PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by Xan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:56 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:43 pm
I am used to shadow boxing alone , my wife baby sits a lot .....oh man she just finished a 10 day stint baby sitting ....the food was great , I was bringing in all kinds of stuff , the sex was about the same , maybe better , but the dishes were a tip off she wasn’t here .....I use paper for everything..I won’t dare eat off anything I wash until it is professionally cleaned.

The only way she would let me eat the rib platter I brought home was if they used Lipitor as a dry rub. Lol
Okay, now that was gold. Wow. Still laughing.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:11 pm

You are forgetting I am a drummer , I thrive on music .... although when I do shows with the recording artists I am working with I do wear ear buds as things can get pretty loud .... I use the ear buds not only to protect my ears but I get a mix of things because on stage the delay coming back from some of these large venues can mix with what you hear on stage and the reflection confuses what you hear ....so I hear what everyone is doing without the venue echo coming back ....

Thankfully most venues have their own big house systems which are off stage ,so all the equipment the group uses on the stage is fairly small ...all that gets mixed through the house system and their monster system fills the house ...so on stage while my drums are loud. I have no issues with them ....but through the house system they rock
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:16 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:03 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:56 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:43 pm
I am used to shadow boxing alone , my wife baby sits a lot .....oh man she just finished a 10 day stint baby sitting ....the food was great , I was bringing in all kinds of stuff , the sex was about the same , maybe better , but the dishes were a tip off she wasn’t here .....I use paper for everything..I won’t dare eat off anything I wash until it is professionally cleaned.

The only way she would let me eat the rib platter I brought home was if they used Lipitor as a dry rub. Lol
Okay, now that was gold. Wow. Still laughing.
Yep, that was hilarious.

As far as the concerts go, I can't believe anyone over 50 goes to those things anymore. My last concert was 2 years ago; we saw the Foo Fighters at Wrigley Field and afterwards I swore I would never go to another. We had earplugs and my ears were still ringing for days. I told the GF we could have simply sat in my backyard (40 miles form the stadium) and heard it just fine. $13 beers, 30 minute lines for the bathroom, and the seats were expensive, but thankfully not anywhere near $600. There was nothing fun about the experience. [/oldfart]
My grandson is 5 and his little league team was the cubs ...so he said he wanted to see the real cubs play ....well that is all my son and I needed to hear ...

We got plane tickets and the three of us were off to Chicago for steak and wriggly field ....it was my first trip there ...what a great stadium and the celebrating around the stadium was like nothing we have here in new york
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:21 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:58 pm
Ya, it's a great stadium. And a great fan base, particularly when you consider what a let-down the Cubs have been (except one season) over the last 100 years. Unlike Yankee Stadium or the Met's, Wrigley is in a really nice yuppie neighborhood with lots of bars and restaurants. It's party-central there even when the Cubs aren't playing.
My wife was so jealous of our trip I had to take her there a few months ago .....I love Chicago ....we stayed on the Gold Coast by I guess what is known as the viagra triangle as it is called ....we ate dinner at the Chicago cut ..I never thought a steak would cost more than we pay here in nyc
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:23 pm

I was laughing at your comment about jumping up and down at the train’s arrival to embarrass your wife. O0 I keep picturing it and smiling.

So, after a downgrade, everyone’s going to ditch junk bonds...and buy dividend stocks? :D
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:32 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:03 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:56 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:43 pm
I am used to shadow boxing alone , my wife baby sits a lot .....oh man she just finished a 10 day stint baby sitting ....the food was great , I was bringing in all kinds of stuff , the sex was about the same , maybe better , but the dishes were a tip off she wasn’t here .....I use paper for everything..I won’t dare eat off anything I wash until it is professionally cleaned.

The only way she would let me eat the rib platter I brought home was if they used Lipitor as a dry rub. Lol
Okay, now that was gold. Wow. Still laughing.
Yep, that was hilarious.

As far as the concerts go, I can't believe anyone over 50 goes to those things anymore. My last concert was 2 years ago; we saw the Foo Fighters at Wrigley Field and afterwards I swore I would never go to another. We had earplugs and my ears were still ringing for days. I told the GF we could have simply sat in my backyard (40 miles form the stadium) and heard it just fine. $13 beers, 30 minute lines for the bathroom, and the seats were expensive, but thankfully not anywhere near $600. There was nothing fun about the experience. [/oldfart]
I go to a fair amount of music festivals -- great experience at great value. I can spend $100 for one with music Friday to Sunday. At least 35 hours of music being played on three different stages at once. Plus, other late, late night / early, early morning music.

Many of the bands are nationally known.

A few years ago I saw a country band in a tiny club. And, the guitarist had his Marshall amp turned up way, way, way too loud for a place that small. I left telling myself for times like that I needed to wear ear protection.

I tried to find something appropriate at Amazon but could not decide what was best. So I bought four or five different ones for about $70 total. Decided I did not want to put any more time into narrowing them down and my ears were certainly worth $70. The plan was I'd try out each pair and see which ones worked best.

I started with the cheapest ones -- about $13. And, I've not used any of the others since. They work great. Oftentimes I am right in front of the PA speakers while I'm taking pictures. I can definitely feel the sound on my body but when I take out those ear plugs I've never had a hint of ear ringing. Don't wear them all the time -- just when it is uncomfortably loud.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm

Loudest group I ever was exposed to was BLUE CHEER.. walls of stacked Marshall’s at the Fillmore East
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:53 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Yep. We use Downbeats https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A3Z44R2 $15 at Amazon, and I've been very happy with them.

The volume at that Foo Fighters concert was obscene.
David grohl ...good drummer ...
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:14 pm

I agree ...... I love groups like Styx , Chicago , tower of power .....Brent carter lead singer of tower of power at the time did my sons wedding
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:19 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:09 pm
He is now the singer/guitar. Tyler Hawkins is way better on the drums. My GF loves the FF; I find them too screamy and loud except for a few songs. Not my preferred style of music.
I loved the first album. All Dave Grohl on all the instruments and nice melodies. Was disappointed in the mostly screamy 2nd and 3rd albums, but there are a few great songs in there, and subsequent albums.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:38 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Yep. We use Downbeats https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A3Z44R2 $15 at Amazon, and I've been very happy with them.

The volume at that Foo Fighters concert was obscene.
Yes, exactly the ones that I use!

I keep them in my camera case at all times since if I'm going to hear live music my camera will be with me.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:40 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm
Loudest group I ever was exposed to was BLUE CHEER.. walls of stacked Marshall’s at the Fillmore East
I've never heard them live but have several of their records.

And, what you say underscores what I heard over 50 years ago. They were so loud when recording their first record that they had to record at Pier 6? I don't know what that is but it sounded impressive! And, you probably know what it means!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:50 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:40 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm
Loudest group I ever was exposed to was BLUE CHEER.. walls of stacked Marshall’s at the Fillmore East
I've never heard them live but have several of their records.

And, what you say underscores what I heard over 50 years ago. They were so loud when recording their first record that they had to record at Pier 6? I don't know what that is but it sounded impressive! And, you probably know what it means!

Vinny
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... son-98540/
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:12 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Yep. We use Downbeats https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A3Z44R2 $15 at Amazon, and I've been very happy with them.

The volume at that Foo Fighters concert was obscene.
These pictures illustrate my favorite locations to both take pictures and hear the music. I've been so spoiled by being so close to the music that I don't like either having an assigned seat or being far (more than 20 feet) away from the actual music. I want to see all the expressions on the faces of the musicians and, particularly, what the guitarists are doing with their hands. And, oftentimes being so close to them, they pose for me when they notice me taking their picture. Many of them have made my pictures their Facebook profile picture.

1) Sitting on the stage
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2) Leaning on the stage (top right)
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3) Taking a picture with elbows on the stage (that's me in the light blue, framed by the guitarist's legs)
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Capture2.JPG (71.72 KiB) Viewed 8898 times
4) Taking a picture of the guitarist of the all female band - Lez Zeppelin
Attachments
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Capture3.JPG (112.07 KiB) Viewed 8898 times
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:09 am

dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:50 pm
vnatale wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:40 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm
Loudest group I ever was exposed to was BLUE CHEER.. walls of stacked Marshall’s at the Fillmore East
I've never heard them live but have several of their records.

And, what you say underscores what I heard over 50 years ago. They were so loud when recording their first record that they had to record at Pier 6? I don't know what that is but it sounded impressive! And, you probably know what it means!

Vinny
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... son-98540/
they had a wave of sound that just assaulted your body ... in a smaller venue like the filmore they were just over powering .

today things are done very differently in the larger venues . stage equipment is smaller since everything gets mixed through the master board and uses the house system for the most part . even my drums go through the board . they sound so dynamic
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by Ad Orientem » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:16 pm

A quick point on AT&T which was much discussed earlier in this longish thread. It was noted that they were widely regarded as a widows and orphans stock but eventually they too cut their dividend. However these are two different companies. The original company was American Telephone and Telegraph (abbreviated AT&T) also known as Ma Bell. That company however got broken up by Jimmy Carter. The modern AT&T is not the same business. The old AT&T was a true widows and orphans stock that never cut its dividend in the entire history of the business even during the Great Depression.

They had a unique investment model. Investors who bought the company stock, either when first issued or later on the open market where they would have paid market value, had the option of reinvesting the dividends which were initially pegged at 8% of the original stock price of $100/share. If you reinvested your dividend you did so directly through the company and no matter what the share price was on the stock exchange, new issued shares purchased via the company reinvestment program were always sold at par ($100/share). What that meant was that when you were reinvesting your dividends you were effectively buying something close to an 8% forever bond that generally could be resold on the open market for quite a bit more than par because there was such a demand to get in on the reinvestment scheme. It was a brilliantly successful scheme for the company which ensured a constant flow of revenue that they were using for expansion and R&D while providing happy investors with a steady stream of income that was widely regarded as only slightly riskier than US Treasury bonds.

In the early 1930's when the market had dropped near 90% from its 1929 record high, even AT&T took a bit of a hit. The market value of their shares was for the first time below the par dividend of 9%, yielding almost $11/share. (The company had raised their dividend to $9 in the 20's.) This meant that some people were not reinvesting their shares and there was widespread fear that AT&T would cut their dividend due to this and the effects of the depression. A lot of people were heavily dependent on that dividend to make ends meat during this dark period in history. The board of directors met and almost immediately resolved to stand by the dividend which required dipping into the corporate cash reserves. When they did that, the stock price shot back up and that was when AT&T gained its reputation as the ultimate widows and orphans stock.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:08 pm

It has been a dog in modern day investing
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by Ad Orientem » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:09 pm

Yeah. If I were interested in a dividend portfolio I'd not bother trying to pick the right stocks. Once again, indexing is your best route. I'd go with VIG and VIGI. I don't think that this is likely to outperform conventional stock indexes over time. Whether or not it would outperform the HBPP in something along the lines of a 75% dividend stock index / 25% STT index I can't say. But I'd be very uncomfortable with any portfolio that excludes gold.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:53 am

look at the darling of wall street in 2008 DVY ..... because the sweet spot was financials it got crushed more than the market did .

to get a better return then a broad index you need to bet on sector weighting ... all is good until it is that sectors time in the toilet .

as far as gold goes , there are times i do hold it or at least trade it , and other times i have no use for it .

the pp is actually my variable portfolio. my main portfolio's dont hold gold at all. the thing with tlt or gld is they are very sensitive to risk on risk off .. blink and your gains evaporate and the cycles around again can take a long time ...
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by Xan » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:23 am

In the spirit of submitting some (more) supporting documentation, rather than restarting a heated argument:

I was reading this article about British private schools creating franchises in other countries, and it contained this quote:
Erlan Ospanov ... confirms that the Kazakh school is structured as a nonprofit. “This is not business at all,” he says. “We are not legally allowed to get dividends.”
Aha!

So I went looking for what makes a nonprofit a nonprofit. Many definitions center around the goals, reasons, missions, etc of forming a nonprofit. I'm looking for what makes it actually different from a for-profit company, structurally. Emphasis is mine.

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/how-is-a- ... ss-2502472
Income that must never be distributed to any owners but recycled back into the nonprofit corporation's public benefit mission and activities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization
In economic terms, it is an organization using its surplus of the revenues to further achieve its ultimate objective, rather than distributing its income to the organization's shareholders, leaders, or members.
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profi ... anizations:
No part of the net earnings of a section 501(c)(3) organization may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual.


The difference between Tesla and a hypothetical nonprofit with a mission to make electric cars viable for the masses is this: Tesla CAN pay a dividend, while the nonprofit COULD NOT. The reason the company has value is because of the promise of a future dividend, regardless of whether one is ever actually paid.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:34 pm

i think comparing a non profit to a for profit company of any type is way off base . but i have no desire to start this up again
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by boglerdude » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:24 pm

Non profits can hire extra administrators and pay them exorbitant salaries.

Xan your not wrong, net profit expectations are part of the equation to value a company. The word "dividend" is narrowly defined as a forced quarterly withdrawal. It's not always a good thing.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by dualstow » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:33 pm

You know what didn't get lost between 2016 and now?
Unreinvested ____________s. (Starts with a D).
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:42 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:33 pm
You know what didn't get lost between 2016 and now?
Unreinvested ____________s. (Starts with a D).
Nor did what i sold from my portfolio myself to reduce the allocation down while we were still breaking new highs last year ...now I have 7 figures in cash to be deployed.. not all ear marked for stocks again obviously...
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by dualstow » Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:08 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:42 pm
dualstow wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:33 pm
You know what didn't get lost between 2016 and now?
Unreinvested ____________s. (Starts with a D).
Nor did what i sold from my portfolio myself to reduce the allocation down while we were still breaking new highs last year ...now I have 7 figures in cash to be deployed.. not all ear marked for stocks again obviously...
My takeaway from that: if you don't have mathjak's timing skill, and most people don't -- I don't -- then: __v__d___n_ds.

By the way, they're also good for something while I wait for my shares to rise.
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