Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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pp4me
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pp4me » Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:51 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:28 pm
My point was that simple statements like "96% of MDs have taken a COVID vaccine" are relatively worthless. It's okay if you disagree.
So far we've only heard of nurses refusing the vaccine when mandates are in place. In New York, the new governor said not to worry, those nurses are expendable and can be easily replaced. Sounds like an even greater opportunity to make a lot of money for all the travelling Filipino nurses I know (and they are making a lot of money - you should see their home remodeling projects).

Still waiting for the story about a doctor being fired or stripped of hospital privileges for not taking the vaccine. That's when it will get really interesting.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by I Shrugged » Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:15 pm

Hospitals are short staffed almost everywhere in the USA.
Hospitals are threatening to fire qualified staff over vaccination status.

Make of that what you will.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:55 pm

This following excerpt from the Gottlieb book is not an attempt to persuade to get vaccinated or not get vaccinated. Just gives you insight into what it takes to develop a vaccine.

And, anyone ever know about this? "This prompted federal officials to finance the formation of secretive flocks of chickens located in sprawling, indoor facilities that were spread across thirty-five sites in the eastern United States."

Vinny

Even though the government had been worried about the risk of a pandemic flu for a number of years, up until that point relatively few resources were focused on developing reliable countermeasures. The NIH’s entire flu research budget for 2005 was about $119 million. HHS had created an initial stockpile of just 2.3 million treatment courses of oseltamivir, the only approved drug that had shown activity against a range of potentially dangerous influenzas.37 It was a paltry amount for a country of nearly 300 million people. In a real pandemic, it was estimated that at least 100 million doses would be needed, and perhaps more if it took a long time to develop a vaccine.

Making a vaccine can be hard. The development work might take years. Part of the challenge is the way that flu vaccines are manufactured, using chicken eggs to culture the virus and grow the critical proteins that are used as the stock for the vaccines. Under this process, a fertilized chicken egg is inoculated with a strain of influenza. The virus is allowed to replicate in the yolk, before it’s harvested, inactivated, and incorporated into vaccines. In this way, the eggs serve as incubators for the development of the viral proteins that are used for the vaccine.

This outdated approach is the backbone for producing the seasonal flu vaccine. But there were serious concerns in 2005 that it wouldn’t be adequate—or even feasible—in the event of a pandemic bird flu. For one thing, there was fear that there wouldn’t be enough chicken eggs if there was a surge in demand for the vaccine. This prompted federal officials to finance the formation of secretive flocks of chickens located in sprawling, indoor facilities that were spread across thirty-five sites in the eastern United States.38 About $44 million was invested in a five-year program to harden the sites, to make sure there would be a sufficient supply of eggs.39 The US government even classified these chicken farms as part of the nation’s “critical infrastructure,” shielding them from public view. One person who worked for me at the FDA, and toured the locations, described walking into one cavernous installation and seeing an endless sea of white chickens. The hens would all run away from you, she said, and the roosters would all charge toward you.

The next concern was whether the chickens—and their eggs—could survive a pandemic bird flu long enough to support the production of a vaccine. A bird flu, by its very nature, kills poultry. It could wipe out the chickens. The same strain could prove deadly to the eggs and to the developing embryos that are needed to grow the viral stock that’s used to produce the vaccines. Getting a developing chicken egg to survive inoculation with a bird flu may not be feasible. So, as a fail-safe, the team established a backup plan to build manufacturing sites that wouldn’t be dependent on chickens or their eggs, relying instead on cells derived from mammals rather than chicken embryos as the medium on which to grow the influenza virus and harvest its proteins.

The presumption is that mammalian cells would be less likely to be killed outright by a strain of bird flu. Moreover, because the cell cultures could be incubated in large bioreactors, it made it potentially faster, and easier, to produce the vaccine stock in large quantities. These processes were also easier to expand if we needed to surge the production of vaccines. In the manufacturing of pharmaceutical products that are derived from biological sources, it’s often said that the process is the product. The characteristics of a vaccine or other biological are closely tied to how it’s manufactured. There are a lot of things that can go wrong, and many of them are hard to predict—and detect. It’s estimated that 70 percent of the time and resources related to the manufacture of a vaccine is focused on quality control.40 The biggest risk often comes from “scaling up” production—expanding an existing manufacturing line to boost its output—and “scaling out” a process—partnering with other manufacturers to broaden your production capabilities and teaching other plants how to reliably make the complex product. The cell-based process was easier to expand; lots of manufacturing plants could accept cell lines and grow them in their existing vats, often with minor modifications. You didn’t need to wait for eggs to be laid.

There were other advantages to the cell-based process. The virus obtained in cell cultures can be made to more carefully match the circulating strain of flu. The mammalian cell cultures can more closely mimic the human cells that the virus is ultimately programmed to target. In this way the virus that gets churned out from these cultures can also be made to look just like the viral copies that will be produced when the virus naturally infects its human host. A virus manufactured in a mammalian cell culture doesn’t need to adapt as much to its new growing environment as a virus grown in eggs. If the virus was already trained to infect human cells, then replicating it in a mammalian cell culture doesn’t require it to change its ways.

By contrast, virus manufactured in eggs often undergoes adaptation to the chickens, a process called “antigenic modification.” These modifications are small changes that make the virus more closely suited to growing in a chicken egg. But the adaptation can also change the conformation of the virus’s proteins, making them less likely to be recognized by a human immune system, and more likely to be recognized by a chicken’s. That can make the vaccine less potent in stimulating our immune system. If these viral proteins undergo too many changes, then once they are injected into our arms, the proteins could end up stimulating the production of human antibodies that aren’t as well suited to attacking the real virus.41 They become adapted to attacking a version of the virus that had itself been modified to replicate in chickens. This is what happened in 2017, when I was FDA commissioner. The flu vaccine didn’t work well that year, probably because it had undergone too much “egg adaptation.” The vaccine was only about 25 percent effective against the principal strain of influenza that circulated that winter.42

Recognizing these vulnerabilities, and the unique challenges they’d pose in a pandemic, there were earlier efforts to expand our domestic capacity to make flu vaccines in cell cultures and not chicken eggs. In the early 2000s, as part of this effort, the government refurbished and enlarged some domestic manufacturing sites.43 Building these plants would take many years and require an enormous investment of capital. Yet, after some initial efforts, attention would turn away from these priorities. The focus on building out our domestic capability to make flu vaccine, in facilities that could be impervious to a pandemic strain of bird flu, would ultimately give way to other priorities. We didn’t stick with it. Even with a lot of planning and a huge sum of money, only one significant facility would result from this effort; a single cell-based manufacturing site located in North Carolina.44 The plant was built for the production of a seasonal flu vaccine (and was eventually sold off to a foreign owner and wasn’t leveraged by the US government to boost vaccine manufacturing during COVID). Even after the plant was built, developing flu vaccines from this cell culturing process would run into regulatory hurdles. The first seasonal flu vaccine based on these new cell-culturing techniques wouldn’t be licensed by the FDA until 2012, almost a decade after these efforts first got under way.45

The path to building better resiliency would be protracted and uncertain, and ultimately many immune system. If these viral proteins undergo too many changes, then once they are injected into our arms, the proteins could end up stimulating the production of human antibodies that aren’t as well suited to attacking the real virus.41 They become adapted to attacking a version of the virus that had itself been modified to replicate in chickens. This is what happened in 2017, when I was FDA commissioner. The flu vaccine didn’t work well that year, probably because it had undergone too much “egg adaptation.” The vaccine was only about 25 percent effective against the principal strain of influenza that circulated that winter.42

Recognizing these vulnerabilities, and the unique challenges they’d pose in a pandemic, there were earlier efforts to expand our domestic capacity to make flu vaccines in cell cultures and not chicken eggs. In the early 2000s, as part of this effort, the government refurbished and enlarged some domestic manufacturing sites.43 Building these plants would take many years and require an enormous investment of capital. Yet, after some initial efforts, attention would turn away from these priorities. The focus on building out our domestic capability to make flu vaccine, in facilities that could be impervious to a pandemic strain of bird flu, would ultimately give way to other priorities. We didn’t stick with it. Even with a lot of planning and a huge sum of money, only one significant facility would result from this effort; a single cell-based manufacturing site located in North Carolina.44 The plant was built for the production of a seasonal flu vaccine (and was eventually sold off to a foreign owner and wasn’t leveraged by the US government to boost vaccine manufacturing during COVID). Even after the plant was built, developing flu vaccines from this cell culturing process would run into regulatory hurdles. The first seasonal flu vaccine based on these new cell-culturing techniques wouldn’t be licensed by the FDA until 2012, almost a decade after these efforts first got under way.45

The path to building better resiliency would be protracted and uncertain, and ultimately many aspects of our plans would be set aside. The dangers persisted longer than our attention to the risks.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pp4me » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:24 am

Interesting expose' of Pfizer by Michele Malkin

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/09/29 ... r-1141630/

Michelle Malkin: What every parent must know about Pfizer

Find out more about why Pfizer paid the largest fine for health care fraud in American history ($2.3 billion) in 2009 to resolve allegations that it illegally caused false claims to be submitted to the government and paid kickbacks to health care providers to induce them to prescribe their products.
And that's just in the U.S.A. The most interesting part is what they did in Nigeria.

It would be interesting to post this of Facebook just to see if it gets censored.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:08 am

pp4me wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:24 am

Interesting expose' of Pfizer by Michele Malkin

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/09/29 ... r-1141630/

Michelle Malkin: What every parent must know about Pfizer


Find out more about why Pfizer paid the largest fine for health care fraud in American history ($2.3 billion) in 2009 to resolve allegations that it illegally caused false claims to be submitted to the government and paid kickbacks to health care providers to induce them to prescribe their products.


And that's just in the U.S.A. The most interesting part is what they did in Nigeria.

It would be interesting to post this of Facebook just to see if it gets censored.


I just put it there. Will let you now what happens.

It did allow me to put it there.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by dualstow » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:08 am
I just put it there. Will let you now what happens.

It did allow me to put it there.
???
RIP COLIN POWELL, 84.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:50 am

dualstow wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:08 am

I just put it there. Will let you now what happens.

It did allow me to put it there.


???


It is still there and no one has yet commented on it.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pp4me » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:09 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:50 am
dualstow wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:45 am
vnatale wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:08 am
I just put it there. Will let you now what happens.

It did allow me to put it there.
???
It is still there and no one has yet commented on it.
I posted the same chart about rapidly declining Florida Covid deaths that I posted here on Facebook. Just the chart - no comments at all. They didn't censor it but they did tag it and posted a link to a government website. Actually, I thought that chart came from a government website.

I was kind of surprised by that. I only have about a dozen FB friends so why do they even care about anything I post?

Will be interesting to see what happens with yours. I read that Youtube has banned ALL anti-vaxx content.

Big mistake, IMO. The more they do this the more it feeds into the "things they don't want you know" conspiracy mindset.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:51 pm

pp4me wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:09 pm

Big mistake, IMO. The more they do this the more it feeds into the "things they don't want you know" conspiracy mindset.
My mother has Afib and has to go to a heart doctor twice a year. In Feb she went and since the vaccine was new the doctor told her that there was no data yet to support whether or not the Covid vaccine caused any issues for people with Afib. Well my mother went back yesterday for her next checkup. She asked and the doctor told her they were forbidden by the hospital to discuss any negative patient reactions they had seen from the vaccine. However, the hospital did require the doctor to state to every patient that they "recommend" they get the vaccine and have them sign a paper if they refuse it. The paper actually says " I am refusing the Covid vaccine." Interesting strategy they are employing to make people feel comfortable with it.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pugchief » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:20 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:51 pm
pp4me wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:09 pm

Big mistake, IMO. The more they do this the more it feeds into the "things they don't want you know" conspiracy mindset.
My mother has Afib and has to go to a heart doctor twice a year. In Feb she went and since the vaccine was new the doctor told her that there was no data yet to support whether or not the Covid vaccine caused any issues for people with Afib. Well my mother went back yesterday for her next checkup. She asked and the doctor told her they were forbidden by the hospital to discuss any negative patient reactions they had seen from the vaccine. However, the hospital did require the doctor to state to every patient that they "recommend" they get the vaccine and have them sign a paper if they refuse it. The paper actually says " I am refusing the Covid vaccine." Interesting strategy they are employing to make people feel comfortable with it.
Feelings about the vaccine aside, it is not the place of the hospital to be telling MDs how to practice medicine and what opinions to have. Slippery slope, IMO.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:29 pm

pugchief wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:20 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:51 pm
pp4me wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:09 pm

Big mistake, IMO. The more they do this the more it feeds into the "things they don't want you know" conspiracy mindset.
My mother has Afib and has to go to a heart doctor twice a year. In Feb she went and since the vaccine was new the doctor told her that there was no data yet to support whether or not the Covid vaccine caused any issues for people with Afib. Well my mother went back yesterday for her next checkup. She asked and the doctor told her they were forbidden by the hospital to discuss any negative patient reactions they had seen from the vaccine. However, the hospital did require the doctor to state to every patient that they "recommend" they get the vaccine and have them sign a paper if they refuse it. The paper actually says " I am refusing the Covid vaccine." Interesting strategy they are employing to make people feel comfortable with it.
Feelings about the vaccine aside, it is not the place of the hospital to be telling MDs how to practice medicine and what opinions to have. Slippery slope, IMO.
Seems weird as you are going to a doctor for their specific opinion. I am sure the hospital's justification is that they want people to get vaccinated and for the hesitant, any one bad story a physician might share with them could scare them into not getting it.

Or it could be that they just want the money from the vaccinations. Or that they are being required as part of some sort of government regulations to get a certain % of patients the shot.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Benko » Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:28 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:29 pm
I am sure the hospital's justification is that they want people to get vaccinated and for the hesitant, any one bad story a physician might share with them could scare them into not getting it.

Or it could be that they just want the money from the vaccinations. Or that they are being required as part of some sort of government regulations to get a certain % of patients the shot.
There are a lot of reasonable arguments one could make and if this were a coupla years ago they might be believable. However it's 2021 and the big picture ain't subtle.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by KayFaybe » Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:34 am

Benko wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:28 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:29 pm
I am sure the hospital's justification is that they want people to get vaccinated and for the hesitant, any one bad story a physician might share with them could scare them into not getting it.

Or it could be that they just want the money from the vaccinations. Or that they are being required as part of some sort of government regulations to get a certain % of patients the shot.
There are a lot of reasonable arguments one could make and if this were a coupla years ago they might be believable. However it's 2021 and the big picture ain't subtle.
It is how it has always been: all medical professionals have been paid off so as not to speak ill of the jab.

Oh, sure, they might come here and equivocate. But in professional settings?

Cowards. Utter cowards.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by dualstow » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:50 am

O0
RIP COLIN POWELL, 84.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:26 pm

If the medical industry simply refrained from speaking ill of the clot-shot... It would be a significant improvement from the current situation.

https://nationalfile.com/doctor-wants-t ... ng-to-die/


https://mobile.twitter.com/NationalFile ... 7703138308
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Benko » Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:54 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:26 pm
If the medical industry simply refrained from speaking ill of the clot-shot... It would be a significant improvement from the current situation.
This ain't an issue with medicine.

"By any means necessary".

A significant portion of articles in even major medical journals had significant problems--this has been known for awhile. Polluting medicine journals with politics is however relatively new and repulsive.

Shall we start a poll: A: dark age. B. conflict. C. submission.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by I Shrugged » Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:38 am

Is it The current view of science that a person who wants a booster must get one of the same brand as the prior vax? If so, is that the long term plan too?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by whatchamacallit » Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:40 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:38 am
Is it The current view of science that a person who wants a booster must get one of the same brand as the prior vax? If so, is that the long term plan too?
Sounds like they have already been mixing.

https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/202 ... d-vaccines

I would like to say I could care less but the whole thing is just so terrifying with the mandates.

I am hoping there are a lot more people out there who have already been infected got over it and the pandemic is just over for them.

California school requirements starting in 2022? The tyranny is never going to end.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:33 am

Progress report for the experimental Gene serum. It is effective... At degrading your health.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/not- ... ovid-cases
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:18 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:33 am
Progress report for the experimental Gene serum. It is effective... At degrading your health.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/not- ... ovid-cases
This seems to be arguing that it is ineffective at preventing Covid, not that it is effective at causing other problems. I thought Covid wasn't a big deal anyway??
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:11 pm

Those, with eyes to see, are learning that it's a much bigger deal for those who decided to play Fauci roulette.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:17 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:11 pm
Those, with eyes to see, are learning that it's a much bigger deal for those who decided to play Fauci roulette.
All you have to do is look at the weasel to see he's lying. It's a safe bet that the opposite of everything he says is likely to be true.

Covid would be gone from our lives in a few weeks if the testing, the "vaccines", and the mandates stopped.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by sophie » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:29 pm

The full article if anyone cares to read it:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-00808-7

I suspect that the positive association between vaccination levels and COVID cases has to do with the definition of a case and the amount of testing going on. There are several reasons why high-vacc areas would be expected to do more testing, which would artificially balloon the number of COVID cases.

It also suggests what we already know: the vaccine doesn't prevent infection. It just mitigates the clinical effects of infection. Which makes it worthwhile, since everyone is guaranteed to be repeatedly exposed to COVID 19. Trying to hide from it is ridiculous...like trying to hide from air. It's why ongoing mask mandates are the stupidest thing ever. Protecting yourself is a much better option - and it should be up to you how you do it. I personally am of the opinion that paying attention to controlling health risk factors and making sure of your vitamin D levels is safer and likely at least as good - if not better than - the vaccine. If you do it.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:38 pm

Since Maine and Vermont are experiencing record numbers of cases but yet are vaccinated at 84% and 89%, how much longer are we going to be told that this is a "pandemic of the unvaccinated"?

Of the laundry list of things that frustrate me, at the top is that so many things are found out to be untrue or simply pulled out of thin air (ie 6 feet for distancing or deep cleaning items thinking the virus spreads by touching infected surfaces) but yet more than a year later a significant number of people are still doing or repeating them. Like the old saying goes, it is much easier to lie to someone than convince them they have been lied to.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pp4me » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:00 pm

If you go to liberal news sites like CNN and MSNBC you get all kinds of stories about unvaccinated people dying of COVID, especially if they were anti-vaxxers.

If you go to conservative sites like Breitbart or Revolver you get all kinds of stories about people dying after taking the vaccine plus fully vaccinated people dying.

But people are supposed to do their own research and decide for themselves?

Right!
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