Abortion and 19th Century Science

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Mountaineer
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Re: Abortion and 19th Century Science

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:08 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:23 am
Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:57 am
vnatale wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:33 pm

<snip>

I'll conclude with these questions (and you can tell me if they are valid questions to ask at all).

Are these good measures for our president, who in this particular case happens to be Trump?

1. Would you want your child to marry him?
2. Would you want to be a co-worker of his?
3. And, maybe the biggest one of all. You have worked all your life to create this highly successful business which you own 100%. You've done the whole entrepreneurial thing working way too many 50, 60 hour weeks for years on end. Now it's time for you to sit back, enjoy the fruits of all that work, and turn over the day-to-day running of the company to a president while you remain 100% owner. Would you turn over the reins of the company to the brilliant businessman aka Donald Trump? A man who turns 74 years old in five months from now. Before you answer, your equity in your company represents your ENTIRE net worth. You going to do it??!! I would certainly NOT do it! And, I certainly don't want him running my country! (Nor do I want Biden / Warren / Bernie doing so, either!)

Vinny
I'm not Libertarian666 but I can't resist responding. You ask:

Are these good measures for our president?

1. No - (I want a leader for president, not a son-in-law who "might" think he has to be nice to me); way too subjective a question/criteria.
2. No - this is another question based on "nice guy or not" as being the most important qualification; way too subjective a question/criteria.
3. No - I do not want a king or dictator for a leader (regardless of potential ageism bias); I prefer the Constitutional Republic we currently have with all the various checks and balances; ditto for a corporate CEO/Board of Directors/Stockholders model aimed at mutual accountability and responsibility. I would never turn over my assets to a "one-person in charge" company. Concentration of power in one person rarely works out well.

Objective criteria shoud be used for presidential selection purposes, i.e. the objective results the person has accomplished in their life/career AND the trend of his predecessors accomplishments should be examined, the hand dealt when coming into a given situation. Favorable results are usually achieved by those able to learn from their mistakes, get up and try again, and lead regardless of a "nice guy" persona. Being a nice guy is a bonus, not the base pay. I would say that being a "just" guy ("just" being based upon objective criteria) along with a "mercy" guy when others screw up is valuable.

YMMV :)
1 & 2 are far more than being a "nice guy". They take into account the character of the person. Is the person reliable, fair and does his / her fair share, trustworthy, upstanding, consistent, responsible, effective in all relationships (personal and business / organizational), hard working (whether at work / as a spouse / as a parent), possess requisite intelligence for the task at hand (again, whether at work / as spouse / as a parent), health oriented, not a narcissist but selfless...I hope that paints a better picture of what I mean beyond being a "nice guy".

3. But in my hypothetical, you HAD BEEN the one person in whom all the power was concentrated. That's typical and the norm in thousands and thousands of the successful businesses in our country. So, answer the hypothetical question as posed. You are only going to hire one person to fulfill this needed role for you for where you are at this point in your life. Would you hire Donald Trump today to fulfill that role for you?

I totally agree that objective criteria should be used in choosing a president. I don't think the vast electorate looks upon being the president as an actual job. That is one of my main objections to Bernie and his supporters. It's a real job; it's not one which is confined to simply running around giving speeches whenever one feels like it.

Vinny
Re your 1 & 2 comment: Who gets to decide the criteria you propose and if one measures up? (Can't just be on what YOU think or feel if it is to be truly objective and outside a person, that is the external source that is agreed upon by everyone as THE criteria).

Re 3. Yes, I thought about that. I know I'm currently in charge of my "business"; I know it better than any other person and I am not a mind reader to select who would have my desires. No one person can replace me. Thus my comments above about not concentrating power in one person to run my "business" in my stead. Your hypothetical is not relevant in my worldview; thus, I answered "No" to it being a valid measure for selecting Donald Trump to run my business, or the country.

... M
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Abortion and 19th Century Science

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:15 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:53 am
vnatale wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:33 pm

I'll conclude with these questions (and you can tell me if they are valid questions to ask at all).
Are these good measures for our president, who in this particular case happens to be Trump?

1. Would you want your child to marry him?
2. Would you want to be a co-worker of his?
3. And, maybe the biggest one of all. You have worked all your life to create this highly successful business which you own 100%. You've done the whole entrepreneurial thing working way too many 50, 60 hour weeks for years on end. Now it's time for you to sit back, enjoy the fruits of all that work, and turn over the day-to-day running of the company to a president while you remain 100% owner. Would you turn over the reins of the company to the brilliant businessman aka Donald Trump? A man who turns 74 years old in five months from now. Before you answer, your equity in your company represents your ENTIRE net worth. You going to do it??!! I would certainly NOT do it! And, I certainly don't want him running my country! (Nor do I want Biden / Warren / Bernie doing so, either!)

Vinny
1. Irrelevant to whether he is a good President. He has been a good provider for his wives and children but so what?
2. Yes, assuming I was capable of doing the tasks he needed me to do. He is by all accounts a strict boss but one who rewards excellence.
3. He wouldn't understand the technical aspects of my business, so I wouldn't want him to be CEO, although he would be a great Chief Marketing Officer. However, he is doing a very good job overall as CEO of the US federal government, which of course is not a tech company.
1. Faithful to his wives / his marriage vows? Respectful towards his wives? Again this reveals character. Why should I trust someone in his presidential duties when he's proven to be untrustworthy in his marital relationships? The character somehow changes when he's doing presidential duties?

2. I said co-worker, not boss. Think of your favorite co-workers. You'd see him performing similarly? Becoming one of your favorite co-workers? My favorite co-workers are the ones who have been the high producers in the workplace. And, there is a lot (of good qualities) that goes along with being a high producer.

3. Does he understand the technical aspects of our country? What were his prior qualifications? What has he done to buttress any areas in which he was weak to perform his duties?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Abortion and 19th Century Science

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:36 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:31 am
vnatale wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:15 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:53 am
vnatale wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:33 pm

I'll conclude with these questions (and you can tell me if they are valid questions to ask at all).
Are these good measures for our president, who in this particular case happens to be Trump?

1. Would you want your child to marry him?
2. Would you want to be a co-worker of his?
3. And, maybe the biggest one of all. You have worked all your life to create this highly successful business which you own 100%. You've done the whole entrepreneurial thing working way too many 50, 60 hour weeks for years on end. Now it's time for you to sit back, enjoy the fruits of all that work, and turn over the day-to-day running of the company to a president while you remain 100% owner. Would you turn over the reins of the company to the brilliant businessman aka Donald Trump? A man who turns 74 years old in five months from now. Before you answer, your equity in your company represents your ENTIRE net worth. You going to do it??!! I would certainly NOT do it! And, I certainly don't want him running my country! (Nor do I want Biden / Warren / Bernie doing so, either!)

Vinny
1. Irrelevant to whether he is a good President. He has been a good provider for his wives and children but so what?
2. Yes, assuming I was capable of doing the tasks he needed me to do. He is by all accounts a strict boss but one who rewards excellence.
3. He wouldn't understand the technical aspects of my business, so I wouldn't want him to be CEO, although he would be a great Chief Marketing Officer. However, he is doing a very good job overall as CEO of the US federal government, which of course is not a tech company.
1. Faithful to his wives / his marriage vows? Respectful towards his wives? Again this reveals character. Why should I trust someone in his presidential duties when he's proven to be untrustworthy in his marital relationships? The character somehow changes when he's doing presidential duties?

2. I said co-worker, not boss. Think of your favorite co-workers. You'd see him performing similarly? Becoming one of your favorite co-workers? My favorite co-workers are the ones who have been the high producers in the workplace. And, there is a lot (of good qualities) that goes along with being a high producer.

3. Does he understand the technical aspects of our country? What were his prior qualifications? What has he done to buttress any areas in which he was weak to perform his duties?

Vinny
1. Still irrelevant to whether he is a good President.
2. He would probably be a very good co-worker. He is very hard working and co-operative if you are on the same team as he is.
3. He understands the technical aspects of the federal government well enough to do a better job than any of his predecessors in the last 100 years, so he gets a good score on that as well.
I think we end here. I respect your obvious intelligence. We have different judgments and have each stated them. We are not going convince one another of the other's judgements.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Abortion and 19th Century Science

Post by vnatale » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:28 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:05 am
vnatale wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:36 am
of his predecessors in the last 100 years, so he gets a good score on that as well.
I think we end here. I respect your obvious intelligence. We have different judgments and have each stated them. We are not going convince one another of the other's judgements.

Vinny
Sounds fine to me.
[/quote]

Plus, you have the FAR superior writing abilities and the greater ability to express yourself, putting me at a disadvantage!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Abortion and 19th Century Science

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:01 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:28 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:05 am
vnatale wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:36 am
of his predecessors in the last 100 years, so he gets a good score on that as well.

I think we end here. I respect your obvious intelligence. We have different judgments and have each stated them. We are not going convince one another of the other's judgements.

Vinny
Sounds fine to me.
Plus, you have the FAR superior writing abilities and the greater ability to express yourself, putting me at a disadvantage!

Vinny
So my plan for world domination is working! >:D
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