NFL National Anthem Controversy

[farjean2]

Quick hijack it. Trump, Hilary, Obama, gender studies, climate change, black lives matter

I prefer the NFL anthem controversy because it's much more interesting. And whatever you have to say about Trump, you have to admit he has a knack for making things interesting.

Personally, I couldn't care less whether or not the players stand, kneel, or whatever during the national anthem as this doesn't offend me at all. What amazes me is how the NFL owners and the commissioner choose to coddle these multi-million dollar paid employees who are obviously doing damage to the league's image in the public eye. If any of us regular folks had ever done anything like that to the companies we worked for I think we all know we would have been terminated and disavowed as quickly as possible. And the stupidity of biting the hand that feeds you in the name of your social justice warrior cause and poking your finger in everyone else's eye when you know it isn't going to hurt you at all, strikes me as utterly narcissistic.

And that's how I really feel about it. Not that anyone cares, but I couldn't resist displaying my own narcissism by hijacking an otherwise pointless thread.

is it strange that my issue with disrespecting the flag/anthem is not with the act itself but with the use of it? the act itself certainly falls in the freedom of speech category (doing so as an employee being another matter and one where freedom is not so guaranteed) my issue with it is that the flag/anthem are powerful symbols and in my mind disrespecting them should somehow be reserved for only the most dire and earth shattering of causes.. to see this being done for each and every weak-sauce cause dejure... just sort of pisses me off... it steals the power from the symbolism of doing so, and if we should ever need to make a strong statement against some truly horrible national travesty, well if you disrespect the flag/anthem now you are just lumped in with the thousands of overreacting over-dramatizing morons activists who have come before you...

[Kriegsspiel]

Personally, I couldn't care less whether or not the players stand, kneel, or whatever during the national anthem as this doesn't offend me at all.

For all the bullshit I've heard, like "WHAA, WHAA, you're disrespecting the troops!" I've never met 'a troops' who cared at all. I think it's weird we play the National Anthem at all before playing a game.

What amazes me is how the NFL owners and the commissioner choose to coddle these multi-million dollar paid employees who are obviously doing damage to the league's image in the public eye. If any of us regular folks had ever done anything like that to the companies we worked for I think we all know we would have been terminated and disavowed as quickly as possible. And the stupidity of biting the hand that feeds you in the name of your social justice warrior cause and poking your finger in everyone else's eye when you know it isn't going to hurt you at all, strikes me as utterly narcissistic.

Shit man, none of us are as valuable to our employers as NFL players are.

And that's how I really feel about it. Not that anyone cares, but I couldn't resist displaying my own narcissism by hijacking an otherwise pointless thread.

Mmmmmmm... *wafting*

*wafting*


narcissism.

[Xan]

IIRC it started during (after? during?) World War 2. I'd guess it was baseball that started it.

It's the kind of thing that you just can't stop once you start. How can you, without looking like a jerk? It's a lot like how they added "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch after 9/11. I guess we're stuck with that forever.

[farjean2]

The NFL players are a lot more valuable to the average fan than the old billionaire owners. The NFL is entertainment, and fans aren't tuning in to watch old, white, political, draft-dodging snowflakes whining about their hurt feelings.

Don't really understand your point.

Fans aren't tuning in to watch young, black snowflakes and SJWs whine either. As a matter of fact fans seeming to be tuning them out and not watching.

If a white CEO of a large company making 100 times what the average NFL football player makes did something like this which damaged the brand of his company in the public eye, how long do you think it would be before the shareholders and/or the board of directors showed him the door (although with a compensation package we could only dream of, of course)?

But if you are a football player, and especially a black one, you apparently get to be put on a more lofty pedestal. Personally, I'm one that's pretty close to being done with football even though I've been a fan all my life and not just for this reason. It's just the straw that broke the camel's back. Another reason is the over the top violence. I was recently in Australia where I watched their version of the Super Bowl in the Rugby championship game. It's a contact sport but what was noticeably missing were the vicious hits with the obvious intention of inflicting an injury and putting a player out of the game, if not ending his season or his whole career if you can get away with it. In the NFL, if you can take a "good, clean hit" and legally knock another player's running lights out and give him a concussion, then that is simply standard procedure and what is expected of you. Nobody comes out and actually says it but anyone who watches will eventually realize that this is part of the strategy of American football. Just watch the hit on Aaron Rogers last Sunday which broke his collarbone and probably ended his season if you don't believe it. It was completely pointless because he had already gotten rid of the ball but perfectly "legal" according to the rules as all the announcers reminded us. Gets pretty sickening. I don't expect Tom Brady to survive the season either even though he's been amazingly resilient.

[farjean2]

Ok, I'll try to explain more calmly. First, these football players aren't snowflakes. None of us would last a minute in a college practice, let alone an NFL practice. These guys are modern day gladiators, sacrificing their present and future health for fame and cash, all to entertain us couch potato snowflakes. In other words, we are the snowflakes, not these guys.

Well, speak for yourself. I loved playing football when I was a kid - just sandlot stuff but I still got my running lights knocked out on many occasions and we didn't wear pads and helmets. I would lay on the ground moaning and groaning in pain for a while and then get up and go at it again. I'm hard pressed to think of anything in life that I have enjoyed more (well, there's one other activity with physical contact that obviously wins the prize but football at least comes in second). I recently discovered from Xrays that I once broke my back without knowing about it and it may very well have been while playing football though that's hard to say.

I would have given anything to play football for a living so it really bothers me to see these guys do things that are so obviously detrimental to the sport. What do they think their protests are actually going to accomplish any way? I guess it's to "raise awareness". I remember joining a walk around the building at work one day to "raise awareness" for breast cancer and I figure it was probably just as effective. Some construction workers saw us and mocked us for what we were doing but perhaps some day it will have been worth it if we raised their awareness of breast cancer at least a little (sarcasm intended).

[geaux saints]

As long as the Saints keep winning all is right in the world.

[farjean2]

As long as the Saints keep winning all is right in the world.

Green Bay aint so good without their QB. WhoDat.

Yeah, I saw the replay of Rogers being slammed into the ground well after he released the ball and wondered why they didn't throw a flag, not that this would have done any good at that point. I guess that after getting rid of the ball, the defender still has a grace period of a few seconds that he can still knock the quarterbacks running lights out. Watching the game lose star players like this every week is one of the things making it less interesting to watch for me.

Speaking of star quarterbacks and the Saints, I hear Brady is planning on playing until he's 45 but if he gets in another championship game with a team capable of getting to him the way the the Saints did to Brett Favre at the end of his career, he might start to rethink it. I've heard that Favre is already experiencing bouts of memory loss.

[ochotona]

There'd be a holy Scheiss storm if people dropped the "under God" from their recitation of the Pledge, but that was only added the year my sister was born... 1954. Hardly Moses coming down from Mt. Sinai, although all of these politicians would like to see themselves as Moses... then they get caught touching their interns. Disgusting.

[Xan]

"Under God" is the only redeeming thing about the Pledge, so in that sense, yes, I'd strongly oppose its removal. But I would not be against abolishing the Pledge entirely.

Desert, you said " This isn't the Soviet Union; we don't need to constantly demonstrate our allegiance to the state." I agree. I don't think it's terribly strong to connect your sentiment to the national anthem: that poem/song is about prevailing against a foreign enemy in war, and phrases like "our flag was still there" and "land of the free and home of the brave" aren't necessarily referring to the government but to the people.

The Pledge, though, ugh. A pledge of allegiance is an extremely serious thing when done even once, and it's totally trivialized by making schoolchildren do it, and do it every day. It IS explicitly a pledge of allegiance to the government, and even makes patently false statements like "indivisible".

It was written by a Socialist trying to indoctrinate schoolchildren to be loyal to the all-powerful national government. Here's what it looked like:
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BasKB5lX0dQ/ ... llamy2.jpg

Horrifying.

So, yes, "Under God" was a later addition, but a critical one. It's the only part of the Pledge that acknowledges any power other than that of the omnipotent State.

[ochotona]

That photo is horrifying, in hindsight of 1930-1945

[farjean2]

It was written by a Socialist trying to indoctrinate schoolchildren to be loyal to the all-powerful national government. Here's what it looked like:
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BasKB5lX0dQ/ ... llamy2.jpg

Horrifying.

So, yes, "Under God" was a later addition, but a critical one. It's the only part of the Pledge that acknowledges any power other than that of the omnipotent State.

One of my kids went to an elementary school called "Bellamy", named after the socialist minister who wrote the pledge. They had it over the door in the entryway and they replaced the "under God" with "..". Being a public school I guess they didn't want to deal with lawsuits from the ACLU or similar organizations. Religious fanatic that I was back then I was highly offended and that was one of the reasons I transferred my kids into a Christian school. The last straw was attending a Christmas show where all the songs were secular without even one traditional Christmas song of a religious nature.

Having lost my religion, I now have to disagree with you about the words "under God". The pledge is now without any redeeming feature at all because those words are meaningless to me. And I think history has shown that doing things in the name of "God" can be just as destructive if not more so than doing them in the name of the state.

But it really is interesting that a so-called Christian minister would be the author of such an oath of allegiance when the supposed deity of his religion specifically said not to swear oaths. Just goes to show how humans make up their own religion to suit themselves. Obviously the deity would make an exception to the rule for the U.S. pledge of allegiance, the one indispensable nation on earth and the last best hope of man.

[moda0306]

I'm not entirely sure that this controversy is reducing public interest in football any more than a professional wrestler angering some professional wrestling fans reduces their interest.

Also, I find the economic proposition given to us by athletes to be a lot more legitimate than that of the owners. Overall though I find these sports to be an amazing waste of time and resources from youth to pro when I take so much as a couple steps back from it.

As for the standing, kneeling, flags, songs, pledges, etc., I agree with George Carlin. Let's leave symbols to the symbol-minded.

[Maddy]

If they had any sense at all, they'd be protesting the transnational corporate elites and their whores in Congress and the Pentagon who, by the way, just got caught with their pants down while engaged in a signature economic raid of the African continent. These elites have no allegiance to the United States and have nothing to do with American culture, with the Constitution, or with free enterprise--or with America at all up until a few decades ago. They clearly aren't acting in the interest of the American people.

So when these 250-pound children start grandstanding around the National Anthem, they simply show the world how really stupid they are.

[farjean2]

So when these 250-pound children start grandstanding around the National Anthem, they simply show the world how really stupid they are.

Exactly.

And isn't that big Afro that Colin Kaepernick (who started it all) wears really cool? What I want to know is how the heck you stuff all that hair inside a football helmet. They probably had to make him a special one to accommodate it. And did you ever see anyone with so many tattoos? Haven't seen anything like it since I was in the Navy and one of my shipmates got a tattoo in every port we visited. At least he can chalk it up to being drunk. I've heard that all of Kaepernick's tattoos are Bible verses because he's a devout Christian.

I'm hearing that Roger Goodell is trying to figure out a way to solve the problem by letting the players make their protests in another forum. Maybe it will be something like when they have all the players wear pink shoes to raise awareness for breast cancer, or maybe we'll be treated to commercials that give the players time to express their views which is something else they are talking about. I'm sure that will go over big. They'll just have to hope the viewers return to the broadcast after changing the channel.

[Maddy]

And if you dug into it a bit, I bet you'd find that the same multinational corporations whose vast array of subsidiaries own everything else in the western hemisphere own the NFL players as well. But you aren't hearing anybody protesting about being bought and sold by the elites when those multi-million-dollar contracts are being signed.

So the odd takeaway is this: It's okay to be a slave so long as you're a rich and famous one.

[farjean2]

And if you dug into it a bit, I bet you'd find that the same multinational corporations whose vast array of subsidiaries own everything else in the western hemisphere own the NFL players as well. But you aren't hearing anybody protesting about being bought and sold by the elites when those multi-million-dollar contracts are being signed.

So the odd takeaway is this: It's okay to be a slave so long as you're a rich and famous one.

Just returned from a vacation in Australia and one observation I have to make about the country is that I have never been in a country where the ubiquitous presence of McDonald's was so overwhelming. In almost every small town we passed through on a driving tour from Sydney to see the Great Barrier reef, the only local cuisine they had to offer was McDonald's. Occasionally we found "Hungry Jack's" which is actually Burger King and, if it was a bigger town, there might be a KFC. My brother in law told me that the reason for this was because they came into the country years ago and put the local restaurants out of business by offering lowering prices and then raised them when they had accomplished their goal. I didn't want to get into a big discussion with him about it but I did suggest that maybe raising the country-wide minimum wage to $15 an hour might have had something to do with it.

I really don't like seeing this but all I can say is that at least the empires of McDonald's, Burger King, and KFC don't have weapons of war to take each other out.

[farjean2]

Well, there you go.....

https://pagesix.com/2017/10/24/colin-ka ... book-deal/

Mr. Kaepernick is going to be given a forum to finally tell us all how he really feels.

Only in America, the land of opportunity.

[geaux saints]

As long as the Saints keep winning all is right in the world.

Green Bay aint so good without their QB. WhoDat.

You're telling me! Still way closer of a game than it should've been. WhoDat.

On topic:

I guess I've never really had a problem with the anthem protests, in large part because I find the playing of the national anthem to be creepy. As long as they don't use violence to get their message across, who cares? What would Harry Browne say about the protests?

[farjean2]

P.S. - for the record, when I first saw Colin Kaepernick break onto the scene I thought he was a unique talent. During the playoffs that year I think he set a record in one game for the most yards ever gained rushing by a quarterback and not just in the playoffs but in any game ever. When the 49'ers made the Super Bowl I was rooting for him and was disappointed when the final play of the game, in which he could have won it, didn't turn out so well.

Now that he's decided to channel his uniqueness in another direction I wish him well. Apparently he's decided it has nothing to do with football any more.

Well, there you go.....

https://pagesix.com/2017/10/24/colin-ka ... book-deal/

Mr. Kaepernick is going to be given a forum to finally tell us all how he really feels.

Only in America, the land of opportunity.

[Kriegsspiel]

His afro is dope as fuck; truly a next level anti-concussion maneuver.

[farjean2]

I don't really get out much, but even *I* know that tattoos are a thing these days.

Yeah, but tattoos of Bible verses covering almost every inch of your upper body? I doubt that's a thing.

You probably don't see this one any where.....

"'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD." (Leviticus 19:28 New International Version)

So before flipping the finger to NFL fans, he even did it to Yahweh.

[Xan]

Most of those Levitical laws are considered to be ceremonial, that is, intended to set the Jewish people apart, preserving their culture and bloodlines until ultimately the Messiah arrived through them.

Christ fulfilled all the law, both moral and ceremonial, but the moral law still binds our sinful flesh. The ceremonial law, its purpose achieved, is no longer binding.

[Xan]

Is this anything other than a complete win for Trump?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2358 ... hem-policy

[moda0306]

Is this anything other than a complete win for Trump?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2358 ... hem-policy

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel now, aren't we...

[Mountaineer]

Is this anything other than a complete win for Trump?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2358 ... hem-policy

Off the subject but both my ad blockers showed 288 ads blocked and 6 trackers on this ESPN webpage. That is a record by far of webpages I have visited.

Ad Block Plus and uBlock Origin on Chrome.