Trump as tragicomedy

[vnatale]

The Vietnam War was a misadventure. We didn’t get coronavirus by attacking another country.
Hostage crisis - fair enough. I guess.

It was a misadventure supported by many of the same conservative mindset who today demand that we support Trump during this crisis (that was above compared to a war).

Vinny

[Mountaineer]

The Vietnam War was a misadventure. We didn’t get coronavirus by attacking another country.
Hostage crisis - fair enough. I guess.

It was a misadventure supported by many of the same conservative mindset who today demand that we support Trump during this crisis (that was above compared to a war).

Vinny

Shocking, just shocking.

[vnatale]

The Vietnam War was a misadventure. We didn’t get coronavirus by attacking another country.
Hostage crisis - fair enough. I guess.

It was a misadventure supported by many of the same conservative mindset who today demand that we support Trump during this crisis (that was above compared to a war).

Vinny

Shocking, just shocking.

Not me. I would have gone to Canada if I had been drafted.

You don't have a "conservative" mindset. You have revealed yourself to have a "100% independent" mindset from what I've gathered from various things you've written like, e.g., you voted for Obama, intrigued by Sanders sometime prior to the 2016 election, and so on.

Therefore, while you may espouse certain views that are currently considered conservative you are your own person with your own unique views on things. Including investing!

Vinny

[dualstow]

The Vietnam War was a misadventure. We didn’t get coronavirus by attacking another country.
Hostage crisis - fair enough. I guess.

It was a misadventure supported by many of the same conservative mindset who today demand that we support Trump during this crisis (that was above compared to a war).

Completely beside the point.

[vnatale]

The Vietnam War was a misadventure. We didn’t get coronavirus by attacking another country.
Hostage crisis - fair enough. I guess.

It was a misadventure supported by many of the same conservative mindset who today demand that we support Trump during this crisis (that was above compared to a war).

Completely beside the point.

What do you see as the point?

Vinny

[vnatale]

Capture.JPG (54.78 KiB) Viewed 4980 times

[dualstow]

Figure it out, Vinny. Or don’t. I’m not supporting conservatives over liberals here.
I’m saying it’s ridiculous to expect anyone to be united over something like initiating a Vietnam invasion. There is no comparison between that and defending against a global pandemic.

[vnatale]

Figure it out, Vinny. Or don’t. I’m not supporting conservatives over liberals here.
I’m saying it’s ridiculous to expect anyone to be united over something like initiating a Vietnam invasion. There is no comparison between that and defending against a global pandemic.

I get what you are saying. Vietnam war-bound to be disagreement as to whether it should even be an issue. Global pandemic - zero disagreement on conquering it. WW II - we were attacked so therefore there should be no disagreement on fighting the enemy.

I think that we must agree on the preceding paragraph?

However that does not make anyone involved in either WW II or the global pandemic above criticism for how they carried out the campaign to win the war. From the president on down.

VInny

[stuper1]

My only point is that I think the media, and everyone else, should tone down the political stuff until after we get out of lockdown. Sure, then start the criticism. Everybody is on hair trigger right now. I can picture peple fighting over TP at a store, somebody punching someone, and the other guy pulling out his gun and shooting him.

But whatever, it's not going to happen. The media is so fixated on bringing down Trump that there is no way they will tone things down, even if it might actually help someone survive this crisis (i.e, by not being shot over TP).

For some crazy reason I turned NPR on this morning to listen to while washing dishes. I figured their somnolent voices and careful reasoning might give me some solid information to start my day. I had to turn it off when the lady host and lady commentator starting analyzing Trump's latest press conference and making it clear that he's obviously an idiot because he says that he wants to restart the economy relatively soon while Fauci said at the same event we have to be careful. They made it sound like a huge contradiction. It doesn't sound like a contradiction to me. Trump hasn't lifted the lockdown yet. Anyway, they obviously have no idea how hard this is going to be on Joe Sixpack in another week or two if it not already. That $3,400 check from the IRS, if he has a wife and two kids, will help a little, but pretty soon that will run out and then things could get really bad quickly in terms of hunger and desperation.

[dualstow]

Vinny, I agree with both paragraphs, actually. I’m just a little weary of the latter and wish that criticism would come later, when the war has bee won. Unless of course, someone thinks they’re going to change the president’s mind. That doesn’t seem to work on him.

[vnatale]

My only point is that I think the media, and everyone else, should tone down the political stuff until after we get out of lockdown. Sure, then start the criticism. Everybody is on hair trigger right now. I can picture peple fighting over TP at a store, somebody punching someone, and the other guy pulling out his gun and shooting him.

But whatever, it's not going to happen. The media is so fixated on bringing down Trump that there is no way they will tone things down, even if it might actually help someone survive this crisis (i.e, by not being shot over TP).

For some crazy reason I turned NPR on this morning to listen to while washing dishes. I figured their somnolent voices and careful reasoning might give me some solid information to start my day. I had to turn it off when the lady host and lady commentator starting analyzing Trump's latest press conference and making it clear that he's obviously an idiot because he says that he wants to restart the economy relatively soon while Fauci said at the same event we have to be careful. They made it sound like a huge contradiction. It doesn't sound like a contradiction to me. Trump hasn't lifted the lockdown yet. Anyway, they obviously have no idea how hard this is going to be on Joe Sixpack in another week or two if it not already. That $3,400 check from the IRS, if he has a wife and two kids, will help a little, but pretty soon that will run out and then things could get really bad quickly in terms of hunger and desperation.

I never listen to NPR. They have a certain style that does not appeal to me. Plus, if I'm listening I want C-Span - straight from the source.

However, in regards to "Joe Sixpack" here is some important information.

I had to learn a tremendous amount about this Stimulus Act so as to assist two organizations in making the best decision so as to get their maximum share. Here briefly are the important parts.

1) You already about the money everyone is going to get (aside from you get less if you are well off, which I'm fine with)

2) If you are unemployed on top of whatever you'd normally be getting from your state unemployment you will now be getting an additional $600 on top of that! That means anyone on unemployment is going to earn WAY MORE money then have been currently working. That goes on through August. Now how many of Pence's great "American People" are going to want to have to go back to work and actually work when they can earn 50% to 100% more (maybe even 150% more) and stay at home, not working? Therefore anyone unemployed through August is almost always going to better off financially being unemployed than being employed.

3) You own a business. You borrow money to finance your entire payroll for two months and money to finance certain other expenses for those same two months, mainly rent, utilities, interest expense e.g., basically your occupancy expenses. Then at the end of those two months if you've maintained your workforce on payroll and spent all the money as you said you needed then the loan is 100% forgiven, thus turning into a grant.

But notice the competing interests in 2) and 3). Just before we submitted the application yesterday morning the business owner paused realizing the conflict between the two.

So, if I bring back my employees for #3 then they lose their sweet deal with unemployment in #3?

Yes. That is it! Our government has forced the business owner into deciding who to more favor. The employees or the business.

#2 gives the employee for the next five months the highest earnings per month that many of them will have ever had in their lives. And, they get to just stay home and do no work for this.

#3 gives their employees "only" their regular pay for two months. They may or may not have to work for it. If there is no work for them then the employer will pay them because the government will forgive that portion of the loan because they were paid. But it's a "worse" deal for the employees than #2 since they may have to work and they make a lot less money. However, the owner makes out better because if things are done correctly to meet the requirements of loan forgiveness then the business owner gets two months of the occupancy costs paid for.

I told the owner we just needed to submit the loan application so that it'd at least be approved by the bank and offered to the business and thus being a future option. Things are changing so fast, sometimes on a daily, or even an hourly basis, that we just had to look at submitting the application as a first step. And, then decide on the next steps based upon whatever conditions then exist.

Vinny

[Kriegsspiel]

NPR is TDS central.

I'm so sick of such stupidity that I turn off any source of it as soon as I identify it.

Seriously. I used to listen to a lot of NPR about a decade ago, when they would have a lot of interesting content. But now even what should be plain interesting they infuse with TDS. Like the interview with the World War Z author dualstow shared. Gross tried her hardest to inject Trump into everything instead of talking about zombies and prepping and such.

[barrett]

For some crazy reason I turned NPR on this morning to listen to while washing dishes. I figured their somnolent voices and careful reasoning might give me some solid information to start my day. I had to turn it off when the lady host and lady commentator starting analyzing Trump's latest press conference and making it clear that he's obviously an idiot because he says that he wants to restart the economy relatively soon while Fauci said at the same event we have to be careful. They made it sound like a huge contradiction. It doesn't sound like a contradiction to me. Trump hasn't lifted the lockdown yet.

I don't like Trump but I see this kind of "journalism" the same way. You see the same kind of knee-jerk, yes-but thinking when Trump says that he is not going to be wearing a face mask himself. There are all kinds of reasons for him not to and I don't think it takes a genius to figure some of them out.

I don't see many (any?) on television taking the middle road. To be clear, I think Trump has done a lot of things wrong in dealing with this virus, but if I know that a TV channel is always going to either kiss his ass or denigrate him 24/7, then why watch? People should be embarrassed for acting in such a predictable - and ultimately destructive - manner.

[vnatale]

For some crazy reason I turned NPR on this morning to listen to while washing dishes. I figured their somnolent voices and careful reasoning might give me some solid information to start my day. I had to turn it off when the lady host and lady commentator starting analyzing Trump's latest press conference and making it clear that he's obviously an idiot because he says that he wants to restart the economy relatively soon while Fauci said at the same event we have to be careful. They made it sound like a huge contradiction. It doesn't sound like a contradiction to me. Trump hasn't lifted the lockdown yet.

I don't like Trump but I see this kind of "journalism" the same way. You see the same kind of knee-jerk, yes-but thinking when Trump says that he is not going to be wearing a face mask himself. There are all kinds of reasons for him not to and I don't think it takes a genius to figure some of them out.

I don't see many (any?) on television taking the middle road. To be clear, I think Trump has done a lot of things wrong in dealing with this virus, but if I know that a TV channel is always going to either kiss his ass or denigrate him 24/7, then why watch? People should be embarrassed for acting in such a predictable - and ultimately destructive - manner.

Isn't it called "playing to your audience"?

Put on C-Span. You'll see things from the source plus all their other shows are the best attempt possible play it straight the middle with having guests from each side. Of course, does not stop the left from calling in and accusing C-Span of being tilted right. Or, the right calling in and accusing C-Span of tilting left. As a moderate I admire them and believe them to be the absolute best source of information.

Vinny

[dualstow]

NPR is TDS central.

I'm so sick of such stupidity that I turn off any source of it as soon as I identify it.

Seriously. I used to listen to a lot of NPR about a decade ago, when they would have a lot of interesting content. But now even what should be plain interesting they infuse with TDS. Like the interview with the World War Z author dualstow shared. Gross tried her hardest to inject Trump into everything instead of talking about zombies and prepping and such.

It’s funny, I didn’t even notice because I’m so used to it, and I don’t even mean that jokingly. It’s just par for the course, and of course if they’re going to talk about preparedness on a larger than personal level and what equipment is available then they’re going to have to discuss government.

What annoys me about NPR that I have not gotten used to is that stories full of science and culture are now about race and gender. There’s even a guy who keeps slipping “Latinx” into all of his pieces — I’ve mentioned it before. So, I’m listening less and less often, and watching PBS’ Newshour less often for the exact same reason. The variety of reporters is now down to Yamiche Alcindor — took me a year to learn her name wasn’t Y’Michelle something — and the one with the French name, Dejardin (sp?). It’s not the show I enjoyed every weeknight for over 15 years.

[Cortopassi]

I don't see many (any?) on television taking the middle road. To be clear, I think Trump has done a lot of things wrong in dealing with this virus, but if I know that a TV channel is always going to either kiss his ass or denigrate him 24/7, then why watch? People should be embarrassed for acting in such a predictable - and ultimately destructive - manner.

Yeah, it's gotten old real quick. I do listen to NPR (believe me, never thought I would) because of the variety. But they have injected too much Trump bashing lately.

On the other side, my Dad is 100% completely brainwashed by Fox News.

My kids and my wife are definitely on the Trump is bad side.

I like to play devil's advocate. I have one friend who is always pushing the this is overblown side, and I push back at him from the no it isn't view (at least from the view of extended family in Tuscany). My family is on the worried side, and I push back with the we really need to get back to work side and the numbers still haven't come close to the estimated peaks.

So then I just go out and ride my bike and forget about it for a while!

[vnatale]

I don't see many (any?) on television taking the middle road. To be clear, I think Trump has done a lot of things wrong in dealing with this virus, but if I know that a TV channel is always going to either kiss his ass or denigrate him 24/7, then why watch? People should be embarrassed for acting in such a predictable - and ultimately destructive - manner.

Yeah, it's gotten old real quick. I do listen to NPR (believe me, never thought I would) because of the variety. But they have injected too much Trump bashing lately.

On the other side, my Dad is 100% completely brainwashed by Fox News.

My kids and my wife are definitely on the Trump is bad side.

I like to play devil's advocate. I have one friend who is always pushing the this is overblown side, and I push back at him from the no it isn't view (at least from the view of extended family in Tuscany). My family is on the worried side, and I push back with the we really need to get back to work side and the numbers still haven't come close to the estimated peaks.

So then I just go out and ride my bike and forget about it for a while!

It's going to be in the mid-50s to low 60s here today staring around noon. I'm looking forward to being outside from noon to 6 PM, both working in my garden area and other parts of my property but, most of all, just sitting in my chair in the sun, while reading and listening to music. How much back to normal will that be??!!

Vinny

[vnatale]

Press conferences show desperately biased media are no match for President Trump

https://gayletrotter.com/press-conferen ... ent-trump/



Finally got to read the above as presented to us a few days ago by Libertarian666.

An article by someone who'd hardly be considered an unbiased source. She may make some good points but she completely ignores anything that does not support her article / thesis. Hardly close to a balanced article and just about as one sided as an article can be. Definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle black!

Vinny

[vnatale]

When you are a Republican president and you lose the Wall Street Journal editorial page.....

Vinny

What the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board gets exactly right about Trump's problematic coronavirus briefings

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/10/politics ... term=image


Trump’s Wasted Briefings

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-was ... 1586389028

A friend of ours who voted for President Trump sent us a note recently saying that she had stopped watching the daily White House briefings of the coronavirus task force. Why? Because they have become less about defeating the virus and more about the many feuds of Donald J. Trump.

The briefings began as a good idea to educate the public about the dangers of the virus, how Americans should change their behavior, and what the government is doing to combat it. They showed seriousness of purpose, action to mobilize public and private resources, and a sense of optimism. Mr. Trump benefitted in the polls not because he was the center of attention but because he showed he had put together a team of experts working to overcome a national health crisis.

Bernie Sanders Bows Out


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But sometime in the last three weeks Mr. Trump seems to have concluded that the briefings could be a showcase for him. Perhaps they substitute in his mind for the campaign rallies he can no longer hold because of the risks. Perhaps he resented the media adulation that New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has been receiving for his daily show. Whatever the reason, the briefings are now all about the President.


They last for 90 minutes or more, and Mr. Trump dominates the stage. His first-rate health experts have become supporting actors, and sometimes barely that, ushered on stage to answer a technical question or two. Vice President Mike Pence, who leads the task force, doesn’t get on stage until the last 15 minutes or so. That becomes the most informative part of the session, since Mr. Pence understandably knows details the President doesn’t.

Mr. Trump opens each briefing by running through a blizzard of facts and numbers showing what the government is doing—this many tests, that many masks, so many ventilators going from here to there, and what a great job he’s doing. Then Mr. Trump opens the door for questions, and the session deteriorates into a dispiriting brawl between the President and his antagonists in the White House press corps.

One of the ironies of this Presidency is that Mr. Trump claims to despise the press yet so eagerly plays its game. Every reporter knows the way to get a TV moment, and get a pat on the back from newsroom pals, is to bait Mr. Trump with a question about his previous statements or about criticism that someone has leveled against him. Mr. Trump always takes the bait.

On Tuesday Mr. Trump was asked, in a typically tendentious question, why he had compared the coronavirus to the flu. Instead of saying he had been hoping for the best but was wrong when he'd said that, he got into a fight over the severity of the flu. This sort of exchange usually devolves into a useless squabble that helps Mr. Trump’s critics and contributes little to public understanding.

The President’s outbursts against his political critics are also notably off key at this moment. This isn’t impeachment, and Covid-19 isn’t shifty Schiff. It’s a once-a-century threat to American life and livelihood.

The public doesn’t care who among the governors likes Mr. Trump, or whether the Obama Administration filled the national pandemic stockpile. There will be time for recriminations. What the public wants to know now is what Mr. Trump and his government is doing to prevent the deaths of their loved ones or help the family breadwinner stay employed.

If Mr. Trump thinks these daily sessions will help him defeat Joe Biden, he’s wrong. This election is now about one issue: how well the public thinks the President has done in defeating the virus and restarting the economy. If Americans conclude he succeeded in a crisis, they will forgive him for reacting more slowly than he and many others might have in January. But on that score, voters will be persuaded by what they see in their lives and communities come the autumn. They will judge Mr. Trump by the results, not by how well he says he did.

If Mr. Trump wants to make his briefings more helpful to the country, here’s our advice. Make them no more than 45 minutes, except on rare occasions. Let Mr. Pence lead them each day, focusing on one issue or problem. Mr. Pence can take the questions, and Mr. Trump can show up twice a week to reinforce the message. Maybe then our friend who was a Trump voter might start watching again.

[vnatale]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/ ... c75878751f

Report: Trump Ignored Pleas To Put Social Distancing Practices In Place, Warnings Of A Pandemic
Matt Perez
Matt PerezForbes Staff
Innovation
I write about video games and esports.
White House Coronavirus Task Force Holds Daily Briefing At The White House
WASHINGTON, DC - APRIL 10: U.S. President Donald Trump listens during the daily briefing of the ... [+] GETTY IMAGES
Topline: A new report from the New York Times details early warnings issued to President Trump and his administration throughout early January and February that were ignored because of potential impacts to the economy and trade relations with China, including guidance for social distancing practices weeks before they were issued by the president.

Dr. Robert Kadlec, the Department of Health and Human Services' lead on disaster response, met with the White House's coronavirus task force on February 21, and the group concluded that social distancing measures including school closures would need to take place soon.
The group intended to present Trump with their plan after he returned from a trip from India—a February 14 memo prepared with the National Security Council went over guidelines like cancelling sporting events and issuing stay-at-home directives nationwide—but on February 25, Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, put out a public warning that echoed the task force's plan but infuriated Trump as it impacted the stock market.
Instead of conducting a meeting with the task force about the need for social distancing, Trump instead had a briefing on February 26 where he replaced Dr. Alex Azar, the secretary of Health and Human Services, as the head of the coronavirus task force with Vice President Mike Pence, with a focus on controlling the message so as not to impact the economy.
The report also details the struggles officials went through in convincing Trump and his administration to put in place social distancing measures, including Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, who argued with national security adviser Robert O'Brien during an Oval Office meeting, claiming the economy could be destroyed.
Trump reportedly pushed back against social distancing because his "business friends" told him it would hurt the economy. Senior adviser Jared Kushner brought in former Food and Drug Administration commissioner Scott Gottlieb to convince Trump, and Pence also tried to help, but it was Dr. Deborah Birx, now a familiar face on the coronavirus task force, who finally got through to Trump.
Echoing a Washington Post report in March, officials in early January were reportedly issuing early warnings of the pandemic, with the State Department's epidemiologist writing the virus could turn into a pandemic and biodefense experts in the National Security Council telling officials to think about preparations for city-sized quarantines.
Azar in particular was reportedly told by Trump in January to "stop panicking" after he called him about a potential pandemic, and a plan by Azar to set up surveillance in five cities that would have cost $100 million fell through in February as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevent struggled to issue working tests.
Tangent: The report also focuses on the touchy relationship between the White House and the Chinese government. Matthew Pottinger, the deputy national security adviser, was warned early on in January by a Hong Kong epidemiologist that China was not being truthful about the spread of the virus. Described as a China hawk, Pottinger and others pushed the administration to blame China while economic advisers to Trump pushed back as they worked through a trade deal with the government. The debates eventually led to a restriction of foreign nationals traveling from China on January 31, a move consistently touted by Trump as a sign he acted early. However, no other broad actions were taken in February to prepare and address the pandemic, with senators in a briefing on February 5 telling Trump's administration to take the threat seriously and offering money to help state and local departments. While Trump tweeted praise to China early on, a war of words began to brew between the two nations, with Trump using the phrase "Wuhan Virus" throughout March.

Crucial Quote: In an email exchange with other experts after Trump issued travel restrictions between European countries on March 11, Dr. James Lawler, a professor at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, said "We have thrown 15 years of institutional learning out the window and are making decisions based on intuition."

Chief Critic: President Trump. After the publication of the New York Times story, Trump lashed out on Twitter Saturday, calling the accounts made up. "When the Failing [New York Times] or Amazon [Washington Post] writes a story saying 'unnamed sources said,' or any such phrase where a person’s name is not used, don’t believe them. Most of these unnamed sources don’t exist. They are made up to defame and disparage."


Key Background: After much delay, Trump declared a national emergency on March 13, two days after the World Health Organization declared a pandemic. Trump has frequently said the pandemic and its impact couldn't have been predicted and the administration acted quickly. However, before calling a national emergency, Trump frequently downplayed the coronavirus. "When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done," Trump said on February 27. Some states still haven't issued stay-at-home orders, and Trump is now saying widespread testing isn't needed to reopen the country.

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) and Committee on Homeland Security Chairman Bennie G. Thompson (D-Miss.) separately announced they'd introduce legislation to create a nonpartisan commission to investigate the federal government's response to the pandemic. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on April 2, announced a bipartisan select committee to oversee federal actions during “the here and now” of the pandemic.

The U.S. now leads all other countries in confirmed cases of the coronavirus with 522,286 and deaths with 20,283.

[Mountaineer]

An editorial, source unknown:

This is NOT a political post by any means, it is simply something that everyone should stop, read and think about.
Can you imagine the weight this man is feeling right now? I have two children that depend on me daily, yet on some days my anxiety is through the roof and I feel like the weight of the world is all on me. When he signed up for this role (without pay) he did it for us, Americans. He didn’t do it for the fame or glory, he already had all that. He was willing to take on whatever, but the magnitude of what we’re currently experiencing has got to be paralyzing.

And to some, NOTHING he does is ever right or if for some reason it is good, but never enough.
Do you ever wonder how he must be dealing with it all? When his head finally hits the pillow at night, if it does, after press conferences and meetings, constantly trying to defend himself and protect our country.
Does he break down and cry from all the pressure?
Is he scared and confused?
Is he even able to sleep?
Can he shut his mind off at all?
Or does he lay there and talk to God all night praying for strength and answers?

Whether he’s making you proud or not, whether you like him or not, just look at this photo and ask God to soften your heart just a little bit and lift this man up in prayer. He needs them right now more than ever. He is carrying the weight of OUR country on his shoulders and I don’t think anybody could or would be able to do a better job than he is. Pray for President Trump and for the US and the entire world.

image002.gif (162.08 KiB) Viewed 5026 times

[Kriegsspiel]

Russia is the Marshawn Lynch of countries. Or maybe the Bob Huggins.

A reporter started off a question to the God Emperor:

"On China... Why are there no consequences for China? For the misinfor.."
Trump, interrupting, "How do you know there's no consequences?"
"Well, what are the consequences then Mr. President beca..."
"I wouldn't tell YOU! China will find out. Why would I tell you?
"People are concerned that they stonewalled and.."
Trump goes on as she tries to talk over him, "No, you started off by saying 'why are there no consequences,' how do you know there are no consequences? You're gonna find out, I wouldn't tell you. You'd probably be the last person on Earth I'd tell."

I haven't laughed that hard in days. Absolutely hilarious when it catches you off guard like that. One thing that isn't fully expressed anywhere is just how absolutely cuntish many of these White House reporters are. You can distantly hear her mumble somthing at him when the next person is asking a question. I would not have imagined it was like this until I started watching these Coronavirus Task Force things.

[Cortopassi]

I am so relieved looking at our council to re-open America.

[dualstow]

[vnatale]

I believe you are responding to the post directly above. But the object I am looking at is so incredibly tiny (even on a 23" monitor) that I have no idea what it is trying to convey.

Vinny