COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by pp4me » Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:00 am

Tortoise wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:59 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:12 am
In my experience, masks do seem to provide some level of protection.

Since March of last year, no one in my immediate family has gotten any kind of cold like illness. Sure, some can be attributed to not being in school. But for me and my wife, life has been pretty normal -- I go to work every day, we shop as usual, etc. I think I typically would get 2-4 colds a year, and my oldest daughter probably 6-10. Zero in the past 12 months. And she is at school.

Not saying that will mean I will wear a mask once I don't have to, but either/or/both mask wearing and distancing has dropped sickness a lot, in my family.
Could hand-washing and avoiding face-touching also have played a role there?

I never thought much about that stuff before March of last year. I would wash my hands after using the restroom, but that was about it. In retrospect, I suspect a lot of cold/flu bugs I used to catch were because I touched my mouth, nose, or eyes after touching doorknobs and other objects that dozens of other people had touched.

Since then, I've developed a new habit of never touching my face in public, and I always wash my hands immediately when I return home. I hadn't gotten sick since March of last year until I got Covid a few weeks ago from a presymptomatic person staying in my house for the weekend.

By the way, 6-10 colds a year? Are you serious? If I get two colds in a given year, I feel unlucky as hell. 6-10 sounds like a lot. Could some of that be seasonal allergies rather than colds?
It took me about 2 days before I started forgetting to wash my hands after going to the store. Can't even remember the last time I did it.

Before I retired I was almost guaranteed to get one very bad cold every year, sometimes two. Since then, almost five years now, I have only had one and that was when I went to Australia and spent 8 days in a car with a boy sneezing all over me.

Apparently the primary source for spreading the cold virus was the workplace and/or having school age kids at home, neither of which applies to me any more. I'd be a lot more worried about COVID if either of those were still true.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:22 pm

I get colds and have trouble with them. No job and no kids at home. None during the covid period yet. From now on, when "there is a bug going around", I will be masking, avoiding stores, and washing hands. Usually that's only a few weeks in early winter.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:26 pm

Research has been showing that many virus’s just don’t get along ...

Covid vs flu seems to have the covid virus taking over the respiratory system and not flu ....covid still has no issues spreading as we saw so it just seems to knock the flu out of the box .

Zdogg had done a podcast on what they saw happen to flu season
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by WiseOne » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:19 pm

It'll be interesting to see what measures actually work to limit colds. Most of what people are doing now have already been shown to be useless. And, it takes prolonged contact to catch bugs, so shopping and restaurant dining aren't the problem. Definitely stay away from airplanes and crowded theaters in the winter! And tell your relatives and friends not to drop by if they've got the sniffles. If anything good comes from this pandemic, it should be that this behavior will no longer be considered acceptable.

But, I'm not at all sure it's desirable to limit all colds. Doesn't the immune system need a workout once in a while? I'm no longer as afraid of colds as I used to be, also....since going to a low carb diet, cutting out grains and sugar, and supplementing vitamin D, the longest I've had to live with a cold is a few hours. As soon as I feel one coming on, I immediately take 10,000 IU of vitamin D and the symptoms dissolve away. That's happened for the last 3 colds I've gotten over the past two years since I started this. It's unbelievable that I used to suffer horribly with colds and the sinus infections I would get afterwards for weeks every winter. No more!
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:36 pm

I have been on a low carb diet for years since I have to watch carbs ..

We saw how well that worked for me

My donut eating friends did better than I did
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by pp4me » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:48 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:19 pm
It's unbelievable that I used to suffer horribly with colds and the sinus infections I would get afterwards for weeks every winter.
Me too but in Florida it doesn't correspond as much with the winter months. I usually got mine in the spring for some reason but I've had them in every season including summer. I've had colds so bad that I coughed almost non-stop for weeks and couldn't sleep. And yes, it usually ended up with a trip to the doctor and treatment for a sinus infection with antibiotics which makes no sense since they aren't supposed to be anti-viral. My guess is that I just got better with time and it only works because it was due to run its course any way but you are the doctor, not me.

As I said, this seems to be a thing of the past now that I'm retired which I am very thankful for. I have been taking Vitamin D but only when I read about how it helps for COVID.

Wouldn't it be surprising if the COVID vaccine turned out to be a cure for the common cold?
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by pp4me » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:11 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:53 pm
pp4me wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:48 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:19 pm
It's unbelievable that I used to suffer horribly with colds and the sinus infections I would get afterwards for weeks every winter.
Me too but in Florida it doesn't correspond as much with the winter months. I usually got mine in the spring for some reason but I've had them in every season including summer. I've had colds so bad that I coughed almost non-stop for weeks and couldn't sleep. And yes, it usually ended up with a trip to the doctor and treatment for a sinus infection with antibiotics which makes no sense since they aren't supposed to be anti-viral. My guess is that I just got better with time and it only works because it was due to run its course any way but you are the doctor, not me.

As I said, this seems to be a thing of the past now that I'm retired which I am very thankful for. I have been taking Vitamin D but only when I read about how it helps for COVID.

Wouldn't it be surprising if the COVID vaccine turned out to be a cure for the common cold?
The sinus infection was bacterial, secondary to the virus you had. So the antibiotics were indeed indicated. It is not uncommon to end up with a bacterial infection in your sinuses, throat, or bronchial passages that result from a nasty, prolonged virus.
Sounds reasonable enough but I don't remember this ever being determined by anything more than a clinical evaluation without any tests for the presence of bacteria.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by stuper1 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:38 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:25 pm
Personally I'm never going without a mask ever again, indoors and out. I can't have it on my conscious if I unknowingly spread a deadly disease, disproportionately to poor minorities who serve the function as essential workers for less than poverty wages.

The biggest hurdle has been showering with a mask. I've been prototyping using recycled plastic grocery store bags cut and shaped into a mask, so they are water-resistant. Second bonus that it helps remove plastic from landfills that otherwise kill endangered animals.

My testing has been a mixed bag, they can be hard to breathe from, but I think that just means they're working really well. And after a few minutes I start to feel really euphoric, knowing how much of a difference I'm making to safeguard society's weakest.
You forgot to say "as a lifelong Democrat."

Just trying to help.

Otherwise, I enjoyed your post as always, and I think now I understand what you are doing: inoculating yourself against the coming Cultural Revolution.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by stuper1 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:39 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:19 pm
It'll be interesting to see what measures actually work to limit colds. Most of what people are doing now have already been shown to be useless. And, it takes prolonged contact to catch bugs, so shopping and restaurant dining aren't the problem. Definitely stay away from airplanes and crowded theaters in the winter! And tell your relatives and friends not to drop by if they've got the sniffles. If anything good comes from this pandemic, it should be that this behavior will no longer be considered acceptable.

But, I'm not at all sure it's desirable to limit all colds. Doesn't the immune system need a workout once in a while? I'm no longer as afraid of colds as I used to be, also....since going to a low carb diet, cutting out grains and sugar, and supplementing vitamin D, the longest I've had to live with a cold is a few hours. As soon as I feel one coming on, I immediately take 10,000 IU of vitamin D and the symptoms dissolve away. That's happened for the last 3 colds I've gotten over the past two years since I started this. It's unbelievable that I used to suffer horribly with colds and the sinus infections I would get afterwards for weeks every winter. No more!
WiseOne, can you give a few more details on the type of vitamin D that you use? I've seen vitamin D and vitamin D3 and so on, but I'm a layman with this stuff.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by WiseOne » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:43 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:28 pm
Serious question: Did you try the Vit D 10K with a diet full of carbs? Because otherwise, implying that the low carb thing had anything to do with it is just conjecture. To imply otherwise is disingenuous.
Good question. Actually yes, I had tried all kinds of stuff prior to going low carb, but was never able to escape the post cold sinusitis. Maybe you could try the vitamin D on its own. It has been effective in some limited clinical trials of hospitalized COVID cases, but it didn't have such a striking effect as what I saw.

edit to answer another question: vitamin D3 drops bought off Amazon. Nothing special but you do have to make sure it's D3 and in oil, either in dropper or gel cap form.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by I Shrugged » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:44 pm

Just looking at a few US states, it looks like COVID is falling off a cliff over the past two weeks.
Yes?
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by jalanlong » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:27 am

Not trying to make a political point but I do find it fascinating how Covid has exposed a lot of collectivist tendencies in a country that is supposedly so individualist. The slogans are everywhere..."We are in this together" or "Stronger Together." Even my son's elementary school tshirts this year have a "Better Together" on them that doesn't really seem necessary.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by SomeDude » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:01 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:44 pm
Just looking at a few US states, it looks like COVID is falling off a cliff over the past two weeks.
Yes?
All it required was some election "irregularities".
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by SomeDude » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:02 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:44 pm
Just looking at a few US states, it looks like COVID is falling off a cliff over the past two weeks.
Yes?
Has it been met with an equal increase in the flu? :o
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by I Shrugged » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:10 am

SomeDude wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:02 am
I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:44 pm
Just looking at a few US states, it looks like COVID is falling off a cliff over the past two weeks.
Yes?
Has it been met with an equal increase in the flu? :o
By last summer I figured there wouldn’t be much flu because of the COVID precautions. I know you don’t want to believe that, but I do.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by glennds » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:24 am

jalanlong wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:27 am
Not trying to make a political point but I do find it fascinating how Covid has exposed a lot of collectivist tendencies in a country that is supposedly so individualist. The slogans are everywhere..."We are in this together" or "Stronger Together." Even my son's elementary school tshirts this year have a "Better Together" on them that doesn't really seem necessary.
Just out of curiosity, do you feel (what you call) collectivist tendencies are ever appropriate?

For example, there were a lot of similar slogans after 9/11, and FDR famously promoted the same after the Great Depression. The WWII "we are in this together" was so extensive in popular culture that there is a collectible memorabilia market for it.
What do you think of these "stronger together, we are one" type examples?
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by jalanlong » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:27 am

https://nypost.com/2021/02/19/white-hou ... i-vaxxers/

"The White House is asking social media companies to clamp down on chatter that deviates from officially distributed COVID-19 information as part of President Biden’s “wartime effort” to vanquish the coronavirus.

A senior administration official tells Reuters that the Biden administration is asking Facebook, Twitter and Google to help prevent anti-vaccine fears from going viral, as distrust of the inoculations emerges as a major barrier in the fight against the deadly virus."
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by Tortoise » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:31 am

I'm sure they really have to twist Big Tech's arm to cooperate on that. ::)
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by vnatale » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:36 am

jalanlong wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:27 am

https://nypost.com/2021/02/19/white-hou ... i-vaxxers/

"The White House is asking social media companies to clamp down on chatter that deviates from officially distributed COVID-19 information as part of President Biden’s “wartime effort” to vanquish the coronavirus.

A senior administration official tells Reuters that the Biden administration is asking Facebook, Twitter and Google to help prevent anti-vaccine fears from going viral, as distrust of the inoculations emerges as a major barrier in the fight against the deadly virus."


Would that be any different than asking them to be doing the same regarding the Anti-Vaccers?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/anti-vaxxer

Should we want the anit-vaccer position to be promoted? To be given as full rein as possible?
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by jalanlong » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:40 am

glennds wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:24 am
jalanlong wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:27 am
Not trying to make a political point but I do find it fascinating how Covid has exposed a lot of collectivist tendencies in a country that is supposedly so individualist. The slogans are everywhere..."We are in this together" or "Stronger Together." Even my son's elementary school tshirts this year have a "Better Together" on them that doesn't really seem necessary.
Just out of curiosity, do you feel (what you call) collectivist tendencies are ever appropriate?

For example, there were a lot of similar slogans after 9/11, and FDR famously promoted the same after the Great Depression. The WWII "we are in this together" was so extensive in popular culture that there is a collectible memorabilia market for it.
What do you think of these "stronger together, we are one" type examples?
To me the problem with slogans such as "we are all in this together" is that they imply that we have all sacrificed something for the cause. And that is not always the case. I personally have not lost a job due to Covid. However, if I had, I would be incredibly insulted that a Congressperson, Governor or City Health Official who has not lost one paycheck, is randomly giving directives that kills my job and then has the audacity to make me feel better by saying that we are all in it together. My general opinion is those that create or utter those slogans the most are usually the ones who have sacrificed the least.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by jalanlong » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:47 am

vnatale wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:36 am
jalanlong wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:27 am
https://nypost.com/2021/02/19/white-hou ... i-vaxxers/

"The White House is asking social media companies to clamp down on chatter that deviates from officially distributed COVID-19 information as part of President Biden’s “wartime effort” to vanquish the coronavirus.

A senior administration official tells Reuters that the Biden administration is asking Facebook, Twitter and Google to help prevent anti-vaccine fears from going viral, as distrust of the inoculations emerges as a major barrier in the fight against the deadly virus."
Would that be any different than asking them to be doing the same regarding the Anti-Vaccers?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/anti-vaxxer

Should we want the anit-vaccer position to be promoted? To be given as full rein as possible?
I would never want a central government to be cajoling a news outlet (however you define that) to skew the news towards the party line. We often laugh at how North Korean news outlets report on the miraculous feats of its glorious leader and wonder how the public could possibly believe such things and how obvious is it that this is government sponsored propaganda. How is this any better? Because it is about public health?
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by Tortoise » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:00 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:10 am
By last summer I figured there wouldn’t be much flu because of the COVID precautions. I know you [SomeDude] don’t want to believe that, but I do.
If the Covid precautions worked so well for the flu, why didn't they also work for Covid?
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by Xan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:08 pm

Zdogg addresses this question:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs4p-OG3RiE

Thanks to Mathjak for pointing me to this guy. He's pretty awesome.
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by mathjak107 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:21 pm

That is my go to expert..it is very interesting as far as this co virus stuff not being able to exist well together
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Re: COVID Cases Sharply Declining: Why This Is Worst Case Scenario

Post by glennds » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:28 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:40 am
glennds wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:24 am
jalanlong wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:27 am
Not trying to make a political point but I do find it fascinating how Covid has exposed a lot of collectivist tendencies in a country that is supposedly so individualist. The slogans are everywhere..."We are in this together" or "Stronger Together." Even my son's elementary school tshirts this year have a "Better Together" on them that doesn't really seem necessary.
Just out of curiosity, do you feel (what you call) collectivist tendencies are ever appropriate?

For example, there were a lot of similar slogans after 9/11, and FDR famously promoted the same after the Great Depression. The WWII "we are in this together" was so extensive in popular culture that there is a collectible memorabilia market for it.
What do you think of these "stronger together, we are one" type examples?
To me the problem with slogans such as "we are all in this together" is that they imply that we have all sacrificed something for the cause. And that is not always the case. I personally have not lost a job due to Covid. However, if I had, I would be incredibly insulted that a Congressperson, Governor or City Health Official who has not lost one paycheck, is randomly giving directives that kills my job and then has the audacity to make me feel better by saying that we are all in it together. My general opinion is those that create or utter those slogans the most are usually the ones who have sacrificed the least.
You make a valid point.

I find the broader subject interesting and have been reading up on Harry Browne's thoughts. On the one hand, he was clearly a believer in pure libertarianism i.e unfettered individualism.
On the other hand, he talks about the importance of social causes and charitable causes and their role in a stable society. It seems his key point is not that social causes deserve no attention, it is that government should not tasked with the role of addressing them.

My takeaway is that Harry Browne's individualism does not necessarily mean complete self interest (read selfishness) to the point of disregard for anyone else.
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