Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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jalanlong
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:49 am
It is like when our knucklehead president said stop all the testing and we will have less cases ...ha ha
Trump took a lot of heat for that quote but isn't there a point to be made on that? Prior to Covid, if people woke up in the morning and felt flu-like symptoms, what did they do? They most likely stayed in bed and slept until they felt better. Some even ventured into work and just fought it off. After Covid what do most people do? Run out and get a test. The owner of my company has had himself tested 5 times in the last year, pretty much every time he has the sniffles. As Sophie has pointed out many times, in this new Covid world a positive test equals a "case." So if anyone and everyone is testing constantly then aren't cases always going to be at a certain level? What would "the science" tell us about the frequency of other illnesses if the volume of people that do Covid testing also tested for other sicknesses every time they felt under the weather?

These are the type of things I never hear discussed on the news over the past year. I would be far less of an "alt right science denier" if I heard these type of things explored. Or maybe a discussion on why, despite drastically different solutions, there was little difference between hospitalizations and deaths per capita in states like California and Connecticut which continue to lock down hard and states like Florida or South Dakota which remained relatively mandate free. Florida is 27th in per capita Covid deaths, California 28th. I want to hear honest discussions on statistics like that and what that means for the assumed solutions of distancing, masks, lockdowns etc. I feel like all I have heard on either side is propaganda and slogans (#stayhomesavelives).
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by sophie » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:21 pm

Not to mention that vaccine passports could be construed as an illegal attempt to coerce you (as a patient) into subjecting yourself to an experimental therapy. The laws against that are quite explicit.

For example, in IRB protocols and consent forms I have to write several paragraphs carefully explaining how patient care will not differ regardless of whether a patient declines to participate in studies, plus we aren't allowed to offer patients financial incentives, no matter how small, lest that be construed as a form of coercion.

Bottom line is that vaccine passports as they are intended in NYC will never stand up to a court challenge, as long as the court is populated by people who know and abide by federal as well as state law. Ironically, New York has its own set of laws regulating medical research that are even stricter than the federal ones.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by sophie » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:36 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 pm
Prior to Covid, if people woke up in the morning and felt flu-like symptoms, what did they do? They most likely stayed in bed and slept until they felt better. Some even ventured into work and just fought it off. After Covid what do most people do? Run out and get a test. The owner of my company has had himself tested 5 times in the last year, pretty much every time he has the sniffles. As Sophie has pointed out many times, in this new Covid world a positive test equals a "case." So if anyone and everyone is testing constantly then aren't cases always going to be at a certain level?
Thanks for making this point jalanlong!!

This is exactly why I think it will be a very long time before the ongoing life disruption will end. There will always be positive tests because the virus is endemic and won't go away. Will the whole gang of the CDC, Fauci, Birx, etc plus the news media with their newfound medical credentials ever realize their mistake and reverse course??

Not likely. Not ever. I foresee that the only way this will end is that people will simply start ignoring the mandates, the media will find something else to entertain themselves with, and Fauci et al will quietly slink off the stage. And yes, testing in the community (as opposed to testing of patients with COVID symptoms in hospitals, to help confirm the diagnosis) needs to stop. That is what will make this whole nightmare go away. Vaccination of the most vulnerable....yes, that's already proving helpful, but it's already been done and you can see it's having no effect on case counts. Nor on the level of hysteria. So that's not the way out of this mess.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:54 pm

"But the point is that the government shouldn't have stolen that freedom in the first place."

People with a slave mentality won't be able to understand that statement.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:02 pm

"These are the type of things I never hear discussed on the news over the past year. I would be far less of an "alt right science denier" if I heard these type of things explored. Or maybe a discussion on why, despite drastically different solutions, there was little difference between hospitalizations and deaths per capita in states like California and Connecticut which continue to lock down hard and states like Florida or South Dakota which remained relatively mandate free. .... "

True.

However, the MSM has been reduced to being State propaganda outlets.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:07 pm

"And yes, testing in the community (as opposed to testing of patients with COVID symptoms in hospitals, to help confirm the diagnosis) needs to stop. That is what will make this whole nightmare go away."

I would like to agree with you Sophie.

However, the propagators of the plandemic have displayed a level of malice against humanity which suggests to me they have no intention of relenting.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:10 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:54 pm
"But the point is that the government shouldn't have stolen that freedom in the first place."

People with a slave mentality won't be able to understand that statement.
Furthermore, if you object to being enslaved, they will accuse you of whining.

#StockholmSyndrome
#SS
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:21 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:07 pm
"And yes, testing in the community (as opposed to testing of patients with COVID symptoms in hospitals, to help confirm the diagnosis) needs to stop. That is what will make this whole nightmare go away."

I would like to agree with you Sophie.

However, the propagators of the plandemic have displayed a level of malice against humanity which suggests to me they have no intention of relenting.
It does take a willing participant on the other side however. And that is what has shocked even me. Like I have posted before, I thought when lockdowns started last March that it would last a month or two before people got tired of it. First of all because people are social animals. They are going to want to go to movie, concerts, sporting events etc. And also because people tend to have short attention spans. I vastly underestimated how many people would be willing to hide in their basement in perpetuity.

My wife and I are trying to decide whether to go see her family in California this Christmas. We are not going to be vaccinated and I am quite sure the Fauci crowd there will not approve. My only hope is that right now vaccination is all the talk and that 9 months from now people will have moved on. But I have been wrong about that for over a year now!!
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:27 pm

sophie wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:36 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 pm
Prior to Covid, if people woke up in the morning and felt flu-like symptoms, what did they do? They most likely stayed in bed and slept until they felt better. Some even ventured into work and just fought it off. After Covid what do most people do? Run out and get a test. The owner of my company has had himself tested 5 times in the last year, pretty much every time he has the sniffles. As Sophie has pointed out many times, in this new Covid world a positive test equals a "case." So if anyone and everyone is testing constantly then aren't cases always going to be at a certain level?
Thanks for making this point jalanlong!!

This is exactly why I think it will be a very long time before the ongoing life disruption will end. There will always be positive tests because the virus is endemic and won't go away. Will the whole gang of the CDC, Fauci, Birx, etc plus the news media with their newfound medical credentials ever realize their mistake and reverse course??

Not likely. Not ever. I foresee that the only way this will end is that people will simply start ignoring the mandates, the media will find something else to entertain themselves with, and Fauci et al will quietly slink off the stage. And yes, testing in the community (as opposed to testing of patients with COVID symptoms in hospitals, to help confirm the diagnosis) needs to stop. That is what will make this whole nightmare go away. Vaccination of the most vulnerable....yes, that's already proving helpful, but it's already been done and you can see it's having no effect on case counts. Nor on the level of hysteria. So that's not the way out of this mess.
Sophie,

From a medical professional perspective, what is your take on Fauci? This Christmas I may have to venture to see family in California and I assume if I even start to bring up that perhaps Covid was not what it was made out to be, I will be asked where my medical credentials are and told about all of Faucis awards etc.

I am interested in your take on him. Do you see him at the same level as a politician who just has an authoritarian bent and doesn't really believe everything he says? Or do you see him as someone who is doing what he thinks is right but only gets data or sees things from one perspective?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by tomfoolery » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:59 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 pm
Florida is 27th in per capita Covid deaths, California 28th.
This just goes to show that the lockdowns in California worked because California had fewer deaths than Florida in spite of having 10x the population.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:03 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:59 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 pm
Florida is 27th in per capita Covid deaths, California 28th.
This just goes to show that the lockdowns in California worked because California had fewer deaths than Florida in spite of having 10x the population.
From Biden telling the nation that Covid has killed more people than WWII, Korea and Vietnam wars combined to my local news shocking me with the raw numbers that Texas has more Covid deaths than any other state other than California, all along the line "per capita" calculations would have ruined the narrative.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by whatchamacallit » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:29 pm

tomfoolery wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:59 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:18 pm
Florida is 27th in per capita Covid deaths, California 28th.
This just goes to show that the lockdowns in California worked because California had fewer deaths than Florida in spite of having 10x the population.
And when you calculate senior citizen population. I am sure california has 20x the senior citizen population of Florida where almost no senior citizens live.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:43 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:00 pm
Kbg wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:30 am
Not sure how a vaccine passport violates your ability to freely assemble? Free in this case does not mean conveniently, cheaply or using a conveyance of your choosing. It means you can get together for a political purpose. A passport by definition is a restriction, no doubt. Get a shot, get a passport, simple. Don't get a shot, be inconvenienced, also simple.
The First Amendment violation was when the governments mandated business closures and capacity restrictions. The vaccine passport is the new hoop that the government created that one can jump through to get back some of one's stolen freedom.

In the case of NYC (and possibly other places; we'll see), the vaccine passport isn't actually mandated. The government just gives privileged status to businesses that use the vaccine passports. Meaning those "privileged" businesses get more of their stolen freedom back. But the point is that the government shouldn't have stolen that freedom in the first place.
Let's just say your view of the First Amendment is "expansive." Maybe you should read up on what the freedom of assembly protects before you post stuff about it. It's pretty clear you are clueless.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:46 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:10 pm
murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:54 pm
"But the point is that the government shouldn't have stolen that freedom in the first place."

People with a slave mentality won't be able to understand that statement.
Furthermore, if you object to being enslaved, they will accuse you of whining.

#StockholmSyndrome
#SS
#NoWhining

#ChoicesHaveConsequences

#JustBecauseYouDontLikeThemTooBad
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Tortoise » Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:48 pm

Kbg wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:43 pm
Let's just say your view of the First Amendment is "expansive." Maybe you should read up on what the freedom of assembly protects before you post stuff about it. It's pretty clear you are clueless.
Now now, Kbg, there's no need to let your emotions get the better of you and resort to ad hominem attacks. We're all adults here.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:19 pm

To all PPForum participants:
Could we just kiss, hug, whatever, and makeup? I know we are all sick of the current situation, but I (used) to think the members of this forum were a cut or two about the fray. Now I am not so sure. Get over it and get over the self righteousness.
Last edited by Mountaineer on Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Psalm 146
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by tomfoolery » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:23 pm

The constitution of the United States clearly states first amendment exists except to yell fire in a crowded theater. The second amendment clearly states you can guns but you can’t own a shotgun with a barrel under 18” unless you get a special permit and pay a special tax.

The right to assembly has the same common sense restrictions, you and assemble a group of angry rioters to set fire to buildings like the insurrection Trump initiated. And you can’t assemble in the middle of a pandemic.

Read the constitution people, it’s all in there.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Tortoise » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:30 pm

TF, your avatar just reminded me: ZDogg is actually opposed to vaccine passports. He says it would be preferable to just make the vaccine available to as many people as possible and educate them on vaccine effectiveness.

ZDogg, freedom advocate!

https://youtu.be/6AnxLiS_28Q (skip to 10:25 for the most relevant bit)
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:53 pm

About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-c ... obese.html
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by mathjak107 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:03 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:53 pm
About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-c ... obese.html
Most Americans are overweight so no matter what the incident that can likely be said just by the shear numbers. 71.6% of adults are over weight ....

What percentage of Americans are obese? Nearly 40% of American adults aged 20 and over are obese. 71.6% of adults aged 20 and over are overweight, including obesity. (National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 2017-2018; Harvard School of Public Health, 2020).Jan 21, 2021
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:48 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:03 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:53 pm

About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-c ... obese.html


Most Americans are overweight so no matter what the incident that can likely be said just by the shear numbers. 71.6% of adults are over weight ....

What percentage of Americans are obese? Nearly 40% of American adults aged 20 and over are obese. 71.6% of adults aged 20 and over are overweight, including obesity. (National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 2017-2018; Harvard School of Public Health, 2020).Jan 21, 2021


Those are simply astounding numbers to me! I never thought I was in such a minority. When I next go food shopping (have not yet done so once in 2021!) I'm going to count the adults I see to determine how many fall into which category - overweight / not overweight.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:36 pm

Kbg wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:43 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:00 pm
Kbg wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:30 am
Not sure how a vaccine passport violates your ability to freely assemble? Free in this case does not mean conveniently, cheaply or using a conveyance of your choosing. It means you can get together for a political purpose. A passport by definition is a restriction, no doubt. Get a shot, get a passport, simple. Don't get a shot, be inconvenienced, also simple.
The First Amendment violation was when the governments mandated business closures and capacity restrictions. The vaccine passport is the new hoop that the government created that one can jump through to get back some of one's stolen freedom.

In the case of NYC (and possibly other places; we'll see), the vaccine passport isn't actually mandated. The government just gives privileged status to businesses that use the vaccine passports. Meaning those "privileged" businesses get more of their stolen freedom back. But the point is that the government shouldn't have stolen that freedom in the first place.
Let's just say your view of the First Amendment is "expansive." Maybe you should read up on what the freedom of assembly protects before you post stuff about it.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kbg » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:37 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:48 pm
Kbg wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:43 pm
Let's just say your view of the First Amendment is "expansive." Maybe you should read up on what the freedom of assembly protects before you post stuff about it. It's pretty clear you are clueless.
Now now, Kbg, there's no need to let your emotions get the better of you and resort to ad hominem attacks. We're all adults here.
No emotions...written too quickly and comment deleted. Thanks for the call out! Deserved.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:50 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:48 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:03 pm
flyingpylon wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 5:53 pm
About 78% of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a new study

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-c ... obese.html
Most Americans are overweight so no matter what the incident that can likely be said just by the shear numbers. 71.6% of adults are over weight ....

What percentage of Americans are obese? Nearly 40% of American adults aged 20 and over are obese. 71.6% of adults aged 20 and over are overweight, including obesity. (National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 2017-2018; Harvard School of Public Health, 2020).Jan 21, 2021
Those are simply astounding numbers to me! I never thought I was in such a minority. When I next go food shopping (have not yet done so once in 2021!) I'm going to count the adults I see to determine how many fall into which category - overweight / not overweight.
A few months ago someone pointed out to me how photos of people at the beach in the 1940s or 1970s show most people there to be what we would consider very thin these days. Ever since I noticed that when I am sitting in a restaurant or doctor’s office I look around and take notice of how many people are overweight. It may not be the nicest thing to do but it is a revelation.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Tortoise » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:17 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:48 pm
Those are simply astounding numbers to me! I never thought I was in such a minority. When I next go food shopping (have not yet done so once in 2021!) I'm going to count the adults I see to determine how many fall into which category - overweight / not overweight.
The percentage of overweight people can vary quite a bit by geographical location and neighborhood.

In Newport Beach, CA, you'll hardly see any overweight people.

In Houston, TX, you'll see them everywhere.
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