Frustrated with idiots

[SmallPotatoes]

As I recall in reading about grains somewhere, the theory about them being bad for you is based upon the idea that grains trigger inflammation responses in humans just as something like poison ivy does, though in much more subtle ways.

This defense mechanism is supposed to make us not want to eat them, but rather than paying attention to this warning sign, we have instead cultivated these grains on a massive scale and when the various inflammation-related illnesses pop up, we just treat them with creams, steroids and other anti-inflammation remedies.

Anyone have any more information on this line of thinking?

It's probably bunk, actually. 

Consider that in Japan a traditional diet is mostly rice and vegetables and Japan has fewer cases of illness, skin issues, heart problems, stroke, obesity, etc. than the US by a thousand to one. 

Also, consider our anatomy and it becomes clearer what we're evolved to eat.  First off, we have 32 teeth, 4 sharp and piercing teeth (the K-9's) used to tear or pierce, the rest made for grinding...grinding grains, nuts, and vegetables.  Our mouths, unlike other carnivorous critters, are relatively small--think about a shark or alligator, with a mouth that can open near 90 degrees, with rows of jagged teeth or fangs, with huge facial muscles for working their massive jaws.  Do we resemble that at all?  Our intestines, since it was mentioned, are also relatively long, which is unconventional in meat-eating animals.  Finally, a nice quote from a paper all should read by : 

The saliva of carnivorous animals does not contain digestive enzymes. Human saliva contains the carbohy- drate–digesting enzyme, salivary amylase. This enzyme is responsible for the majority of starch digestion.

...human beings have the gastrointestinal tract structure of a “committed”? herbivore. Humankind does not show the mixed structural features one expects and ?nds in anatomical omnivores such as bears and raccoons. Thus, from comparing the gastrointestinal tract of humans to that of carnivores, herbivores and omnivores we must conclude that humankind’s GI tract is designed for a purely plant-food diet.

-Mills, The Comparative Anatomy of Eating

 

Now, that you've read all that, check out any of the documentaries on the American diet and prepare to be shocked.  I recommend the new release Forks over Knives.  Or check our Eating Animals by Jonathan Safron Foer.

Many here have enlightened themselves in the investing world, but I beseech you to do the same for your diet and health.  Don't be like the guys on THAT forum.

[moda0306]

Great discussion here... interesting article, Potatoes.

[Indices]

For those proponents of vegan diets how do you explain the weak bones vegan have? I buy vegetarianism but veganism is a hard sell for me, no matter how big or small the human mouth is. Also you could argue that our mouth size is small because we've been eating COOKED meat for thousands of years not because we were once herbivores. Any look at the bones of caveman ancestors shows we were built for eating mostly raw meat and whatever fruits and vegetables we could gather while we were chasing mammoths and neanderthals.

[moda0306]

If you want my cottage cheese you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers... other than that I'm all ears.

[MediumTex]

As I recall in reading about grains somewhere, the theory about them being bad for you is based upon the idea that grains trigger inflammation responses in humans just as something like poison ivy does, though in much more subtle ways.

This defense mechanism is supposed to make us not want to eat them, but rather than paying attention to this warning sign, we have instead cultivated these grains on a massive scale and when the various inflammation-related illnesses pop up, we just treat them with creams, steroids and other anti-inflammation remedies.

Anyone have any more information on this line of thinking?

It's probably bunk, actually. 

Consider that in Japan a traditional diet is mostly rice and vegetables and Japan has fewer cases of illness, skin issues, heart problems, stroke, obesity, etc. than the US by a thousand to one. 

But doesn't that just suggest that the inflammation response I am referring to may be limited to corn and wheat?

[moda0306]

Drinking beer often gives me a headache the next day, and with my digestive system in agony... this includes rice beer. There has to be something legit about our bodies rejecting grains.

I kid.

[SmallPotatoes]

Great questions, and while I'm no expert on the matter I believe that answers to your questions are available in literature and video documentary.

To try at a few...

@MedTex: Yes, whole grains may trigger an inflammation response, and we do see people with a gluten intolerance.  My understanding is that our body's immune system mistakes proteins in the following food items as harmful, foreign particles.  They Mayo Clinic provides this bit:

Ninety percent of food allergies are related to soy, wheat, peanuts, fish, eggs, tree nuts and milk...
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/35731 ... z1XIFmuwlB

 

I'm skeptical of the intestinal timebombs you mentioned, but I won't rule it out.  Anymore, people seem to have strange reactions to just about everything, and a pure plant-based diet seems to be the only safe-haven.  Whatever the case, I cannot imagine eating a loaf of bread a week any worse than having a hormone-injected, ammonia washed, artificially flavored, chicken sandwich.

@Indices:  Check out Forks over Knives to see an example of how milk actually robs calcium from the bones.  You will be shocked.  Also, I agree I've met many a malnourished vegan, but veganism isn't something most people are good at.  Most people who try it don't understand basic nutrition, don't do enough research, and go vegan for the wrong reasons.  However, there are others that do it quite well without feeling they're missing anything:

http://www.meettheshannons.net/  and http://www.meettheshannons.net/p/pantry.html

@moda: No one it going to take your cottage cheese.

[FarmerD]

"Healthy whole grains" is pure marketing fiction, I now believe.

As it is depicted on the front of cereal boxes and bags of chips, absolutely.  However the form of the grain makes all the difference.  A beneficial whole grain should be as close to it's non-pulverized form as possible.  As examples, oat groats, kamut berries, bulgur wheat (all in whole form) are generally fine because it is tough to break down the hulls in the digestive system, thus blood sugar never really spikes to a significant degree.  I use all three of these to make my pail of whole grain & low GI fruit gruel every morning.  I need to cook the grains in a rice cooker in advance though.  When these grains are pulverized into a powdered form, much of this benefit is lost.  Of course that doesn't stop marketers from touting their whole grain goodness anyway.  

Bottom line, foods made with whole grains should be chunky and dense to reap their benefits.  If you are eating whole grains in their proper form with regularity, your toilet should hate you.

I've tested my glucose levels many time comparing whole grains products (like unprocessed unsweetened oatmeal) to processed bleached bread.  Both skyrocket my blood sugar to the same degree.  From the Dr Bernstein forums, people universally report the same thing.  People there (and me) also note that wheat bread or oatmeal spikes blood glucose higher than a Snickers bar.  I assume the same holds true for nondiabetics as well.  Dr Davis indicates basically the same thing applies to nondiabetics in the article below.

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/201 ... e-160.html

Maybe you have your metabolism fined tuned to such a degree through your eating/exercise regimen that your blood glucose doesn't spike. Or perhaps there's some type of unprocessed grain that doesn't spike glucose levels.  I'd like to try it.  Any products you might suggest? 

[stone]

I saw something on TV about gut inflammation being due to us not having parasitic worms these days. They gave people with really bad gut inflammation worms and it cured them. Basically you need to be running for your life, hungry and infested with worms. Then you will be healthy .

It reminds me of hearing someone on the radio saying that they remarked to Margret Thatcher that her office was freezing cold. She replied that "one should always be a little bit cold and a little bit hungry".

[SmallPotatoes]

Bacteria in our guts would eat our flesh if it came in contact, but our many systems, organs, cells, and et al. all live (mostly) in harmony to power the human body.  Fascinating if you ask me.  Beyond incredible.

[stone]

Small Potatoes, we have lots of bacteria in our bodies not just in our guts but right inside us. Neutrophil cells eat them and so keep them under control. If you lack neutrophils, then you quickly get sepsis and die.

Cancer is when one of our cells adopts rugged individualism and evades the controls.

[Coffee]

Drinking beer often gives me a headache the next day, and with my digestive system in agony... this includes rice beer. There has to be something legit about our bodies rejecting grains.

I kid.

Moda: I suffer from a chronic migraine condition, mostly triggered by MSG and barometric pressure flux.  (I've tried eating gluten-free.  Didn't help.)

Most beers give me a headache, too.  Negra Modelo does not.

[bigamish]

I'm confused on a few points:

The saliva of carnivorous animals does not contain digestive enzymes. Human saliva contains the carbohy- drate–digesting enzyme, salivary amylase. This enzyme is responsible for the majority of starch digestion.

Is Mills' implication that salivary amylase (carbohydrate digesting enzyme) = dedicated herbivore?  Baboons and chimpanzees have salivary amylase, yet they are both omnivores in their natural environment that will happily eat meat (both species hunt other vertebrates) when they can get it.

...human beings have the gastrointestinal tract structure of a “committed”? herbivore. Humankind does not show the mixed structural features one expects and ?nds in anatomical omnivores such as bears and raccoons. Thus, from comparing the gastrointestinal tract of humans to that of carnivores, herbivores and omnivores we must conclude that humankind’s GI tract is designed for a purely plant-food diet.

Must we conclude this?  I don't see much support for this statement, and Mills' logic is somewhat fuzzy to me.  What defines the digestive tract of an "anatomical omnivore" or "dedicated herbivore"?  In mammals adapted for plant eating, I'd expect extra fermentation chambers for better cellulose digestion, a longer intestinal tract (on a size-relative basis), and more robust chewing teeth.  All of these are found in ruminant mammals like sheep, cows, and deer, and most are found in rodents.  Plant-biased reptiles also achieve most of these adaptive traits.  Human digestive tracts are reasonably comparable to other omnivorous primates like chimpanzees, although on a size-corrected basis human tracts are actually shorter.  Also, aside from the enlarged canines (which are used for attack & defense) our tooth anatomy is not so different from our closest genetic/anatomical relative the omnivorous chimpanzee.  

Bacteria in our guts would eat our flesh if it came in contact, but our many systems, organs, cells, and et al. all live (mostly) in harmony to power the human body.

Untrue, assuming I am understanding you correctly.  Our intestinal lining is thinner and more delicate than our skin, so from a structural perspective bacteria should have the capacity to do more damage in the intestine.  Native bacteria in the gut live off of molecules that our own digestive systems have conveniently provided for them.  These bacteria are simply not very good at breaking down complex molecules associated with living & intact epithelial (= body lining) tissue.  They do, however, absorb molecules of simple molecular form that are delivered to them.

Besides, if intestinal bacteria were flesh-eating then diaper-changing, colostomy bag explosions, and off target butt-wipes would be considerably more hazardous events.

[moda0306]

Negra Modelo is one of the best beers, period.

Good call, Coffee.

[Lone Wolf]

Besides, if intestinal bacteria were flesh-eating then diaper-changing, colostomy bag explosions, and off target butt-wipes would be considerably more hazardous events.

As the parent of a very young baby I am greatly relieved that it does not work this way.  I'd have certainly met my maker thanks to an incident a couple of evenings ago.  Good points above.

@Indices:  Check out Forks over Knives to see an example of how milk actually robs calcium from the bones.  You will be shocked.

Are there studies that back this up?  I hear this every once in a while but haven't really ever seen anything too specific.

As someone who will gleefully shove a pound of cottage cheese or two pounds of yogurt down my pie-hole, I'd like to know if there's anything to this.

If you want my cottage cheese you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers...

I can't believe I'm not the only one on the forum that eats that stuff!  I've had a number of people stop me in the grocery and ask me what I do "with all that cottage cheese".

[l82start]

i am a fan of cottage cheese, but i suspect its mostly because its a great excuse to eat a big dollop of mayonnaise....

[moda0306]

Mayo & Cottage cheese?  I've never heard of that combo.

Cottage cheese is one of the best foods.  Low fat.. low carb... great protein... great taste.  I love it.

[Storm]

"Healthy whole grains" is pure marketing fiction, I now believe.

As it is depicted on the front of cereal boxes and bags of chips, absolutely.  However the form of the grain makes all the difference.  A beneficial whole grain should be as close to it's non-pulverized form as possible.  As examples, oat groats, kamut berries, bulgur wheat (all in whole form) are generally fine because it is tough to break down the hulls in the digestive system, thus blood sugar never really spikes to a significant degree.  I use all three of these to make my pail of whole grain & low GI fruit gruel every morning.  I need to cook the grains in a rice cooker in advance though.  When these grains are pulverized into a powdered form, much of this benefit is lost.  Of course that doesn't stop marketers from touting their whole grain goodness anyway.  

Bottom line, foods made with whole grains should be chunky and dense to reap their benefits.  If you are eating whole grains in their proper form with regularity, your toilet should hate you.

This is the key.  The GI of a given carb is directly proportional to how easy it is for our bodies to digest.  If a food is made with white flour in powdered form, you might as well be eating sugar because your body will turn it into sugar almost immediately and your blood sugar will spike, causing you to crash shortly after, which will give you hunger pains causing you to snack on more high GI carbs.  It's a feedback loop which causes obesity and type II diabetes.

The rules are very simple - eat only whole grains that are processed as minimally as possible.  The only bread I eat is sprouted wheat bread.  It is not soft at all (any bread that is soft or mushes in your hand will spike your blood sugar, regardless of if it is advertised as "whole wheat" or not).  Brown rice is a great grain - but it takes about 45 minutes to cook properly as opposed to just a few minutes for white rice.  Beans are highly underrated as a source of healthy carbs and protein that don't spike your blood sugar.

In my case, my brother was pre-diabetic and was eating a lot of sweets, soft drinks, etc.  He went on a low carb diet and it worked for him, but low carb can be bad - he was only eating meats and vegatables.  Without any carbs you can have that feeling of no energy all day because your body can't easily burn fat.

What I did was just replace all carbs with low GI carbs.  So, for example, I eat only brown rice, lentils, beans, etc.  For breakfast I eat whole grains like steel cut oats, buckwheat, quinoa, etc.  I eat 3 smaller meals and 2 snacks every day, and never go without food for longer than 2-3 hours.  My snacks are just a handful of almonds or nuts and a piece of fruit.  The key is to never let your blood sugar spike by eating bad carbs/sugar and also never let it drop to dangerously low levels.  Eating every 2-3 hours keeps your blood sugar stable all day.

If you do this, pounds just melt off.  You don't even have to exercise and you will get to a healthy weight.  Like you said, diet more than exercise is critical.  When your blood sugar is steady, your body burns fat on it's own.  An hour of intense cardio is only going to burn a few hundred calories at most, so you would have to do this for a couple weeks just to lose a pound (1 pound of fat = ~3500 calories).

[Storm]

I've tested my glucose levels many time comparing whole grains products (like unprocessed unsweetened oatmeal) to processed bleached bread.  Both skyrocket my blood sugar to the same degree.  From the Dr Bernstein forums, people universally report the same thing.  People there (and me) also note that wheat bread or oatmeal spikes blood glucose higher than a Snickers bar.  I assume the same holds true for nondiabetics as well.  Dr Davis indicates basically the same thing applies to nondiabetics in the article below.

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/201 ... e-160.html

Maybe you have your metabolism fined tuned to such a degree through your eating/exercise regimen that your blood glucose doesn't spike. Or perhaps there's some type of unprocessed grain that doesn't spike glucose levels.  I'd like to try it.  Any products you might suggest?   

FarmerD, have you tested your blood glucose levels after eating steel-cut oats?  Steel-cut oats are the only oat grain that properly leaves the husk on.  Even if you eat the plain Quaker Oats (not instant) you are getting a grain that has the husk removed, so the GI is high and will spike your blood sugar.

It's very important to get REAL WHOLE grains, not what is advertised as "whole wheat."  Usually real whole grains are unattractive to most consumers because of the cooking time involved (45 minutes for steel-cut oats).

[stone]

Storm, great tips about grains. Although exersize does not consume much energy whilst you are doing it, anaerobic endurance type exersize (such as repeated sprints without recovery imbetween) can alter your physiology for the whole day, causing you to become insulin sensitive and to not put on weight.
I can remember see a doctor on TV saying that the most important exersize to do was pushing yourself away from the dinner table .

[Storm]

By the way, this is a great discussion, and I'm continually amazed at the intelligence and quality of posts on this forum.  I guess I should have expected that the type of person who would optimize their portfolio would also optimize their diet as well.

In case anyone else is interested in how I learned about a whole food natural diet that helps to promote weight loss, I read the book Ultrametabolism, by Dr. Mark Hyman.  He explains the medical reasons why our bodies systems work the way they do, and how most processed foods cause us to gain weight.  I felt a lot more comfortable with making these radical changes in my diet after I understood that this guy was not some quack, but that he based his diet on real medical research.  The diet is a safe diet that can be followed for the rest of your life, and is not really a quick weight loss diet, although you could lose weight using it.

In case you are interested, you can buy the book on Amazon:  http://www.amazon.com/Ultrametabolism-S ... 0743272560

Read some of the over 225 reviews on Amazon and check it out if you are interested.

[l82start]

Mayo & Cottage cheese?  I've never heard of that combo.

Cottage cheese is one of the best foods.  Low fat.. low carb... great protein... great taste.  I love it.

it doesn't make it healthier, but it sure does make it taste great 

(it does taste good alone too, but better is better)

[SmallPotatoes]

ATTN All: Please don't consider me the final authority on anything, but do know that we (wife and me) have done and continue to do thorough research on our diet and lifestyle choices.

Read the ADA's report on vegetarian diets,  read Foer's Eating Animals, read the China Study by T. Colin Campbell Phd.  I didn't want to be vegan, I fought it and cast stones at vegan Jesus, but I can't deny the research done today by real, concerned scientists. 

You won't see this stuff on the evening news (just like you won't see a broker promoting the PP) because it doesn't make money, it doesn't fuel the industry's interests.  We can make a fully electric car, but we don't. Why? We know that diet can reverse cancer, but we would rather sell patients chemo and hospital stays. Why?  We know that raising animals for consumption produces new viruses, diseases, and health issues, but we continue on anyway.  Why?

Read up, people.  This information is our there.

[Gumby]

I obviously can't handle the ignorance...

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 50#1194850

Feel free to leave your 2¢.