Natural Gas Moratorium?

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vnatale
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Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:02 pm

Is anyone else currently experiencing or have experienced a natural gas moratorium?

This is an article from my local newspaper from two years ago which details how the local natural gas company has had a moratorium for any new users since December 2014. That moratorium has continued to this day and means that since December 2014 there have been no new hookups for any businesses or residences.

https://www.recorder.com/Berkshire-Gas- ... e-21700389

I don't think natural gas has ever been an option for my house as I don't believe my area is served by natural gas.

Since I bought my house in April 1982 I've heated with oil. I replaced the existing ancient furnace by a new one in 1998, 22 years ago. That's generally past its life but over the last several years it has seemed that all its major parts have been replaced. However, it looks like my, maybe, 70 or so year old oil tank may need to be replaced.

My alternatives are to replace it and continue with oil. Or, change to propane. I have a young neighbor across the street from me who works for a propane supplier and also sells propane on his property. That would all be quite convenient.

How do each of you heat and have you ever switched from one source to another?

I am NOT into heating with either wood or pellets. When I want heat I want to just turn on a switch with no work involved in getting that heat. I scrimp in too many other areas to also have to do "work" to get my heat.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:09 pm

I've never heard of a moratorium on new customers, weird. I have gas heat, but I'd really like a woodstove as backup/supplemental heat. Ideally with my own woodlot. One of those big propane tanks doesn't seem bad, either, especially if I was out in a rural area instead of in town where utility interruptions get fixed pretty quickly.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:34 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:09 pm
I've never heard of a moratorium on new customers, weird. I have gas heat, but I'd really like a woodstove as backup/supplemental heat. Ideally with my own woodlot. One of those big propane tanks doesn't seem bad, either, especially if I was out in a rural area instead of in town where utility interruptions get fixed pretty quickly.
At least you confirmed that having a moratorium is highly unusual.

I do have a propane generator. I had been deciding whether the propane or gas version. What convinced me was one of the Amazon reviewers who described the experience of that major hurricane in New Jersey when Obama was president and Christie was governor.

He stated that there were lines and lines and lines to get gasoline at gas stations. But you just walked in and out to get propane. That would would be close to the circumstances under which I'd have to be buying fuel.

I think I bought mine three or four years ago and have not yet had to use it. I guess I should do the good thing this year to at least run it once and re-familiarize myself with how to connect it to my electrical panel.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:54 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:08 pm
When I was growing up in a nearby suburb in the 60s, we had oil heat. My parents switched to natural gas bc it was cheaper and more convenient. I'm pretty sure virtually everyone around here uses natural gas these days.
I had an oil tank at my house in Portland until I sold it in 2013. The original octopus coal furnace was upgraded to run off of oil sometime in the 30's. I liked the idea of having a 500 gallon fuel oil tank in the back yard that I could run a 3 fuel generator from if I ever needed it.

The furnace worked great. It was as big as a truck and would have easily disposed of door to door salesmen.
Inefficient as hell and cost a fortune to run. The buyer replaced it immediately. What a loss.
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by Hal » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:05 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:09 pm
I've never heard of a moratorium on new customers, weird. I have gas heat, but I'd really like a woodstove as backup/supplemental heat. Ideally with my own woodlot. One of those big propane tanks doesn't seem bad, either, especially if I was out in a rural area instead of in town where utility interruptions get fixed pretty quickly.
If you are in the country, I highly recommend a wood stove and make sure you get it plumbed into your hot water service.
The number of times it saved us during power outages was huge.

Remember you can always get a truck load of coal if you are near a mine. MUCH easier than splitting wood by hand. Still, it kept me fit :)
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:17 am

Hal wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:05 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:09 pm
I've never heard of a moratorium on new customers, weird. I have gas heat, but I'd really like a woodstove as backup/supplemental heat. Ideally with my own woodlot. One of those big propane tanks doesn't seem bad, either, especially if I was out in a rural area instead of in town where utility interruptions get fixed pretty quickly.
If you are in the country, I highly recommend a wood stove and make sure you get it plumbed into your hot water service.
The number of times it saved us during power outages was huge.

Remember you can always get a truck load of coal if you are near a mine. MUCH easier than splitting wood by hand. Still, it kept me fit :)
INDEED

I really like the concept of heating your water and house from the same heat source. I think I first read about it in The Resilient Farm And Homestead by Falk. I've been watching a bunch of earthship videos recently, and the idea of really well-insulated or bermed construction that only needs gentle nudges in either direction to be comfortable is interesting. A few geothermal tubes and maybe a window unit in the summer, a small woodstove in the winter.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:39 am

We switched from propane to natural gas about 16 1/2 years ago. No difference in house comfort as that mainly depends on what type furnace you have. Big difference in heating bill for us - significantly lower with natural gas, but that depends on pricing in your area. Natural gas is more convenient as long as the supply lines remain intact. Our propane supplier was quite reliable also, came and refilled the underground storage tank automatically; again, that is likely dependent on who you choose for a supplier. I'd say that natural gas might be a tad safer but that is an arguable point - propane is heavier than air, natural gas is lighter. A propane leak in a basement with a water heater flame could be problematic as you might not smell a leak quickly as you would with natural gas, the heavy propane gas could accumulate to a depth sufficient to reach the water heater flame .... and then boom! Something to consider.

We had oil heat in a previous home (late 1970s). Dirtier, smellier, more costly to PM or repair the furnace. Oil tank was located in the basement and they had to refill via a hose through a basement window. Always messy. But oil was cheaper than electric resistance heating, and heat pumps were not really great back then from what I was told.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by Hal » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:56 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:17 am
Hal wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:05 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:09 pm
I've never heard of a moratorium on new customers, weird. I have gas heat, but I'd really like a woodstove as backup/supplemental heat. Ideally with my own woodlot. One of those big propane tanks doesn't seem bad, either, especially if I was out in a rural area instead of in town where utility interruptions get fixed pretty quickly.
If you are in the country, I highly recommend a wood stove and make sure you get it plumbed into your hot water service.
The number of times it saved us during power outages was huge.

Remember you can always get a truck load of coal if you are near a mine. MUCH easier than splitting wood by hand. Still, it kept me fit :)
INDEED

I really like the concept of heating your water and house from the same heat source. I think I first read about it in The Resilient Farm And Homestead by Falk. I've been watching a bunch of earthship videos recently, and the idea of really well-insulated or bermed construction that only needs gentle nudges in either direction to be comfortable is interesting. A few geothermal tubes and maybe a window unit in the summer, a small woodstove in the winter.
Hi Kriegsspiel or any one else interested,

Let me know if you want any info on setting up a house/farm. I did a Horticulture and a Permaculture (Permanent Agriculture) series of courses about 25 years back and may still have the notes in the back of the garage. The permaculture was two week residential course (ie sleeping in shearers quarters) with other farmers; money well spent.

If you have those courses in the US, make sure they cater to farmers and not fringe "tree huggers" ;D

PS: My Grandmother knew almost everything I learnt. She ran her farm prior to all the chemicals and machinery coming in. Oh well, nothing new under the sun.

PPS: Think I found American copy of notes. Have not read them. Use at your own risk ;D
http://tcpermaculture.com/docs/Introduc ... llison.pdf
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:51 pm

Hell yea, Hal.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by vnatale » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:20 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:39 am
We switched from propane to natural gas about 16 1/2 years ago. No difference in house comfort as that mainly depends on what type furnace you have. Big difference in heating bill for us - significantly lower with natural gas, but that depends on pricing in your area. Natural gas is more convenient as long as the supply lines remain intact. Our propane supplier was quite reliable also, came and refilled the underground storage tank automatically; again, that is likely dependent on who you choose for a supplier. I'd say that natural gas might be a tad safer but that is an arguable point - propane is heavier than air, natural gas is lighter. A propane leak in a basement with a water heater flame could be problematic as you might not smell a leak quickly as you would with natural gas, the heavy propane gas could accumulate to a depth sufficient to reach the water heater flame .... and then boom! Something to consider.

We had oil heat in a previous home (late 1970s). Dirtier, smellier, more costly to PM or repair the furnace. Oil tank was located in the basement and they had to refill via a hose through a basement window. Always messy. But oil was cheaper than electric resistance heating, and heat pumps were not really great back then from what I was told.
I was concerned with the safety of using any type of gas in my house.

I have an electric hot water heater so no flame there. And, it's one of those fancy electric hot water heaters that allows me to run it on heat pump cycle for about nine months of the year. And, as a side benefit, when in heat pump mode reduces some of the moisture in my basement.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Kriegs Permaculture Notes

Post by Hal » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:56 pm

Waaay back I was going to an archeological dig in the back of the garage for my permaculture course notes.

Success! Here is the course overview. Will post some notes each week, hopefully beginning this Tuesday when I can get access to the local library's scanner.

May be of use to Maddy as well.
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by WiseOne » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:32 pm

What's the reason for the natural gas moratorium?

Please don't tell me it's for climate change reasons. That makes it crazy stupid, to force people to go back to using oil. Con Edison just spent the last year or so ripping up the streets in my neighborhood to install high pressure gas lines, so that my coop can run the heat on gas this winter instead of oil. It'll be a huge savings. Hoping that means New York hasn't subscribed to that brand of insanity.

If oil isn't an option, Vinny, then yes your best bet is a wood stove. And there's awesome Youtube videos about how to create very effective room heaters from flower pots and tea lights. I suppose you could switch to electric heat, but that would be about like heating your house by setting fire to large stacks of dollar bills.
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by Hal » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:56 pm

Perhaps using a heat pump would be another alternative? You would have to do the calculations against gas/oil/wood to see if it's worthwhile.
https://airconditionerlab.com/coefficie ... rformance/
<snip>
For instance, an air-source heat pump has a COP of 2.5, meaning that it transfers heat energy 2.5 times more than the energy consumed.
<snip>

Edit: This is what we use. COP=4.03 :D
https://www.fujitsugeneral.com.au/produ ... cationsTab
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Re: Natural Gas Moratorium?

Post by Tortoise » Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:47 pm

I find that living in a warm, mild climate is the most efficient way to heat my house.
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