White Pride / Racism

[stuper1]

Ok, American exceptionalism. So, where did that exceptionalism come from? Why is America different say from Chile? The difference is our culture. As long as immigration is kept at a low enough level so that immigrants can assimilate into that culture, then the exceptionalism may endure. If the immigration happens at too fast a pace (which I believe to have been the case for a long time now), then we start to have problems, because the immigrants are not assimilating, and the culture and exceptionalism are suffering.

[Libertarian666]

There's definitely a bit of truth on the subject of biological differences between different kinds of people, but the subject always seems to reveal strong correlations between how much someone harps on it and how much of an asshole they are. The mere subject is a pretty good signpost that you're entering a swampy, toxic corner of the internet.

Nicely put. Also, the variance around the mean tends to be so large that it makes it impossible to draw any reliable conclusions regarding an individual's potential, purely based on race. Also, IQ tests are notoriously inadequate at discerning between cultural testing bias and true underlying intelligence.

If we just take the raw numbers as gospel, the Jews and Asians are the master races and will soon be ridding the world of the Aryan mouth breathers.

That's why the Aryan mouth breathers don't like them.

[Hal]

There's definitely a bit of truth on the subject of biological differences between different kinds of people, but the subject always seems to reveal strong correlations between how much someone harps on it and how much of an asshole they are. The mere subject is a pretty good signpost that you're entering a swampy, toxic corner of the internet.

Nicely put. Also, the variance around the mean tends to be so large that it makes it impossible to draw any reliable conclusions regarding an individual's potential, purely based on race. Also, IQ tests are notoriously inadequate at discerning between cultural testing bias and true underlying intelligence.

If we just take the raw numbers as gospel, the Jews and Asians are the master races and will soon be ridding the world of the Aryan mouth breathers.

That's why the Aryan mouth breathers don't like them.

Unless you are an "Honory Aryan".....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorary_Aryan

[doodle]

What makes us think we're so different from every other country that has been torn apart by differing groups of people?

American exceptionalism. And my family is the case in point. My parents from China, my wife's Dad from Cuba, my wife's Mom a Daughter of the American Revolution, my step-mom from Poland. We're family.

My kids went to a large public high school with high standards, 1/3 white, 1/3 black, 1/3 Hispanic, dribs and drabs of Asians. She's in a EE program now.

We live in the most racially diverse metro area in the USA, Houston, and when Hurricane Harvey hit us, look at how we treated each other. Were you not inspired? I didn't hear about much looting or misbehavior. The 2nd Amendment helped.

Doodle, please get your ideas from the light, not from the darkness.

+1

This has nothing to do with light and darkness...I'd rather keep morality out of this and simply look at the facts. The fact is that communism works within a family, as perhaps does diversity but in society at large I'm not so sure. There is nothing wrong with recognizing that perhaps homogenous societies are more harmonious than very diverse ones. Besides, isn't it ironic that in order to preserve diversity we must keep separation. By intermixing everyone we eventually lose diversity not gain it. In that sense Jared Taylor and his crowd are prodiversity and those advocating for intermixing are actually diminishing the range of human diversity.

[doodle]

Also it seems that racial diversity within a society works to the degree that those differing races share very similar cultural traits, beliefs, education levels, economic affluence...Throw in a different culture, race and belief system and American exceptionalism and the great melting pot theory go out the window.

[Pointedstick]

I recognize the path you're walking, Doodle. I walked it myself a few years ago. The left keeps its members from this knowledge because it's dangerous. Dangerous to the worldview, dangerous to compassion, dangerous to solidarity, dangerous to virtually everything the left holds dear.

They're not wrong about that. Unfortunately, their repression transforms it into forbidden fruit that people with curious minds long for. And even more unfortunately for them, there really is truth to a lot of this knowledge: In general, men care more about things and systems, women more about people. In general, people from colder parts of the world are more logical, individualistic, and have more beta tendencies, and people from warmer parts of the world are more emotional, communitarian, and have more alpha tendencies. In general, Jews are smart and neurotic. Etc.

In general. The key is to accept generalities without letting them turn into universalities that must be either accepted as gospel truth (the rightist approach), or fought against because their implications are too much to bear (the leftist approach). We have all met many, many people who defied the stereotypes associated with their gender and ethnicity.

The implications for social policy aren't as cut-and-dried as the right would have you think. It turns out that both rightist separation--not letting in too many people to assimilate--as well as leftist inclusion--treating them like members of the American family once they're here--both work. In fact, that was the model that successfully assimilated generations of immigrants and their children (such as all of my grandparents) into having strong American identities. But what we have today is the inverse: Leftist openness, with rightist xenophobia: The left lets in too many people, and then the right hates them. Boy, what a great situation.

The whole subject is a concrete exploration of the concept of boundaries. Are they absolute, or imaginary? Real but fuzzy? Somewhere frustratingly and nebulously in the middle? For further reading, I recommend https://meaningness.com/boundaries-objects-connections and other related pages (really all of it).

[doodle]

Pointed stick,

How do you think about the failure of Muslims to assimilate within many european nations? What would your policy be regarding this situation?

Why do you believe that without exception people of color live in poverty wherever they happen to be in the world? This is not a racist question, it is simply a statement of fact. Why is it that in those same countries where white Europeans have settled there are higher standards of living?

[doodle]

Is this knowledge dangerous? I suppose in the wrong hands, yes. However, naivete isn't a safe position either. Again, the American Indians failure to realize how dangerous the influx of white Europeans settlers were resulted in their extinction for all practical purposes.

[moda0306]

Is this knowledge dangerous? I suppose in the wrong hands, yes. However, naivete isn't a safe position either. Again, the American Indians failure to realize how dangerous the influx of white Europeans settlers were resulted in their extinction for all practical purposes.

I think the risk of settled, technologically advanced "civilizations" to nomadic, low-tech, unsettled people is far-and-away a different level of risk than of poor immigrants into a wealthy, settled society.

Whatever the risk is, it isn't the seemingly ubiquitous threat to any nomadic peoples by people with an eye on the land.

Think of the material and financial wealth of the United States, and how difficult it would be to pry a meaningful amount of that wealth out of the hands of the owners and into the immigrants hands (the analogy that would have to hold for anything close to a similar situation to occur). We aren't even close to that point. The closest thing is perhaps some welfare-esque checks that go in one pocket and right back out the other to pay for rent, groceries, transportation, etc... aka right back into the hands of the rest of us.

[Xan]

Just interjecting into this interesting conversation on the American Indian point: the Indians were not anything resembling a cohesive bloc. In fact, quite the opposite. There were countless Indian tribes with no knowledge of the "big picture". Each was at war with number of other tribes and allied with some number of other tribes.

The white settlers were just like another tribe: allied with some Indians, at war with others, etc. Often different "tribes" of whites were allied with or at war with each other too.

So while I suppose it's true that the Indians' best hope to preserve their way of life was to all gang up on all the white folk, that assumes a level of coordination and even identity that just didn't exist. (Also it might not have succeeded.)

[Pointedstick]

Pointed stick,

How do you think about the failure of Muslims to assimilate within many european nations? What would your policy be regarding this situation?

Why do you believe that without exception people of color live in poverty wherever they happen to be in the world? This is not a racist question, it is simply a statement of fact. Why is it that in those same countries where white Europeans have settled there are higher standards of living?

I know exactly what you're feeling right now. You've taken a bite of the forbidden fruit and it tastes great. Your mind is coursing with possibilities you didn't consider before--that you now realize were kept from you. You're consuming new knowledge and it all just feels so right.

But you've turned off your critical thinking skills. This has nothing to do with naivite, but rather with maintaining a healthy skepticism of claims that are too neat and tidy. The new information is so fascinating that you haven't noticed quite a few things being passed off as facts that are anything but. For example, your assertion that "without exception people of color live in poverty wherever they happen to be in the world". I know you, Doodle, and this isn't you talking. This is something you got from Jayman or HBDChick and didn't think critically about.

It's a statement that can't possibly be a fact because the term "people of color" is meaningless and can be defined as whomever you want. Are east and southeast Asians not "people of color?" How about people from India? South America? Iran? They all live in poverty? Really? Are you sure about that?

The European formula for overcoming poverty (capitalism, education, specialization, fidelity to rules and systems rather than kin and clan) appears to be very exportable and highly compatible with most of the world's pre-existing cultures. The British taught it to the Indians during their colonial era and now India is a rising world power with vast industrial and technical expertise. They are developing, jointly with Russia, a scramjet-powered hypersonic cruise missile that should scare the bejeezus out of us. Much of the rest of east and southeast Asia has learned the secret too over the course of the last century. South America has fully adopted it as well. The Arab middle east is trying, in fits and starts, between setbacks caused by being right in between all the world's major powers.

That pretty much leaves Africa. "Maybe Africans are just dumber," the voice whispers in your ear. The question is: are you going to let yourself be seduced by the dark side? Because it's calling.

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[doodle]

I agree this is new knowledge that I'm running with. However it's the discovery of truth that I find exciting and compelling and far from desire to use this knowlwdge to oppress and belittle others I rather believe that this knowledge can be employed to come up with better ideas regarding how to understand and improve human life on this earth. Truth(as harsh as it might be) shouldn't be hidden. I cannot stand lies regarding the outcomes and realities of disparate human evolution anymore than religious lies in order to soothe the mysteries of death. The fact is (as much as it is anathema within modern academia) is that subsaharan Africans have IQs that are quite a bit lower than northern Europeans. This is not something that is discussed strictly on Aryan nation forums but by honest researchers such as Gad Saad. I think it matters not so much that this disparity exists but rather what to do with this information. The fact is also that Asians and Jews seem to be more intelligent than. Whites. Each race evolved under different selective pressures and this doesn't make one superior to the other but perhaps explains why one group maybe struggles within a system such as industrialized capitalism. Or why one group is more prone to violence while another has measurably higher suicide rates. My interest is in the truth, nothing more. We have been force fed especially in the United States the idea that diversity is preferable. This has been raised to a position of sanctity that to question it in most circles would have one fired, banished, ostracized. This is wrong. And I believe we truly need to think long and hard about whether changing the face of America from an overwhelmingly white european christian majority to a country of equal parts black, Hispanic, muslim, Asian, and white will make for a stronger country or will it (especially were we to face future economic struggles) ultimately tear this country apart. These are serious questions with no easy answers. In some cases we might have to reconcile that striving to reach some unattainable ideal could actually result in greater suffering.

[Libertarian666]

I agree this is new knowledge that I'm running with. However it's the discovery of truth that I find exciting and compelling and far from desire to use this knowlwdge to oppress and belittle others I rather believe that this knowledge can be employed to come up with better ideas regarding how to understand and improve human life on this earth. Truth(as harsh as it might be) shouldn't be hidden. I cannot stand lies regarding the outcomes and realities of disparate human evolution anymore than religious lies in order to soothe the mysteries of death. The fact is (as much as it is anathema within modern academia) is that subsaharan Africans have IQs that are quite a bit lower than northern Europeans. This is not something that is discussed strictly on Aryan nation forums but by honest researchers such as Gad Saad. I think it matters not so much that this disparity exists but rather what to do with this information. The fact is also that Asians and Jews seem to be more intelligent than. Whites. Each race evolved under different selective pressures and this doesn't make one superior to the other but perhaps explains why one group maybe struggles within a system such as industrialized capitalism. Or why one group is more prone to violence while another has measurably higher suicide rates. My interest is in the truth, nothing more. We have been force fed especially in the United States the idea that diversity is preferable. This has been raised to a position of sanctity that to question it in most circles would have one fired, banished, ostracized. This is wrong. And I believe we truly need to think long and hard about whether changing the face of America from an overwhelmingly white european christian majority to a country of equal parts black, Hispanic, muslim, Asian, and white will make for a stronger country or will it (especially were we to face future economic struggles) ultimately tear this country apart. These are serious questions with no easy answers. In some cases we might have to reconcile that striving to reach some unattainable ideal could actually result in greater suffering.

You are relying on facts (different races have different average IQs) and logic (life outcomes are highly correlated with IQ).

But this leads to conclusions that people don't like.

So you should stop doing that.

[doodle]

I have this tendency to dive headfirst into discomfort...that is where learning and growth happen. The truth isn't the dark side......it's coming to the light.

[doodle]

Thought exercise...how many people when selecting a neighborhood to live in looked for an area where the people were as different from yourself as possible not only in terms of race but also culturally, language, religion etc? If not, then why not? For all those who might brand me with a less than favorable label I bet I'm one of the few people here who lives in a neighborhood where I'm a vast minority. And for the most part things have been just fine (besides one robbery, and periodically finding bullets in the street) and I get along with everyone....but truth be told there is still a great deal of cultural separation between me and my neighbors. Besides exchanging pleasantries, and helping them out with kids, fixing things, etc etc and even attending BBQs and family get togethers there is still an invisible line dividing us. There are still cultural idiosyncrasies that divide us and prevent full relaxation....at least as far as I have felt. Some of these are socioeconomic in nature...others aren't.

[doodle]

Another thought exercise...how many people upon visiting Japan would be disappointed to find out that instead of being a unique country full of Japanese people and Japanese tradition was instead overrun by pasty white people blasting beach boy music from their Cadillacs. That when asking natives to describe Japanese food they would shrug their shoulders as if the question was incomprehensible...that Shinto temples suddenly had been converted into churches and native festivals were only celebrated with trepidation for fear of excluding the white Christians and in respect the Japanese would instead decorate their cities with Christmas wreaths and images of santa. Would you consider this a positive expression of diversity?

[dualstow]

Another thought exercise...how many people upon visiting Japan would be disappointed to find out that instead of being a unique country full of Japanese people and Japanese tradition was instead overrun by pasty white people blasting beach boy music from their Cadillacs.
...

I think about this all the time. I simultaneously criticize the Japanese for their xenophobia (despite their love for foreign products and tastes) and adore Japan for its homogeneity. It's the club I love that would never have me, the converse of Groucho's pithy saying.

P.S. I wonder how often they struggle with PC concepts and multiculturalism in Japan, or China or Korea. I bet they use that extra time to focus on math.

[stuper1]

If I were the Japanese, I would keep things the way they are, and continue to severely restrict immigration, so that they can enjoy their culture, and the rest of us can also enjoy their culture if we choose to visit.

For America, it is much more complicated, because we have been multicultural almost since day one, i.e., mixing Europeans and Africans (involuntarily). The mixture of cultures has only accelerated recently. The media would like us to think this is a good thing. Why do they indoctrinate us so? Of course, it's because our whole economy is basically one big Ponzi scheme, and big business can only continue to rake in the profits as long as they have a growing supply of consumers and cheap labor. But who suffers from this? The middle class, of course. The media would have us believe that just wanting to have a discussion about what is a good level of immigration makes a person a racist. This is ridiculous.

[dualstow]

Of course, it's because our whole economy is basically one big Ponzi scheme.

You don't feel like we've created anything along the way? Where did our satellites and flush toilets come from?

[Pointedstick]

Go ahead and learn, Doodle. It's interesting stuff. But in the end, it's all pretty obvious to people without severe ideological blinders. And as you're already intuiting, most people--even those who profess denial--actually live their lives according to this stuff anyway. Differences and boundaries exist, but are nebulous at the margins. We all want some separation from things that we judge too different, but enjoy it up until that very fuzzy point. And human kindness, while not possible to deploy universally, makes everything better. Focusing on the kinds of differences that are easily judgable to be superior and inferior (e.g. intelligence) slowly twists you into a jerk. It's subtle, but it happens, and you won't be able to see it. In your mind, you'll just be "using logic and reason," "telling it like it is," or "speaking truth to power" or whatever phraseology you use to convince yourself that you're right.

[farjean2]

Another thought exercise...how many people upon visiting Japan would be disappointed to find out that instead of being a unique country full of Japanese people and Japanese tradition was instead overrun by pasty white people blasting beach boy music from their Cadillacs. That when asking natives to describe Japanese food they would shrug their shoulders as if the question was incomprehensible...that Shinto temples suddenly had been converted into churches and native festivals were only celebrated with trepidation for fear of excluding the white Christians and in respect the Japanese would instead decorate their cities with Christmas wreaths and images of santa. Would you consider this a positive expression of diversity?

It is always interesting to visit foreign countries where they believe their culture is worth preserving and not something that needs to be flushed down the toilet.

I ran into something analogous to what you are describing above on my recent trip to Australia. If there was any such thing as local Australian cuisine I don't know what it would be. Local cuisine in every small town we went through consisted mainly of McDonalds and often ONLY McDonalds. Occasionally there was a Hungry Jack's which is Burger King and sometimes a KFC. Ironically, we found more diversity in food choices when we stopped for a week in Hawaii on the way home.

[stuper1]

Of course, it's because our whole economy is basically one big Ponzi scheme.

You don't feel like we've created anything along the way? Where did our satellites and flush toilets come from?

Our culture has created many wonderful things. My post was focused on the present and future. In the past, we had a large middle class. Does it seem we are headed that way in the future? To me, it seems we are headed toward a small number of very rich people and a large number of poor people with a dwindling number of people in the middle. I believe that excess immigration is one major cause of that.

[Pointedstick]

This is what the modern left has wrought.

By treating its opponents' ideas as taboos and dangerous magic that ought to be banished, it has turned them into sources of power that proliferate in secret. Exiling them from liberal society fed the beast that eventually elected Donald Trump president.

Far from teaching their children skepticism or critical thinking skills, today's coastal leftists teach unquestioning acceptance of the 1960s counterculture's conclusions. Modern liberal arts colleges are indoctrination factories where conservatives and their viewpoints are extinct, heavily marginalized, or at best treated as museum pieces--quaint examples of the past beyond which we have progressed.

There is vast, unimaginable ignorance on the left regarding how the right actually thinks and what they believe. You don't win by misunderstanding your opponents. And indeed, as their cultural cho chamber has been becoming ever more airtight, liberals have repeatedly lost at just about every level of government over the past 10 years.

[Michellebell]

I have to add, my mother was born in Korea and moved here when she was ten. She and some of my family members have used the term "Americanized" to describe how she changed. I'm not sure if other immigrant families use that term anymore. She ended up marrying my father, who is caucasian and was born here. If there is racism in my family, it's definitely been from the Koreans against the white people. My grandmother refused to speak to my mom for years because she married and American. She changed her mind after she met me though.

Even though I'm half Korean, often people mistaken me for full Asian. I have NEVER been treated unkindly because of my race. Actually growing up I often gravitated toward friendships with other Asian girls. This was probably because we looked like each other and had similar, how do I say, overbearing mothers. I think it is human nature to gravitate toward people who are similar to you. This is not something "evil" but probably natural. Full caucasians have always treated me well also. Now that I live in Ohio, there are very few Asians here so all of my friends are white. I work with some black people who are very nice, but I am not friends with them outside of work. It's not that I don't like them. I just don't have an interest in getting together with any teachers outside of work at all.

At the same time, I think that the "melting pot" concept is very good. People of all races in America should be treated the same, ideally held to the same standards, speak the same language, and judged according to how they behave and not by the color of their skin. Actually, I think that some of the things that the left stands for goes directly against this "melting pot" notion of us all coming together. It's like they want people to be held to different standards and therefore judged solely on skin color. And they want to keep everyone in their separate corners and have pride in their differences, unless they're white.

[ochotona]

Doodle, I think you are committing the error of confusing correlation with causation. I don't think you are concerned about physical race... I think you are concerned about culture. It's easy to confuse the two because we get our culture and all of our behaviors from our families... mostly.

My wife's best friend was taken in infancy away from the Afro-Caribbean land of her birth, and raised by European parents (actual EU citizens) in the USA. She is 100% "White" culturally, and she's physically mixed-race Afro-Latina. Who cares if she comes from a racial group that may have a statistical central tendency for lower IQ? My wife isn't friends with a group, she's friends with one person. And IQ is a very narrow measure of people. We know of many high-IQ serial killers. Kaczynski, Speck, Bundy, Manson...

Anyway, lower IQ is probably caused by bad culture anyway. If you raise a baby in a bad culture and environment, they're going to under-achieve. It takes work to raise a decent person. That isn't hard to understand. I have been to the land of her birth, and most probably the region and city where she was born, and it has ugly spots, for sure. Probably if she'd stayed there in the Caribbean with the mother who gave her up, she'd be less accomplished than she is today. She her IQ would register lower. So what would that IQ measure? Her genetics and innate (but unrealized) human potential, or bad upbringing?

So let's change the title of the thread to pride about British / Irish / European culture. I'm OK with that. I go to an Anglican Church, I'm an Anglophile. And since it's a culture I choose, I can celebrate it also. It's my culture! Culture is software, it runs on different systems.