Car ownership vs. Rideshare

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WiseOne
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Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by WiseOne » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:44 am

I've been ruminating about whether the costs and headache of car ownership is really worth it. Since rideshare services are now plentiful and super convenient, it is worth considering the financial tradeoffs - has anybody done that?

This wouldn't be worth considering if you do a lot of long distance driving. I'd mostly use it for local trips the majority of which is traveling to/from my mother's house since I'm basically her caregiver. Also, you have to consider that blue-state local governments are on a nonstop crusade to destroy Uber and Lyft. I think in New York those efforts have been successfully contained, but if you live in California you should probably not count on those companies sticking around.

Cost of car ownership for me, including amortized purchase price, insurance, maintenance, and parking costs, would be something like $5500/year. This doesn't include tolls or parking tickets. The round trip with Uber or Lyft costs $100 (with tip), which includes tolls. My Amex card has a 3% cash back deal on rideshares, plus I use Uber Cash to get another 5% discount. Subtract the 8% and the tolls, and you get net cost of ~$80/trip.

The cost of the car would be equivalent to 68 rideshare round trips to my mom's house per year, which is one trip every 5.4 days. Some other mitigating factors:
- I have the option to reduce some trip costs by taking a minibus part of the way and Uber the rest of the way, reducing one-way cost to about $10 at the cost of increasing trip time from ~30 minutes to ~1 hour.
- For long trips I can borrow my mother's car, or rent a car. Car rentals would of course add to the cost plus they're rather inconvenient. I discussed with my mother and she's ok with my borrowing her car for a couple of days. This would leave her without transportation but that's probably a good thing...she really shouldn't be driving.
- Headaches - there is a large sunk cost of time in car ownership, plus driving in traffic can be stressful. This is worse for me since keeping a car parked on the street in NYC also requires time and effort. All that goes away with a rideshare.

So I'm leaning toward going the rideshare route and keeping track of the costs. It occurs to me that for most people, rideshares may also be a better way to go than car ownership in this day and age of remote work. What do you all think about that? If I lived in a suburb where daily errands could be run for a lot less than $100 round trip, I'd give this serious consideration.
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jalanlong
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by jalanlong » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:43 pm

https://usaherald.com/shark-tank-star-k ... ownership/

Kevin O'Leary seconds your thoughts I thought this was a great idea when I read about it a year or so ago. But alas I have dogs so it wouldn't work for me.
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Dieter
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Dieter » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:41 pm

I wonder how long until the costs go up. I believe not profitable. And potential for costs to go up as there are changes to how driver's are treated (independent contractor vs employee).

Note: not wanting to turn this into a political discussion, but that IMO is something to consider longer term from a purely cost perspective.
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:31 pm

I sold my vehicle when I was living in a major city. I rode the city bus, Greyhound, Amtrak, a bike, and rented a car to drive home occasionally. All my friends owned cars so if we wanted to do something farther away I could just ride with them and throw them some gas money. Costs were a bit under what I'm spending now to drive a car ($20/mo less, to be exact), but I expect this will even out a bit more when some of the routine maintenance items amortize out a bit more. Where I live now going car-free is the worse option.

So yea, some situations are conducive to being car free, while others aren't, in both an economic sense and a lifestyle sense.
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I Shrugged
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:38 pm

WiseOne, I'm making an assumption that you are reasonably well off.

If so, do whichever you feel makes your life better. I wouldn't use this decision as the one to try to win a Boglehead contest with. If you really would enjoy having a car but it costs you $1500 more a year, so what. You're earning your money to spend it on something.

Now if you are scratching to make ends meet, forget what I said.
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:21 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:38 pm
WiseOne, I'm making an assumption that you are reasonably well off.

If so, do whichever you feel makes your life better. I wouldn't use this decision as the one to try to win a Boglehead contest with. If you really would enjoy having a car but it costs you $1500 more a year, so what. You're earning your money to spend it on something.

Now if you are scratching to make ends meet, forget what I said.
I get what you're saying, but I don't like how you're saying it ;D Just because you can afford to do something doesn't seem like a good criteria for doing it. Especially the bold part. That's how I thought earlier in life; I thought about money like resources in a strategy game. You get the resources in order to buy something as soon as you have enough, there's no point in saving them.

I'd rather make smart choices so that I can spend it on investments so that I don't have to work my whole life. Living in such a productive time and place, we're pretty much all able to make Keynes' "15 hour workweek" a reality.
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WiseOne
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by WiseOne » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:31 pm

Thanks for the Shark Tank link! It referred to a more comprehensive Nerd Wallet article showing that Uber/Lyft is generally cheaper than owning a car, and that's one of the goals in fact:

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/insuran ... lyft-uber/

For me - I'm not as sure about the costs, but Uber/Lyft would be WAY more convenient. Keeping a car parked in NYC is an art that requires considerable time and effort. I know all the tricks, and some of them aren't going to work well with my job (e.g. double parking and sitting in your car for two hours during the weekly street cleaning time). And there's the crime factor...cars are getting stolen and broken into more often.

I'm not too worried about local governments forcing Uber & Lyft to make their drivers employees rather than contractors. First of all the drivers don't WANT to be employees, at least not the ones I've talked to. Second, Uber is willing to fight this to the hilt. They will win in California.

The reason that cities like NYC are trying to wipe out Uber is that they don't want the competition to yellow taxis. Taxi medallions used to be worth hundreds of thousands, which is all income to the city. Now they're worth nothing. Why would a driver pay for a taxi medallion when they can drive for Uber without having to pay a cent for the privilege?

regarding my mom....that's exactly the plan, but she is absolutely adamant that her memory is just fine etc. It's a very difficult situation. I can't take her car without arranging for a home health aide, and she won't hear of that. Hopefully I can work that miracle before a crisis happens.
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:40 pm

It sounds like owning a car isn't for you.
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by boglerdude » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:05 am

+ getting your head caved in or caving someone else's in. I rolled a car down a cliff.

Then someone pushed my last car over a hillside while it was parked.

US bank cash+ has 5% uber/lyft. Add yourself to moms policy and offer to pay the insurance and repairs in exchange for more use. & you might find you're capable of walking further than you think.

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewto ... 5#p5462805
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:42 am

boglerdude wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:05 am
+ getting your head caved in or caving someone else's in. I rolled a car down a cliff.

Then someone pushed my last car over a hillside while it was parked.
Tell us more :)
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:39 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:40 pm
It sounds like owning a car isn't for you.
I've lived in NYC, although not in Manhattan.
You couldn't pay me enough to own a car there.
Of course at this point you couldn't pay me enough to live there at all, but that's a different topic. :D
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by boglerdude » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:57 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:42 am
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:05 am
+ getting your head caved in or caving someone else's in. I rolled a car down a cliff.

Then someone pushed my last car over a hillside while it was parked.
Tell us more :)
Well, I dramatized my post and I deserve to pay for that. So ill write it up in the next few days. I do love hearing every detail of how car and airplane accidents happen.
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Xan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:48 am

boglerdude wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:57 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:42 am
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:05 am
+ getting your head caved in or caving someone else's in. I rolled a car down a cliff.

Then someone pushed my last car over a hillside while it was parked.
Tell us more :)
Well, I dramatized my post and I deserve to pay for that. So ill write it up in the next few days. I do love hearing every detail of how car and airplane accidents happen.
Agreed for sure. The detailed reports we get of plane crashes are great. It's a shame that we almost never get the same for car crashes. It's just a lot of "he lost control of the vehicle". WHY? Give us something we can learn from.
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:04 am

Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:48 am
boglerdude wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:57 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:42 am
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:05 am
+ getting your head caved in or caving someone else's in. I rolled a car down a cliff.

Then someone pushed my last car over a hillside while it was parked.
Tell us more :)
Well, I dramatized my post and I deserve to pay for that. So ill write it up in the next few days. I do love hearing every detail of how car and airplane accidents happen.
Agreed for sure. The detailed reports we get of plane crashes are great. It's a shame that we almost never get the same for car crashes. It's just a lot of "he lost control of the vehicle". WHY? Give us something we can learn from.
Cars don't have black boxes and cockpit voice recorders.
Maybe that's why.
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Xan
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Xan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:10 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:04 am
Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:48 am
boglerdude wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:57 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:42 am
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:05 am
+ getting your head caved in or caving someone else's in. I rolled a car down a cliff.

Then someone pushed my last car over a hillside while it was parked.
Tell us more :)
Well, I dramatized my post and I deserve to pay for that. So ill write it up in the next few days. I do love hearing every detail of how car and airplane accidents happen.
Agreed for sure. The detailed reports we get of plane crashes are great. It's a shame that we almost never get the same for car crashes. It's just a lot of "he lost control of the vehicle". WHY? Give us something we can learn from.
Cars don't have black boxes and cockpit voice recorders.
Maybe that's why.
I bet a lot of the time there's more known than gets out. Just as a for instance, say a driver wasn't paying attention and a front wheel drifted off the edge of the road. Did he panic and overcorrect? An accident investigator could tell us that after the fact without relying on any witness remembering/admitting anything.
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:14 am

Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:10 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:04 am
Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:48 am
boglerdude wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:57 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:42 am
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:05 am
+ getting your head caved in or caving someone else's in. I rolled a car down a cliff.

Then someone pushed my last car over a hillside while it was parked.
Tell us more :)
Well, I dramatized my post and I deserve to pay for that. So ill write it up in the next few days. I do love hearing every detail of how car and airplane accidents happen.
Agreed for sure. The detailed reports we get of plane crashes are great. It's a shame that we almost never get the same for car crashes. It's just a lot of "he lost control of the vehicle". WHY? Give us something we can learn from.
Cars don't have black boxes and cockpit voice recorders.
Maybe that's why.
I bet a lot of the time there's more known than gets out. Just as a for instance, say a driver wasn't paying attention and a front wheel drifted off the edge of the road. Did he panic and overcorrect? An accident investigator could tell us that after the fact without relying on any witness remembering/admitting anything.
It probably would be possible to tell a lot more than we do find out, but it's a lot of work to reconstruct an accident, and who would pay for it?
Of course I may be wrong that there aren't any black boxes in cars, given all the computerization they have in them now.
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Xan
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Re: Car ownership vs. Rideshare

Post by Xan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:36 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:14 am
Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:10 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:04 am
Xan wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:48 am
boglerdude wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:57 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:42 am
boglerdude wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:05 am
+ getting your head caved in or caving someone else's in. I rolled a car down a cliff.

Then someone pushed my last car over a hillside while it was parked.
Tell us more :)
Well, I dramatized my post and I deserve to pay for that. So ill write it up in the next few days. I do love hearing every detail of how car and airplane accidents happen.
Agreed for sure. The detailed reports we get of plane crashes are great. It's a shame that we almost never get the same for car crashes. It's just a lot of "he lost control of the vehicle". WHY? Give us something we can learn from.
Cars don't have black boxes and cockpit voice recorders.
Maybe that's why.
I bet a lot of the time there's more known than gets out. Just as a for instance, say a driver wasn't paying attention and a front wheel drifted off the edge of the road. Did he panic and overcorrect? An accident investigator could tell us that after the fact without relying on any witness remembering/admitting anything.
It probably would be possible to tell a lot more than we do find out, but it's a lot of work to reconstruct an accident, and who would pay for it?
Of course I may be wrong that there aren't any black boxes in cars, given all the computerization they have in them now.
I'm not saying it needs to be done for every accident, but it certainly is done for some, and it would be nice for there to be a public report. Even if it were anonymized or something.
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