to move here???
Apparently some people still want to move here even if they have to do it illegally. Why is that if it is so horrible?

As for legal migration, if the Democrats win there will be an exodus of people who don't want to live under tyranny and who have the means to leave and somewhere to go.

However, if Trump is re-elected, I'm sorry to say that rich Democrats won't leave, just as they didn't leave after he was elected last time. By the way, why haven't they left already if he is so horrible?
My case in point. I mention nothing about immigration, nothing about Democrats, nothing about politics whatsoever, and still get quoted with a political rant taking my comments totally out of context. You are proving my point. THIS EXACTLY is one small micro scale example of why and how U.S. society on a macro scale is devolving right now. Both sides are so incredibly insufferable right now.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by Cortopassi » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:42 am

pmward wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:18 am
Looks at the title of the thread. Looks at what it devolved into....

We really are a laughing stock to the whole world right now, and here it is openly on display for all to see. This is really what America is like these days ladies and gentleman. Aren't you all just itching to move here???
Here's what I've found. If tech and I sit down for a drink, for example, we will be cordial, have a heated discussion and respect, to some level, each other's opinion. (I hope!)

These message boards, social media and the press amplify differences of opinion 100x. It's impossible to get your demeanor, body language, and how you'd actually say the words across without it likely being misinterpreted to some extent. So I always read tech as yelling at everyone who doesn't love Trump and as being this crabby old white guy. He probably reads me as (fill in the blank). But if we got together, we'd likely find we have a lot in common, and just some differences of opinion which we wouldn't bring up very often.

I was in a meeting yesterday with a bunch of tech-type people, and instead of discussing work we talked masks, covid, Trump, etc. My boss would absolutely be a soulmate to tech, and I have known and worked with him for over 20 years. I love the guy. But every now and then we get into these discussions and both he and I get exasperated that we can't understand the other person's opinion. And then we laugh it off, drop it, and get back to work.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by jalanlong » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:35 am

pmward wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:18 am
Looks at the title of the thread. Looks at what it devolved into....

We really are a laughing stock to the whole world right now, and here it is openly on display for all to see. This is really what America is like these days ladies and gentleman. Aren't you all just itching to move here???

Actually this is a pretty civil discussion in my opinion. On Facebook this would have devolved into calling each other “Libtard” or “Trumpkin” already.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by l82start » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:27 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:35 am
pmward wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:18 am
Looks at the title of the thread. Looks at what it devolved into....

We really are a laughing stock to the whole world right now, and here it is openly on display for all to see. This is really what America is like these days ladies and gentleman. Aren't you all just itching to move here???

Actually this is a pretty civil discussion in my opinion. On Facebook this would have devolved into calling each other “Libtard” or “Trumpkin” already.
i agree this is pretty civil..

i think a lot of the amped up feeling American politics is generating right now is due to a combination of tectonic shifts that are occurring, and it being an election year..
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”

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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by technovelist » Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:01 pm

pmward wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:36 am
technovelist wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:28 am
pmward wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:18 am
Looks at the title of the thread. Looks at what it devolved into....

We really are a laughing stock to the whole world right now, and here it is openly on display for all to see. This is really what America is like these days ladies and gentleman. Aren't you all just itching to move here???
Apparently some people still want to move here even if they have to do it illegally. Why is that if it is so horrible?

As for legal migration, if the Democrats win there will be an exodus of people who don't want to live under tyranny and who have the means to leave and somewhere to go.

However, if Trump is re-elected, I'm sorry to say that rich Democrats won't leave, just as they didn't leave after he was elected last time. By the way, why haven't they left already if he is so horrible?
My case in point. I mention nothing about immigration, nothing about Democrats, nothing about politics whatsoever, and still get quoted with a political rant taking my comments totally out of context. You are proving my point. THIS EXACTLY is one small micro scale example of why and how U.S. society on a macro scale is devolving right now. Both sides are so incredibly insufferable right now.
I'm sorry, but I can't read the following in any way that isn't about immigration:
"This is really what America is like these days ladies and gentleman. Aren't you all just itching to move here???"

Please explain.
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Re: An outsiders perspective of the politcal turmoil

Post by sophie » Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:21 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:29 am
sophie wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:10 pm
I'll chime in here....I also have suspected that masks are largely worthless, and there is certainly zero evidence in support of them.

We had to take an online course in how to don and doff PPE at the beginning of the pandemic. It is not at all easy to get it right and there is a good reason why training is necessary. I regard the mask as mainly a fashion statement.

This is relevant to this thread: if you don't toe the line in the US you can now officially be persecuted in many ways: you can be fired, victimized by violent thugs, singled out for ostracism, etc etc. We used to be able to say we live in a free society, but not anymore!!!
If masks are largely worthless, why do the operating room staff wear them? Serious question.
You can't compare these two situations. In the OR, a surgical mask designed for the purpose is being worn by a trained person who is also wearing hair and shoe coverings, gloves, and gown while keeping hands above waist etc. And, your face is inches away from the inside of the patient. It's bacterial contamination of the surgical wound from your breath that the mask is protecting against. With COVID, you have random cloth items worn in all kinds of ways by untrained people, ostensibly for the purpose of preventing a viral exposure. Totally different.

BTW yes this is a pretty civil discussion but that's because everyone is essentially of the same mindset. The distance between the individual positions you see here is much smaller than that between, say, AOC and Ted Cruz. Here's how I see it: Trump pushed the conservative party to shift attention from the traditional talking-point issues of abortion and religion to economic and social issues. Everyone knew that nothing of any relevance would ever happen on the abortion and religion front, so the Republicans were always political wallflowers with little in the way of accomplishments since the Reagan tax cuts. The new focus on dealing with long-neglected issues such as immigration, offshoring, and global trade deals was a direct challenge to policy areas that the Democrats thought they had locked down for decades with virtually no opposition. At the same time, the Democrats have veered to an extreme left position bordering on fascism that frankly scares many people, and has certainly served to increase the fervor on the right.

So you could say Trump is polarizing, but not for personal reasons. It's because he has made the Republican party a political force to be reckoned with, and no one saw it coming.
Last edited by sophie on Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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