worst gold fund for 2019

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:50 am

this made the top 5 worst funds from yahoos 2019 worst funds list

'Invesco Gold & Precious Metals Investor (FGLDX): This fund has an expense ratio of 1.47% and management fee of 0.75%. FGLDX is classified as a Sector - Precious Metal fund, and these mutual funds invest in stocks with a focus on the mining and production of precious metals like gold, silver, platinum, and palladium. With an annual average return of 0.32% over the last five years, the only thing absolute about this absolute return fund is that it absolutely deserves to be on our "worst offender" list.
'

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mutual-f ... 01586.html
User avatar
europeanwizard
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:06 am
Location: The Netherlands, Europe

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by europeanwizard » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:41 am

I wonder how they justify that expense ratio. Or is it just milking their remaining client base for all they're worth?
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:34 am

i am not sure but that is nuts ..

it is so easy in the financial world to over charge because so many are so financially ignorant nor do they care to learn .

people care more about learning about their car , refrigerator or sports stuff then they do caring about learning about something as important as their money .
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:27 am

After I badgered my Dad to buy physical gold, he proudly told me that he finally bought some. Only he bought a gold fund. 😱
Van Eyck
That was a few years ago. Now he has American eagles in a safe deposit box.
RIP Marcello Gandini
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:40 am

back in the 1980's i took possession of gold i bought at fidelity ... back in the day i did not realize that because fidelity had an office in nyc there was sales tax charged if you took delivery .

so that was not a good thing ....

but the worst was when i wanted to sell, local dealers offered way way less than spot even on eagles .

so i ended up taking the nyc subway system at that time which was plagued with crime , loading 10k in gold in my daughters barbie knapsack and her and i went in to manhattan to deak international .

they gave us more but still way below spot ...today i think her original barbie knapsack appreciated more then the gold did ...

i don't want to hold more than a coin or two today . in fact our bank won't even let you store gold in the safe deposit box anymore .
User avatar
shekels
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 520
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:01 am

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by shekels » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:54 am

europeanwizard wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:41 am
I wonder how they justify that expense ratio. Or is it just milking their remaining client base for all they're worth?
I would guess many 401k's hold it as a option for it's participants.
I was blessed or not to have a 401k with about 6 options that were developed just for the major company that I worked for.
On top of that the funds were not public, and the only information you could get about the funds were through the company I worked for.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
User avatar
ochotona
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3353
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:54 am

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by ochotona » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:58 am

In my Fidelity account, I had a few dollars left over, so I pushed it into FSAGX, an also expensive Fidelity gold miners fund. That way I would not have idle cash sitting there, but way expensive. Would not buy more than $100 worth.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:09 am

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:40 am
...
back in the day i did not realize that because fidelity had an office in nyc there was sales tax charged if you took delivery .

Ouch! I wonder if Sophie is reading this, what the current laws are, and if there is any tax involved with taking delivery from Perth Mint. Probably not?

...
today i think her original barbie knapsack appreciated more then the gold did ...
😂 I know a guy who has made a small fortune buying and trading sneakers.
in fact our bank won't even let you store gold in the safe deposit box anymore .
Yeah, there's a thread on that. I think we decided the real upshot is that it means they don't take responsibility if it vanishes, which is something I've always assumed anyway. Because how would they know unless you lose it and complain?

I don't think the bank would help me out should the gold disappear, but I feel better having it there than at home.
I do not insure my gold.
I do visit the box twice a year, partly to keep it active and partly to get my wife accustomed to the process so she can bring it home one day.
RIP Marcello Gandini
User avatar
sophie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:15 pm

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by sophie » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:32 am

New York City modified its laws a while ago - there's no sales tax on gold bullion as long as the value is more than $1,000.

BTW for the benefit of readers who may not have picked up on this: the funds discussed in this thread are gold mining stocks, not gold. There's a big difference. Mining stocks may not track the price of gold and can be super risky, as they won't provide the counterbalance to the stock market that you generally want from gold. It's a little disingenuous, frankly, to have those funds labeled "precious metals".

For this reason, they have no place in the Permanent Portfolio or its offshoots. It would be a speculative buy only (thus this thread probably belongs in the VP section).
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:33 am

nyc finally did away with sales tax on gold . i regretted buying from fidelity and not benham capital at that time . benham had the zero coupon treasury funds back then . boy talk about volatile .
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:37 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:09 am
mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:40 am
...
back in the day i did not realize that because fidelity had an office in nyc there was sales tax charged if you took delivery .

Ouch! I wonder if Sophie is reading this, what the current laws are, and if there is any tax involved with taking delivery from Perth Mint. Probably not?

...
today i think her original barbie knapsack appreciated more then the gold did ...
😂 I know a guy who has made a small fortune buying and trading sneakers.
in fact our bank won't even let you store gold in the safe deposit box anymore .
Yeah, there's a thread on that. I think we decided the real upshot is that it means they don't take responsibility if it vanishes, which is something I've always assumed anyway. Because how would they know unless you lose it and complain?

I don't think the bank would help me out should the gold disappear, but I feel better having it there than at home.
I do not insure my gold.
I do visit the box twice a year, partly to keep it active and partly to get my wife accustomed to the process so she can bring it home one day.
with chase they forbit cash and gold that is not some form of collectible . it is not matter of not wanting to be responsible for it as no safe deposit box is covered for any loss , you need your own insurance .

if they see you doing it they will turn it over to authorities to find out why you are breaking your agreement and trying to hide cash and gold knowing it is forbidden .
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:06 pm

What is there a camera in there, in the private room? Not in my bank.
sophie wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:32 am
BTW for the benefit of readers who may not have picked up on this: the funds discussed in this thread are gold mining stocks, not gold.
Well, both. Mathjak wrote about taking possession of gold, so not from miners. Although that would be neat if we could do that. O0
RIP Marcello Gandini
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by Xan » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:10 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:37 am
If they see you doing it they will turn it over to authorities to find out why you are breaking your agreement and trying to hide cash and gold knowing it is forbidden .
In addition to dualstow's question of how, I'm wondering what authority would care about this, and exactly what the remedy would be other than "make the guy clear out his box and not rent it to him anymore", which the bank could do without the authorities.
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:15 pm

Chase is very clear ...
They are forbidding anything that is popular with money hiding or laundering .
They have a right to video or send an escort with you when you go to your box .

It is in your agreement that you give them permission to turn anything not permitted over to the proper authorities to look in to why you are trying to store and possibly hiding items not permitted .


In your contract for a box this is spelled out and you agree to it
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:19 pm

Interesting. If my bank changes its policy to something like Chase's, I guess I'll have to pack it in.
RIP Marcello Gandini
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:22 pm

From the agreement you sign

You agree not to use the box to store money, coin or currency unless it is of a collectable nature, and you assume all risks and hold the Bank harmless of any loss or alleged loss of said money, coin or currency.
You further agree not to use the box for any dangerous or unlawful purpose or for anything that can be considered a nuisance. You agree that we may turn over to any law enforcement or other governmental agency any object, of yours, which we believe, in our sole discretion, to be prohibited by the terms of this lease and we will bear no liability for doing so. You forfeit all rights to any contents stored in the box that are not permitted by the terms of this lease. You hold us harmless of any loss or alleged loss or other liability for any actions we take, at our discretion, with respect to such prohibited contents.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by Xan » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:26 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:22 pm
From the agreement you sign

You agree not to use the box to store money, coin or currency unless it is of a collectable nature, and you assume all risks and hold the Bank harmless of any loss or alleged loss of said money, coin or currency.
You further agree not to use the box for any dangerous or unlawful purpose or for anything that can be considered a nuisance. You agree that we may turn over to any law enforcement or other governmental agency any object, of yours, which we believe, in our sole discretion, to be prohibited by the terms of this lease and we will bear no liability for doing so. You forfeit all rights to any contents stored in the box that are not permitted by the terms of this lease. You hold us harmless of any loss or alleged loss or other liability for any actions we take, at our discretion, with respect to such prohibited contents.
Sheesh! Maybe it's from the agreement you sign, not me. That's a license to steal.
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:30 pm

I keep nothing in the box that i shouldnt so it’s a moot point
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:59 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:30 pm
I keep nothing in the box that i shouldnt so it’s a moot point
I'm grateful that you told us, though, so I can avoid Chase.

I only keep a local brick & mortar bank for two reasons -
(1) Local checks // pretty much obsolete nowadays
(2) free* gold storage


*Yes, there's a minimum balance for that, but it's paltry. I keep more in there to pay bills anyway.
RIP Marcello Gandini
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:16 pm

the free boxes are way to small for all the stuff we have . so we have to pay quite a bit for a bigger box . there is such demand around here that there are long waits for bigger boxes .

keep in mind banks cover nothing in a box so make sure you have your own insurance . as many found out in sandy , even flood damage is not covered by the bank
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by Xan » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:44 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:30 pm
I keep nothing in the box that i shouldnt so it’s a moot point
Not sure it's entirely moot. They have a broad discretion to determine what's allowed and what isn't. What if they determine what you have in there isn't collectible enough?
User avatar
mathjak107
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4456
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:54 am
Location: bayside queens ny
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:49 pm

There really is nothing not approved . We have just like rings ,earrings and bracelets plus paper work we want off premise .

Our sister building next door had a five alarm fire that started on the roof a few years ago..the water damage and subsequent theft of jewelry from some of the apartments at some point while they were evacuated made us rethink some of the stuff we kept in the apartment
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:31 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:16 pm
the free boxes are way to small for all the stuff we have . so we have to pay quite a bit for a bigger box . there is such demand around here that there are long waits for bigger boxes .

keep in mind banks cover nothing in a box so make sure you have your own insurance . as many found out in sandy , even flood damage is not covered by the bank
Here, too. Long wait for a big box. I started with the smallest. But, I’ve been with this branch since the 90s. Now I have the biggest. Plus, gold is compact. O0 I have a hard drive that I can always replace with a DVD 📀.

Insurance. Yes, Libertarian666 mentioned a company that I’d probably go with. But, if gold is my insurance, I don’t want to have to insure my insurance. Maybe I’ll change my mind if I ever buy “too many” ounces.
RIP Marcello Gandini
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:44 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:59 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:30 pm
I keep nothing in the box that i shouldnt so it’s a moot point
I'm grateful that you told us, though, so I can avoid Chase.

I only keep a local brick & mortar bank for two reasons -
(1) Local checks // pretty much obsolete nowadays
(2) free* gold storage


*Yes, there's a minimum balance for that, but it's paltry. I keep more in there to pay bills anyway.
Your bank offers free gold storage? Wow, that's a great deal!
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14225
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Post by dualstow » Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:56 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:44 pm
Your bank offers free gold storage? Wow, that's a great deal!
In effect, yes. At some point, when they were trying to sell me various investments, they waived the box fee forever. That guy moved on to a different bank, and I reconfirmed with his replacement that there is still no fee. I wouldn’t mind paying; I just don’t want to be billed without knowing it, which might lead to my box being drilled and emptied. Hence the regular visits.

I just need to keep a few thousand in checking, and they leave me alone.
RIP Marcello Gandini
Post Reply