The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by jalanlong » Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:39 pm

[quote=vnatale post_id=238694 time=1646841726 user_id=3123

I resist any attempt for the "freedom" lovers to turn this into a freedom issue.

[/quote]

Actually seat belts are probably the worst issue you could possibly have hung your hat on in a freedom debate as they are one of the most egregious examples of a law that only exists to protect the individual from their own choice with little to no downstream effect.

As for your statement about people not protesting it, I fail to see what popular opinion has to do with whether a law is moral or constitutional. I’m sure you can go back in history and figure out horrible laws that would have passed public consensus at the time.

Yes, I am guilty of having a strict ideological view of Freedom. I do so because inherent in the entire concept is that it does not depend on giving politicians or other citizens the choices for my life. Saying someone has a strict ideology of freedom is like saying i have a narrow view of what a tree is. It is what it is, not what others agree it is.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by vnatale » Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:47 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:39 pm

[quote=vnatale post_id=238694 time=1646841726 user_id=3123

I resist any attempt for the "freedom" lovers to turn this into a freedom issue.



Actually seat belts are probably the worst issue you could possibly have hung your hat on in a freedom debate as they are one of the most egregious examples of a law that only exists to protect the individual from their own choice with little to no downstream effect.

As for your statement about people not protesting it, I fail to see what popular opinion has to do with whether a law is moral or constitutional. I’m sure you can go back in history and figure out horrible laws that would have passed public consensus at the time.

Yes, I am guilty of having a strict ideological view of Freedom. I do so because inherent in the entire concept is that it does not depend on giving politicians or other citizens the choices for my life. Saying someone has a strict ideology of freedom is like saying i have a narrow view of what a tree is. It is what it is, not what others agree it is.
[/quote]

It's a major difference in world view between us. When I am frustrated in trying to achieve something I never have hung in on to me not being allowed my freedoms. Instead, I always think it was because of some deficiency in me. Which is a sure sign of a neurotic who blames her- or himself for failings as opposed to psychotics who will blame their failings on others.

In other words I believe myself to have an extreme high level of control over my own life, rarely think of how the government or any similar authority impedes my life, and accept great responsibility and consequences for all the actions / choices I make (or, correspondingly, neglect to do so).
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by jalanlong » Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:28 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:47 pm


It's a major difference in world view between us. When I am frustrated in trying to achieve something I never have hung in on to me not being allowed my freedoms. Instead, I always think it was because of some deficiency in me. Which is a sure sign of a neurotic who blames her- or himself for failings as opposed to psychotics who will blame their failings on others.

In other words I believe myself to have an extreme high level of control over my own life, rarely think of how the government or any similar authority impedes my life, and accept great responsibility and consequences for all the actions / choices I make (or, correspondingly, neglect to do so).
All of what you just wrote completely contradicts your earlier statement that you never wore a seat belt until compelled by authority to do so and therefore such compulsion is a good thing.

In any case, that is a huge stretch to imply that because I am opposed to a central authority requiring me to wear seat belts that I am "blaming" others for some sort of failure on my part and then go on to say that psychotics (ie. me) blame their failures on others. In fact it is quite the opposite. I prefer a world where I can decide what risks I will and will not take and then suffer the benefits or consequences of my decisions. When I fail or someone I know fails, I never ever think "there should be a law to fix that" which is the ultimate in not taking responsibility.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by vnatale » Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:54 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 5:28 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:47 pm



It's a major difference in world view between us. When I am frustrated in trying to achieve something I never have hung in on to me not being allowed my freedoms. Instead, I always think it was because of some deficiency in me. Which is a sure sign of a neurotic who blames her- or himself for failings as opposed to psychotics who will blame their failings on others.

In other words I believe myself to have an extreme high level of control over my own life, rarely think of how the government or any similar authority impedes my life, and accept great responsibility and consequences for all the actions / choices I make (or, correspondingly, neglect to do so).


All of what you just wrote completely contradicts your earlier statement that you never wore a seat belt until compelled by authority to do so and therefore such compulsion is a good thing.

In any case, that is a huge stretch to imply that because I am opposed to a central authority requiring me to wear seat belts that I am "blaming" others for some sort of failure on my part and then go on to say that psychotics (ie. me) blame their failures on others. In fact it is quite the opposite. I prefer a world where I can decide what risks I will and will not take and then suffer the benefits or consequences of my decisions. When I fail or someone I know fails, I never ever think "there should be a law to fix that" which is the ultimate in not taking responsibility.


Because the law regarding seat belts turned out to be a fabulous outcome for me should not be generalized into thinking that I can only do things if forced to by some entity outside of myself. To the contrary I fairly much lead my life the way I want to: In many aspects outside the norms of society.

I was describing myself as a neurotic. I was also describing psychotics but leaving it up to you to decide if it fit you.

I do agree with all the rest of your paragraph after the first sentence.

I cannot think of any other law, though, for me that had such a positive impact as the seat belt law. Getting me to do something I wanted to go but just could not sufficiently self-motivate myself to do so. It inculcated such a good habit that when I started riding motorcyles, I was looking for my seat belt!
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Xan » Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:15 pm

I'm curious what you would say, Vinny, if the seatbelt law folks wanted to ban motorcycles.

a) you can't wear a seat belt on a motorcycle
b) such a law would save a lot of lives
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:29 pm

Restaurants Are Now Adding ‘Equity’ Charges to Customers’ Checks to Fight Oppression
https://fee.org/articles/restaurants-ar ... ppression/
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by vnatale » Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:41 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:15 pm

I'm curious what you would say, Vinny, if the seatbelt law folks wanted to ban motorcycles.

a) you can't wear a seat belt on a motorcycle
b) such a law would save a lot of lives


It is too unrealistic a hypothetical to ponder.

The law would pass nowhere.

Again, because of one law that had a highly positive effect on my life I'm being characterized overall as something I am not.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:07 am

I found this article on the Florian Jaeger case at U of Rochester to be fascinating.

https://reason.com/2022/03/14/how-an-ac ... too-panic/
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:35 am

more BLM-related fraud
That all officially unraveled Tuesday morning with Cannon-Grant’s arrest. Her husband had been indicted a few weeks ago, on mortgage fraud charges, though he faces a slew of new charges in the indictment unsealed Tuesday.

It’s all shocking. Though also not. It wasn’t a big secret that Violence In Boston was all Monica, that there wasn’t a huge amount of fiscal oversight or accountability.

The truth is, Monica Cannon-Grant’s meteoric rise never got the scrutiny it should have. When people asked what Violence in Boston really did with its money, people shrugged. When some raised questions about whether she was really equipped to handle the windfall her organization was reaping, those questions were dismissed as tasteless, rude, and possibly racist and sexist.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/03/15/ ... verberate/
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:39 pm

It's like George Constanza's The People Fund. Honestly what a great scam.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:32 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:39 pm
It's like George Constanza's The People Fund. Honestly what a great scam.
O0 The Human Fund - Money for People O0

On a serious note, imagine all the honest people working to improve the Black community. They’re collateral damage from this shit.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:57 pm

San Francisco is boycotting 28 U.S. states 😂
https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-san-fra ... 1647385763

SF is now boycotting most of the United States,” says a headline at San Francisco’s news site Mission Local. Reporter Joe Eskenazi, who seems to support the spirit of the boycotts, nevertheless explains why the sanctions regime presents a challenge for the city:
San Francisco can’t forge the parts it needs to keep its buses running, fix its buildings or run its computers. It has to buy things, lots of things, from elsewhere.


But…those boycotts.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by vnatale » Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:06 pm

dualstow wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:35 am

more BLM-related fraud

That all officially unraveled Tuesday morning with Cannon-Grant’s arrest. Her husband had been indicted a few weeks ago, on mortgage fraud charges, though he faces a slew of new charges in the indictment unsealed Tuesday.

It’s all shocking. Though also not. It wasn’t a big secret that Violence In Boston was all Monica, that there wasn’t a huge amount of fiscal oversight or accountability.


The truth is, Monica Cannon-Grant’s meteoric rise never got the scrutiny it should have. When people asked what Violence in Boston really did with its money, people shrugged. When some raised questions about whether she was really equipped to handle the windfall her organization was reaping, those questions were dismissed as tasteless, rude, and possibly racist and sexist.


https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/03/15/ ... verberate/


From having worked for a non-profit for many years I'm wary of donating money to anything without thoroughly scrutinizing their operations and where the money goes.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:35 am

Disney Parks’ diversity and inclusion manager, Vivian Ware, (says) the company has “removed all of the gendered greetings” at its theme parks. No more “Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.” No longer will a little girl in a gown be greeted with a “Hello, princess!”
https://nypost.com/2022/03/30/disney-is ... y-to-kids/
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:34 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:35 am
Disney Parks’ diversity and inclusion manager, Vivian Ware, (says) the company has “removed all of the gendered greetings” at its theme parks. No more “Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.” No longer will a little girl in a gown be greeted with a “Hello, princess!”
https://nypost.com/2022/03/30/disney-is ... y-to-kids/
Oh for Christ’s sake.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Xan » Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:43 pm

Then there's this:
Disney exec vows more gay characters amid huge inclusivity push
A Disney executive vowed more inclusivity in its productions — as the entertainment giant works to make underrepresented groups, such as racial minorities and the LGBTQ community, account for at least 50 percent of its regular characters by the end of the year.
“I’m here as a mother of two queer children, actually,” Burke said on the call. “One transgender child and one pansexual child, and also as a leader.”

It's fairly horrifying to hear a child described as anything-sexual, but I suppose we don't know how old this "child" is.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had said "I and everyone I know are the product of a male/female sexual union. My children only date people of the opposite sex. We need to have massively outsized representation of heteronormativity."

It seems to be the case that younger people have hugely higher rates of, let's say, alternative sexuality than people from older generations. Doesn't one have to conclude that the difference is a result of all the marketing about how awesome homosexuality is?

Interestingly, I think that makes (let's say for example) the church's traditionalist position on sexuality more palatable. In a world where less than 1% of people are homosexual (and are really devoted to it), the church could have the appearance of persecuting a helpless minority. In a world where 25% of people identify as something other than heterosexual, then the church is calling on people to voluntarily restrict their actions for their own good and that of their neighbors.

Restrict your thoughts to not coveting. (9th and 10th commandments)
Restrict your speaking to the truth, or the best construction on ambiguity. (8th commandment)
Restrict your actions to not stealing or murdering (or even anger). (7th and 5th commandments)
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (Matthew 7:12)
Trust only in Jesus for salvation, not anything else. (John 14:6)

In a list like that (and other religions would have similar things), this one fits right in:
Restrict your sexuality to one member of the opposite sex. (6th commandment)
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:31 am

Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:43 pm

It seems to be the case that younger people have hugely higher rates of, let's say, alternative sexuality than people from older generations. Doesn't one have to conclude that the difference is a result of all the marketing about how awesome homosexuality is?
THIS. Adolescence and teen life can be rough, and there has always been an “alt” crowd or a variety of them. But now those crowds are formed around sexuality and gender and there are a lot of very confused kids that are just desperate to find a place to fit in.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:24 am

Genuine gender dysphoria is a real thing and some adults need a sex change to feel right. But yeah, there are reports that it’s getting faddish. A camp counselor who’s trans had a lot of young campers who spontaneously decided they were “queer” or in need of a change. i’ve always been pro gay rights. i never thought I’d be sitting here thinking things have gone too far, but they have.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:35 am

p.s. saw on fox biz that Disney plans to expand to 10 “anti-gay” countries, like Pakistan.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by ppnewbie » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:03 am

flyingpylon wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:31 am
Xan wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:43 pm

It seems to be the case that younger people have hugely higher rates of, let's say, alternative sexuality than people from older generations. Doesn't one have to conclude that the difference is a result of all the marketing about how awesome homosexuality is?
THIS. Adolescence and teen life can be rough, and there has always been an “alt” crowd or a variety of them. But now those crowds are formed around sexuality and gender and there are a lot of very confused kids that are just desperate to find a place to fit in.
One concerning trend is that the medical industrial complex seems to be encouraging gender transitions at a relatively young age. The profit motive is HUGE per person.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by I Shrugged » Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:04 pm

I read an article about sex, and instead of writing “woman”, they used the term “vagina-haver”. A man was a penis-haver.

No matter, soon those will be deemed offensive and will be replaced.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:45 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:04 pm
I read an article about sex, and instead of writing “woman”, they used the term “vagina-haver”. A man was a penis-haver.

No matter, soon those will be deemed offensive and will be replaced.
I saw womb carrier in the past few days. I don’t suppose “big swinging dick” is acceptable for the other gender- oops, I mean one of the other 23 genders.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by joypog » Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:25 pm

ohh...I want to be objectified into my genatalia. Much more wholesome than using traditional words.
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by Xan » Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:27 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:45 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 12:04 pm
I read an article about sex, and instead of writing “woman”, they used the term “vagina-haver”. A man was a penis-haver.

No matter, soon those will be deemed offensive and will be replaced.
I saw womb carrier in the past few days. I don’t suppose “big swinging dick” is acceptable for the other gender- oops, I mean one of the other 23 genders.
It seems like we'll need a word to describe "people with penises and testicles" and another to describe "people with vaginas". I'm curious what, exactly, is wrong with using "man" and "woman" as those words...? Why can't a man who likes to wear dresses and makeup not just be a man who likes to wear dresses and makeup?
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Re: The Left is Eating Itself Pt. II

Post by dualstow » Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:47 pm

We’re all just people with different operating systems, Xan. Some run Eunuchs.
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