Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

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WiseOne
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Thu May 20, 2021 9:40 am

jswinner wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 8:05 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 7:28 pm
jswinner wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 7:01 pm
CDC now reports almost 3 million cases in ages 0-19.
There have been 30,000 hospitalizations in that age group. Though not "common", I would not define that as "extremely rare" either.

https://data.cdc.gov/Case-Surveillance/ ... -akqf/data
As some of us have mentioned many times in this long thread, "Covid hospitalization" does not necessarily mean the person was hospitalized because of Covid symptoms. It means they happened to test positive for Covid while admitted to the hospital for any reason. Remember, hospital policy for the past year has been to test all inpatients for Covid.

I therefore don't think anything very meaningful can be concluded from the "30,000 hospitalizations" statistic.
Unlike adult cases, almost 50 percent had no know conditions reported. So yeah, maybe they had compound fractures or the like. But the simpler answer is they were admitted with and because of COVID.
I was interested in this until I saw the following qualifier in the figure caption:

"No sampling was conducted among hospitalized children; therefore, the denominator for percentages of underlying medical conditions among children includes all pediatric cases with data on these conditions."

I'm not sure what that means except take the 47% figure with no underlying conditions with a very large grain of salt. It doesn't fit with the CDC's data which is another reason to view it with suspicion.

Otherwise, this would represent a 1% hospitalization rate among children testing positive for COVID. That seems very, very high to me given that people under age 24 account for 0.2% of COVID deaths. Something is funny about these numbers.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Thu May 20, 2021 9:47 am

WiseOne wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 9:40 am
Otherwise, this would represent a 1% hospitalization rate among children testing positive for COVID. That seems very, very high to me given that people under age 24 account for 0.2% of COVID deaths. Something is funny about these numbers.
Ohio has had a useful dashboard, particularly for kids:
https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal ... n/children

It looks like the hospitalization rate is right at 1%: 1,116 out of 107,639 at the moment. Only 6 or 7 deaths, which also lines up with the very low death rates.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by pp4me » Thu May 20, 2021 9:48 am

I can now report that I DO know someone personally who has gotten COVID - my sister and her boyfriend who ironically just moved from a big city to a remote, rural area in Tennessee to flee from all the madness. The boyfriend had to go to the hospital but was treated and released without being admitted. My sister says her symptoms were mild except for extreme fatigue from which she is still recovering. Neither had been vaccinated.

It doesn't count as firsthand knowledge but I also had dinner with a couple the other day and the wife reported that both of her parents and one of her sisters died from COVID in the Philippines.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Thu May 20, 2021 10:08 am

Xan wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 9:47 am
WiseOne wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 9:40 am
Otherwise, this would represent a 1% hospitalization rate among children testing positive for COVID. That seems very, very high to me given that people under age 24 account for 0.2% of COVID deaths. Something is funny about these numbers.
Ohio has had a useful dashboard, particularly for kids:
https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal ... n/children

It looks like the hospitalization rate is right at 1%: 1,116 out of 107,639 at the moment. Only 6 or 7 deaths, which also lines up with the very low death rates.
Just looked those #s up - yes about the same in NYC. I guess kids must have a lower bar to be hospitalized due to the anxiety factor, since they do well regardless.

Still don't buy the 47% with no other conditions claim though.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jswinner » Thu May 20, 2021 8:32 pm

The reported data is from the CDC: https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_5.html

This study: Hospitalization Rates and Characteristics of Children Aged <18 Years Hospitalized with Laboratory-Confirmed COVID-19 — COVID-NET, 14 States, March 1–July 25, 2020 reported just over 38% with know underlying medical conditions, leaving over 60% in the unknown category. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/ ... 32e3-H.pdf

A study of more recent data showing an increase in the rate of pediatric hospitalization https://www.healio.com/news/primary-car ... -increased

I could go on, but again, no amount of data or reasonably review will alter the narrative instilled in folks. There is sufficient actual data that clearly shows that severe COVID cases among pediatric aged individuals is not rare and the rate has evolved over the course of the pandemic The notion that making a vaccine available to children is criminal is absurd.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Sat May 22, 2021 10:06 am

Just read the below in a daily baseball newsletter I received.

Vinny

"Ohio’s vaccine lottery is working
As I mentioned in the past, Ohio has initiated a lottery to encourage vaccines. Starting next week it will give away $1 million to a vaccinated person and will do so for four more weeks after that. The state is going to give away five full-ride + expenses scholarships to state colleges and universities to five vaccinated minors as well.

This initiative led to a lot of media coverage, some of it mocking, some if it praise, some of it amused. Most of the responses I’ve seen have been along the lines of “well, it’ll probably work” because lotteries with big payouts tend to get outsized interest while the long odds against winning tend to be overlooked.

Seems that thinking was correct:

According to the Ohio Department of Health, vaccinations among residents age 16 and older increased 28% May 14-17 compared to the weekend prior � just dayss after the state announced it would raffle off $1 million prizes and college scholarships to residents who get the jab. Vaccines in that age group had dropped 25% May 7-10 from the previous weekend.

People being bad at math and thinking that a “99% survival rate” for COVID was somehow good are a big reason why there has been so much reluctance to act prudently in the face of the pandemic, including getting vaccinated. People being bad at math and thinking that a one in a million chance at winning a million bucks represents good odds are, fittingly, going to help us get out of it. "
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat May 22, 2021 11:36 am

Simonjester wrote: your papers please... https://www.businessinsider.com/oregon- ... ask-2021-5
My thinking is that unless they are compelled or subsidized somehow, businesses have no incentive to require vaccine passports (thus foregoing revenue from half of the US population).

There's an outside chance that maybe this is a blessing in disguise. It might accelerate the "Greater Idaho" movement. It might act as a honeypot to attract more vaccine & mask-aficionados to Portland (and away from other places). Extremely outside chance, but a guy can dream, right?
Simonjester wrote: Lower unemployment for wannabe fascist and petty tyrants who want jobs harassing people as a minimum wage security guard..
the homeless boom in CA already has created a uptick in this industry, every empty parking lot with a bit of inviting landscaping has a security guard already... (in the security industry employees defense, most seem more interested in standing there playing with their phones than being a problem)
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Mon May 24, 2021 4:19 pm

Indiana University has mandated the COVID-19 vaccine for all students, faculty, and staff beginning with the Fall 2021 semester.

Students that choose not to meet the requirement will have their class registration cancelled, access to facilities and systems terminated, and will not be allowed to participate in any on campus activity.

Faculty and staff who choose not to meet the requirement will no longer be able to be employed by Indiana University. Working remotely and not meeting the COVID-19 vaccine requirement is not an option.

I assume their army of lawyers is prepared for battle. Unfortunately these things take years to play out, well after the damage has been done.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon May 24, 2021 7:03 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 4:19 pm
Indiana University has mandated the COVID-19 vaccine for all students, faculty, and staff beginning with the Fall 2021 semester.

Students that choose not to meet the requirement will have their class registration cancelled, access to facilities and systems terminated, and will not be allowed to participate in any on campus activity.

Faculty and staff who choose not to meet the requirement will no longer be able to be employed by Indiana University. Working remotely and not meeting the COVID-19 vaccine requirement is not an option.

I assume their army of lawyers is prepared for battle. Unfortunately these things take years to play out, well after the damage has been done.
Should be interesting to see how this plays out.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Tue May 25, 2021 8:41 am

Yeah, my university did that too. The email that went out was basically an "I dare you to sue us" message. I hope someone does....it is an illegal move by any standard. I guess they're assuming that courts won't follow the law on this one, and I'll be most interested to find out.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by flyingpylon » Tue May 25, 2021 11:20 am

Indiana University had mandatory mitigation testing during the Fall 2020 and Spring 2021 semesters. Everyone had to be tested twice a week. They have done hundreds of thousands of tests and built their own labs to process the results. The average weekly positivity rate in 2021 for the main campus in Bloomington, IN has been under 0.5%. The "all time" average (back to Aug 2020) is 0.8%.

I don't see how mandating the injection of experimental vaccines can be "following the science", especially for young people like college students and especially when the long-term effects are unknown. It seems more like a way to force allegiance to the collective and to identify and expel anyone that dares to resist.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by jalanlong » Tue May 25, 2021 9:27 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 11:20 am
Indiana University had mandatory mitigation testing during the Fall 2020 and Spring 2021 semesters. Everyone had to be tested twice a week. They have done hundreds of thousands of tests and built their own labs to process the results. The average weekly positivity rate in 2021 for the main campus in Bloomington, IN has been under 0.5%. The "all time" average (back to Aug 2020) is 0.8%.

I don't see how mandating the injection of experimental vaccines can be "following the science", especially for young people like college students and especially when the long-term effects are unknown. It seems more like a way to force allegiance to the collective and to identify and expel anyone that dares to resist.
Uh someone apparently needs a trip to a ReEducation Camp.

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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Smith1776 » Thu May 27, 2021 3:21 pm

I got my jab 5 days ago. My joints and muscles were sore for a few days, but otherwise no serious adverse effects. I'm very glad to at least have some partial protection.

There has been an accumulation of reports and even some papers written about brain fog as a "long-haul" effect of COVID. This has been the scariest long-term impact I've read about so far. COVID has been around long enough that I think it's fairly safe to say that brain fog is an established long-term potential symptom at this point. However, it hasn't been around long enough to say whether these effects will be life long or not.

I'm acting under the assumption they may very well be, and that scares the crap out of me.

This brain fog is causing sufferers to perform significantly below average in cognitive tests of working memory, spatial reasoning, and the like. Imagine that being permanent. Get vaccinated, guys.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Thu May 27, 2021 7:53 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 3:21 pm

I got my jab 5 days ago. My joints and muscles were sore for a few days, but otherwise no serious adverse effects. I'm very glad to at least have some partial protection.

There has been an accumulation of reports and even some papers written about brain fog as a "long-haul" effect of COVID. This has been the scariest long-term impact I've read about so far. COVID has been around long enough that I think it's fairly safe to say that brain fog is an established long-term potential symptom at this point. However, it hasn't been around long enough to say whether these effects will be life long or not.

I'm acting under the assumption they may very well be, and that scares the crap out of me.

This brain fog is causing sufferers to perform significantly below average in cognitive tests of working memory, spatial reasoning, and the like. Imagine that being permanent. Get vaccinated, guys.


You are BACK!!!!

You had been missing from here for a month??!!

Now we need to AGAIN hear from Dualstow!! It's been about two months (at least) for him?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Smith1776 » Fri May 28, 2021 1:37 am

vnatale wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 7:53 pm

You are BACK!!!!

You had been missing from here for a month??!!

Now we need to AGAIN hear from Dualstow!! It's been about two months (at least) for him?
Indeed. I was disappointed to see that he had also not yet returned.

I hope he is staying safe, whatever he may be up to.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by murphy_p_t » Fri May 28, 2021 11:11 am

Should I be surprised?

https://www.barnhardt.biz/2021/05/28/to ... njections/

Haven't had time to verify this report. I'm certain that the enthusiasts will let me know if it's flawed reporting.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Don » Fri May 28, 2021 2:31 pm

vnatale wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 7:53 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 3:21 pm
I got my jab 5 days ago. My joints and muscles were sore for a few days, but otherwise no serious adverse effects. I'm very glad to at least have some partial protection.

There has been an accumulation of reports and even some papers written about brain fog as a "long-haul" effect of COVID. This has been the scariest long-term impact I've read about so far. COVID has been around long enough that I think it's fairly safe to say that brain fog is an established long-term potential symptom at this point. However, it hasn't been around long enough to say whether these effects will be life long or not.

I'm acting under the assumption they may very well be, and that scares the crap out of me.

This brain fog is causing sufferers to perform significantly below average in cognitive tests of working memory, spatial reasoning, and the like. Imagine that being permanent. Get vaccinated, guys.
You are BACK!!!!

You had been missing from here for a month??!!

Now we need to AGAIN hear from Dualstow!! It's been about two months (at least) for him?
Maybe you drove him away?
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by Xan » Fri May 28, 2021 2:43 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 11:11 am
Should I be surprised?

https://www.barnhardt.biz/2021/05/28/to ... njections/

Haven't had time to verify this report. I'm certain that the enthusiasts will let me know if it's flawed reporting.

Is an enthusiast somebody who considers numbers and what they mean, or somebody who reflexively posts an article that on the surface appears to confirm what he already believes?

Why Number Needed to Treat Can Be Misleading for Vaccines
The NNT computed on the basis of the vaccine trial's data is not an accurate estimate of the NNT in the real world, because people will continue to be at risk for months or potentially years — much longer than the vaccine trial participants were followed.
The second issue (less appreciated but more important) is that vaccine trials typically use an "event-driven" analysis approach, meaning that efficacy analyses are performed after a prespecified number of observed events. The absolute risk reduction is therefore bounded at a low number, as explained below.
Meaning that the Number Needed to Treat from a vaccine study is always a lower bound, not even an attempt at the actual number. Consider:
For a 100% effective vaccine to demonstrate a 20% ARR, the trial would have to wait until 20% of the placebo arm had contracted the disease.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by vnatale » Sat May 29, 2021 8:04 am

In part from one of the places I go to for live music...

Vinny


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Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Sun May 30, 2021 9:41 am

Desert wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 10:05 pm
murphy_p_t wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 11:11 am
Should I be surprised?

https://www.barnhardt.biz/2021/05/28/to ... njections/

Haven't had time to verify this report. I'm certain that the enthusiasts will let me know if it's flawed reporting.
Was this posted in jest? I'm hoping that most forum members can recognize pretty quickly that this isn't a reasonable site or source.
I'm not familiar with the Lancet but it appears to have a high level of notoriety if not respect. Looks like they've been publishing medical studies and associated works for nearly 200 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lancet
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Sun May 30, 2021 9:49 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 11:11 am
Should I be surprised?

https://www.barnhardt.biz/2021/05/28/to ... njections/

Haven't had time to verify this report. I'm certain that the enthusiasts will let me know if it's flawed reporting.
80-90 doses of "vaccine" to prevent 1 case of coronavirus illness certainly sounds less impressive than 95% efficacy.

It also massively skews the risk-reward ratio of vaccine related side effect to coronavirus symptoms.

Hey I've got an injection that has 99.999% efficacy against lightning bolt strikes. Sure there are side effects, but no where near as bad as if you get hit by lightning.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Sun May 30, 2021 10:07 am

SomeDude wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 9:49 am
murphy_p_t wrote:
Fri May 28, 2021 11:11 am
Should I be surprised?

https://www.barnhardt.biz/2021/05/28/to ... njections/

Haven't had time to verify this report. I'm certain that the enthusiasts will let me know if it's flawed reporting.
80-90 doses of "vaccine" to prevent 1 case of coronavirus illness certainly sounds less impressive than 95% efficacy.

It also massively skews the risk-reward ratio of vaccine related side effect to coronavirus symptoms.

Hey I've got an injection that has 99.999% efficacy against lightning bolt strikes. Sure there are side effects, but no where near as bad as if you get hit by lightning.
If I'm misunderstanding the conclusions of the report someone please educate me. I read it in 60 seconds and spent 4 min posting. That's my 5 min of time allowance for covid today
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by WiseOne » Sun May 30, 2021 11:15 am

Smith1776 wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 3:21 pm
This brain fog is causing sufferers to perform significantly below average in cognitive tests of working memory, spatial reasoning, and the like. Imagine that being permanent. Get vaccinated, guys.
I'm not sure what to think about long-haul COVID. A good friend of mine is a neuropsychologist who is studying these patients, and she tells me she's pretty convinced it's real. However, I also see a TON of patients with functional neurological symptoms, many of which are similar to long haul COVID symptoms and are nothing new. As in, it used to be called chronic Lyme. There are a whole host of quacks who used to "treat" chronic Lyme with things like vitamin infusions (cash only, please) who are now switching over to long haul COVID as their dx of choice. I also don't discount whether there might be a form of COVID PTSD going on....not too surprising, if you get a condition that the newspapers are reporting hysterically about every day, and you're someone who is psychiatrically fragile to begin with.

Of course, linking COVID with these symptoms is the fun part. Apparently many long haulers never actually had COVID or even tested negative for it. Plus there's the whole issue of what defines a COVID case.

Finally, please understand that there is NO evidence that the vaccines can prevent "long haul COVID". They don't prevent infection, just the emergence of the typical respiratory symptoms. That's all that's been actually looked at.

Just some things to keep in mind. Not to dissuade anyone from the vaccine (I got it myself) but just to make sure that proper info is out there. At least on this forum. Also I'll throw something else out there: there's some evidence that the spike proteins with their furin cleavage site are what invade the CNS - and those, or some of them, are in the vaccine.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Sun May 30, 2021 1:03 pm

Desert wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 11:34 am
Right, I wasn't referring to Lancet, rather the linked page that offers the following interpretation of the Lancet document:
Ahhh. Yes i know even less about the linked site.

This demonstrates the fun people can have with statistics.

If a nonvaccinated population has an non-illness rate of 98% and a vaccinated population is at 99% the following statements are all true:

1. A vaccinated person is 99% safe against getting sick from Covid.

2. Getting the vaccine reduces your chance of getting sick from covid by 50%.

3. Taking the vaccine only increases your chances of staying healthy by 1%.

It should be obvious that vaccine promoters will only state point #1 which is a totally useless and missleading statement by itself.

Statement #2 might be relevant to obese, very elderly or other groups for which covid sickness is particularly troublesome.

Statement #3 is most applicable to the general population that is at very low risk of anything other than flu like symptoms should they get Covid. The risk reward for taking the jab is a lot different when viewed in this context.

Accepting the known risks of the injection AND the unknown risks for a 1--2% increased chance of avoiding getting sick from Covid looks completely insane to me. It's like mass insanity caused by media driven fear, dissinfo, censorship, shaming, social conformity etc. A huge portion of the population is insane though. We have a vegetable for a president and he just replaced an orange reality TV star.
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Re: Reasons why I will not be getting injected for the Wuhan

Post by SomeDude » Sun May 30, 2021 8:01 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 2:22 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 1:03 pm
Desert wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 11:34 am
Right, I wasn't referring to Lancet, rather the linked page that offers the following interpretation of the Lancet document:
Ahhh. Yes i know even less about the linked site.

This demonstrates the fun people can have with statistics.

If a nonvaccinated population has an non-illness rate of 98% and a vaccinated population is at 99% the following statements are all true:

1. A vaccinated person is 99% safe against getting sick from Covid.

2. Getting the vaccine reduces your chance of getting sick from covid by 50%.

3. Taking the vaccine only increases your chances of staying healthy by 1%.

It should be obvious that vaccine promoters will only state point #1 which is a totally useless and missleading statement by itself.

Statement #2 might be relevant to obese, very elderly or other groups for which covid sickness is particularly troublesome.

Statement #3 is most applicable to the general population that is at very low risk of anything other than flu like symptoms should they get Covid. The risk reward for taking the jab is a lot different when viewed in this context.

Accepting the known risks of the injection AND the unknown risks for a 1--2% increased chance of avoiding getting sick from Covid looks completely insane to me. It's like mass insanity caused by media driven fear, dissinfo, censorship, shaming, social conformity etc. A huge portion of the population is insane though. We have a vegetable for a president and he just replaced an orange reality TV star.
Except the non-vaccinated population does NOT have a 98% non-illness rate. And if it did, your #2 above makes no sense, which is in direct contradiction of your #3 above.
I did say "if" PG. I don't know what the exact rate is, but supposedly only 34 million positive tests have occured in the US. How many people tested positive multiple times? Of that group how many of those actually got sick, less than half? A quarter? Is it 97% non-illness instead? A huge percentage are asymptomatic and another huge percentage only have very mild symptoms. Do we count a day with the sniffles or a mild fever as illness? I would think the hospitalization rate or serious illness is less than 1% of the population so i was just going with double to be safe.

I've heard they count people who test positive but are in the hospital for other reasons as hospitalization but who knows with all the disinfo.

I guess my point is, the actual percentage chance of getting sick in any meaningful way from Covid is very low to begin with. If the vaccine makes it even lower the risk is now miniscule. That opens up the door for all kinds of fun with the numbers depending on who wants to sell their story.

Lets say i was way off and the nonillness rate is only 97% but with the vaccine it jumps to 99%. Point #1 is still true, take the vaccine and there's a 99% chance you don't get sick from covid.

Point #2 is now "the vaccine reduces your chance of getting sick by 66%.

Point 3 is now "the vaccine improves your chances of staying healthy by 2%.

They are different numbers now agreed but they still illustrate how the same true statements can lead to very different conclusions for people.

A 66% reduction in the chance of getting sick will be very important to the segment of the population where getting sick poses a serious risk.

A 2% increase in your chance of staying healthy, from 97% to 99% might not be worth accepting the risks associated with the shots for other parts of the population.
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