Roger Stone Freed by Trump

[vnatale]

Like WiseOne said, almost every president has had controversial pardons so why was this one the worse in the history of the country, perhaps the whole world, or even the universe and beyond?

TDS is the only explanation. The "most corrupt administration in history"? Gimme a break. We've had presidents who have lied us into wars. If the Durham investigation actually ends up with any indictments and Biden gets elected I predict he will pardon them too. And then his will be the new "most corrupt administration in history".

Which is exactly why I consider the last one to do so (Obama's predecessor) to STILL be ten times worse than Trump.

Vinny

[vnatale]

Along the lines of unrelated incidental findings that turn up in the process of a search/investigation....

What happened to Bill Clinton. Ken Starr was toiling endlessly to find something to charge him with in relation to the Whitewater real estate deal, and just happened to stumble on the Monica Lewinsky affair. That then became the subject of the investigation, down to the salacious little report about the cigar. Sounds like one might argue that this was an illegal bait & switch - and if it slips through the legality net, it certainly set a nasty precedent.

Since it's almost impossible to live life without running afoul of a law somewhere or other, it basically guarantees that if you're investigated long enough, you can rest assured you'll be charged with something. There is something seriously wrong with that in my book...instead of prosecution you actually have persecution. I don't doubt that a healthy dose of persecution was involved in the Trump Russia investigation charges.

Might I also use what you have above to support my statement that "Our justice system does NOT deliver justice"? Though my comments are directed towards our judiciary branch while your comments may be more directed towards "justice" in our political system? But, in the end, Stone was sentenced within our judiciary system.

Vinny

[Mountaineer]

I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."

In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

Vinny

Not attacking at all. I merely said the statement was interresing. I'm thinking you must have Stage 4 TDS, or wrote the script for the movie Minority Report. Must we all think in group step or be labeled as attack dogs by the really subversive progressive leftists (labels intended)?

I was NOT accusing you of "attacking" since you were merely quoting. My accusation of "attacking" was directed towards the Press Secretary. I've seen her in action numerous times now (sometimes the entire press conference) and your quote of her is her typical M.O. Basically deflect and obfuscate.

But from your response you were clearly attacking me. I don't think you left any doubt on that one.

Vinny

Maybe we are both a bit sensitive. I read your post as directed at me since you were responding to my post and did not say you were responding to the Press Secretary. Likewise, I don't quite see how you perceived I was attacking you, especially since I ended my post with a The TDS (a lot) and Minority Report (a little) comments were just how I see you based on your posts. Peace brother, there is sufficient madness in the country/world right now to go a long way without us pouring gasoline on to the flames. That's a 'cool' emoji in case you don't like the shortcuts to express emotions with text/email/forums. And that is laughter.

[pp4me]

Like WiseOne said, almost every president has had controversial pardons so why was this one the worse in the history of the country, perhaps the whole world, or even the universe and beyond?

TDS is the only explanation. The "most corrupt administration in history"? Gimme a break. We've had presidents who have lied us into wars. If the Durham investigation actually ends up with any indictments and Biden gets elected I predict he will pardon them too. And then his will be the new "most corrupt administration in history".

Which is exactly why I consider the last one to do so (Obama's predecessor) to STILL be ten times worse than Trump.

Vinny

I never made much of the Benghazi thing or the Fast and Furious thing but I thought the IRS targeting of conservative groups was straight out of the Nixon playbook. And if the Durham investigation goes where it looks like it might be going, Obama will turn out to be just as corrupt as many of his predecessors.

Even though I only voted for him the first time around, I think they should take Obama's Nobel Peace Prize and give it to Jimmy Carter if you really want to give it to a U.S. president.

[flyingpylon]

Gregg Jarrett:
Trump right to commute Roger Stone’s sentence – Stone committed no crime, was framed by Mueller

Stone was convicted for “process crimes” that simply could not have occurred without the bogus Russian collusion investigation. That’s different than the previously mentioned cocaine example, and it’s different than the Monica Lewinsky example. Those occurred independently but were discovered during the primary investigation.

I’m not making a call on whether Trump should have commuted Stone’s sentence, but he clearly has the right to. In the interest of serving justice, it doesn’t seem right for the government to be able to cook up an investigation and then turn the screws on people hoping they’ll slip up or fabricate stories to save themselves.

[vnatale]

I thought this part of the statement by the Press Secretary was interesting:

"Mr. Stone was charged by the same prosecutors from the Mueller Investigation tasked with finding evidence of collusion with Russia. Because no such evidence exists, however, they could not charge him for any collusion-related crime. Instead, they charged him for his conduct during their investigation. The simple fact is that if the Special Counsel had not been pursuing an absolutely baseless investigation, Mr. Stone would not be facing time in prison.

"In addition to charging Mr. Stone with alleged crimes arising solely from their own improper investigation, the Mueller prosecutors also took pains to make a public and shameful spectacle of his arrest. Mr. Stone is a 67-year-old man, with numerous medical conditions, who had never been convicted of another crime. But rather than allow him to surrender himself, they used dozens of FBI agents with automatic weapons and tactical equipment, armored vehicles, and an amphibious unit to execute a pre-dawn raid of his home, where he was with his wife of many years. Notably, CNN cameras were present to broadcast these events live to the world, even though they swore they were not notified—it was just a coincidence that they were there together with the FBI early in the morning."

In other words, attack all the irrelevant sideline issues rather than addressing one single issue that Ad Orientem addressed above.

Vinny

Not attacking at all. I merely said the statement was interresing. I'm thinking you must have Stage 4 TDS, or wrote the script for the movie Minority Report. Must we all think in group step or be labeled as attack dogs by the really subversive progressive leftists (labels intended)?

I was NOT accusing you of "attacking" since you were merely quoting. My accusation of "attacking" was directed towards the Press Secretary. I've seen her in action numerous times now (sometimes the entire press conference) and your quote of her is her typical M.O. Basically deflect and obfuscate.

But from your response you were clearly attacking me. I don't think you left any doubt on that one.

Vinny

Maybe we are both a bit sensitive. I read your post as directed at me since you were responding to my post and did not say you were responding to the Press Secretary. Likewise, I don't quite see how you perceived I was attacking you, especially since I ended my post with a The TDS (a lot) and Minority Report (a little) comments were just how I see you based on your posts. Peace brother, there is sufficient madness in the country/world right now to go a long way without us pouring gasoline on to the flames. That's a 'cool' emoji in case you don't like the shortcuts to express emotions with text/email/forums. And that is laughter.

Okay, I accept the "figurative" peace pipe from you!

Vinny

[vnatale]

Like WiseOne said, almost every president has had controversial pardons so why was this one the worse in the history of the country, perhaps the whole world, or even the universe and beyond?

TDS is the only explanation. The "most corrupt administration in history"? Gimme a break. We've had presidents who have lied us into wars. If the Durham investigation actually ends up with any indictments and Biden gets elected I predict he will pardon them too. And then his will be the new "most corrupt administration in history".

Which is exactly why I consider the last one to do so (Obama's predecessor) to STILL be ten times worse than Trump.

Vinny

I never made much of the Benghazi thing or the Fast and Furious thing but I thought the IRS targeting of conservative groups was straight out of the Nixon playbook. And if the Durham investigation goes where it looks like it might be going, Obama will turn out to be just as corrupt as many of his predecessors.

Even though I only voted for him the first time around, I think they should take Obama's Nobel Peace Prize and give it to Jimmy Carter if you really want to give it to a U.S. president.

I think Jimmy Carter is our only president to NOT capitalize monetarily as an ex-President since President Truman, another decent person who basically lived his principles all his life - pre-President, as President, post-President.

Vinny

[Mountaineer]

[/quote]

I think Jimmy Carter is our only president to NOT capitalize monetarily as an ex-President since President Truman, another decent person who basically lived his principles all his life - pre-President, as President, post-President.

Vinny
[/quote]

Carter - decent person, crappy President.

Truman - decent person, good President. My opinion. I thoroughly enjoyed the book Countdown 1945 by Chris Wallace. Gave me an even better appreciation for Truman and all he had to deal with and make tough decisions about.

[Ad Orientem]

The law and order president...

https://youtu.be/p00fxoDpaIo

[vnatale]

I think Jimmy Carter is our only president to NOT capitalize monetarily as an ex-President since President Truman, another decent person who basically lived his principles all his life - pre-President, as President, post-President.

Vinny
[/quote]

Carter - decent person, crappy President.

Truman - decent person, good President. My opinion. I thoroughly enjoyed the book Countdown 1945 by Chris Wallace. Gave me an even better appreciation for Truman and all he had to deal with and make tough decisions about.
[/quote]

I always catch all five Sunday news shows, listening to each of them twice. One of them is Fox News Sunday. I always considered Chris Wallace my favorite conservative media person. He asks the tough questions of all, playing no favorites.

He's mentioned that book a few times on his shows. I will definitely be reading it at some point. Cannot tell you what year, though.

Vinny

[shekels]

The law and order president...

https://youtu.be/p00fxoDpaIo

There always seems to be an Agenda.
So pick your Fascism and enjoy life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfsoyRXs-2o

[I Shrugged]

At least Trump had the guts to do the commutation now and not on his last day in office. The voters can have a say about it.

Unlike, say, the pardon of Marc Rich.