Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

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Tortoise
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:05 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:39 am
We are losing, and will continue to lose people. But, once this is resolved, we will (probably) discover that we were too aggressive in the measures taken, and/or they weren't the right measures to take (maybe Sweden will be a good example of what countries should have done).
+1
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:39 am
In any event, if this was meant to be a world changing event, we already normally have 150k people who die worldwide every day. This doesn't look to come anywhere near even a few days of normal worldwide deaths.
Those 150k deaths per day are spread out over the entire year, but the exponential growth of this global pandemic threatened to compress most of the hospitalizations and deaths into a very short time window -- threatening to overwhelm hospitals around the world. Meaning a lot of people who wouldn't normally have to die from this virus would die due to lack of available hospital care. That's what the shutdowns are primarily trying to avoid -- the unnecessary deaths due to overloading the system.

I'm not saying the shutdown strategy is completely valid or justified; I'm just pointing out its driving motivation.
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:39 am
Take advantage to increase the size of government? If anything, this virus has hastened the path to a federal government collapse and has put many state governments on the brink, and I assume local governments are getting killed also. And what will they be able to do? Raise taxes on a population that now has 10/20/30% unemployment? Impossible. I see a lot of bankruptcies becoming the norm, and with it, smaller governments.
I suspect a lot of state and local governments will be bailed out directly or indirectly by the federal government in the coming months and years. Don't you think people would clamor for that before they would accept smaller governments and give up their government benefits and protections?
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:39 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:05 pm
I suspect a lot of state and local governments will be bailed out directly or indirectly by the federal government in the coming months and years. Don't you think people would clamor for that before they would accept smaller governments and give up their government benefits and protections?
That part will be interesting to see. The system still seems amazingly resilient to an amazing amount of money printing. It feels like something should break, but what do I know?

On the deaths, that was 150k per day in the world. Most are concentrated in certain areas. Overall, the world has seen ~36,000 deaths since, let's say the first time WHO issued an emergency on Jan 30. That's 60 days, or 600 more deaths per day (simplistic, I know). Concentrated in Italy, Spain, China and the US, and doesn't take into account hospitalizations.

The more this goes on here in the US, the more unbelievable the numbers in China seem to become.

As I've found this morning at: https://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php ... arroworld/

2018 flu hospitalizations overwhelmed places in the US:

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01 ... 516800130/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/overwhelme ... alifornia/

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la- ... story.html

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/01/11 ... -be-aware/

I do not recall these stories two years ago, and I have no sense how overflow compares now vs. then.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:35 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:30 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:39 am

So in the end, what will change? If anything, the world community will become more resistant to these strong government lockdown measures. Isn't that the opposite effect of what a lot of these conspiracies are worried about?


IDK. Has there been a mass rebellion against TSA at airports? I think we can all agree at this point that it is complete theater and no more, yet the lemmings have seemed to just accept it as part of the process. I, at least, bitch under my breath during the entire time I stand in any line at the airport. I mean, therre's not much you an do except play their game and get TSA-pre, which I did.
An hour lost here and there for theater at the airport is no big deal, and I would guess heavy fliers would do like you did to get around it.

A 24 hour a day, 2 month long lockdown with no schools or businesses open except grocery stores seems like more of a once in a generation type thing and if were to happen again, I think a lot more thought would go into it before doing so. And a lot more people would be like those Spring Break beachgoers, saying screw this. IMO.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:47 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:39 pm
The more this goes on here in the US, the more unbelievable the numbers in China seem to become.
Agreed. The Chinese government is definitely fudging their numbers -- probably to give the impression that their authoritarian measures worked perfectly as planned. ::)
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:39 pm
2018 flu hospitalizations overwhelmed places in the US:
[...]
I do not recall these stories two years ago, and I have no sense how overflow compares now vs. then.
Yeah, I don't doubt that the virus is rapidly spreading, but each day I'm growing increasingly skeptical of the idea that certain hospitals are truly "overwhelmed" with Covid-19 respiratory emergencies. It may be happening, but I just haven't seen convincing ground truth yet.

Luckily many people in my family work at hospitals and clinics, so eventually I'll hear the truth directly from them. In the meantime, I'm very skeptical of all of this potentially fake news.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Mark Leavy » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:25 pm

Captain's Log
30 March 2020

While patrolling the deserted streets of Kanab I encountered an officer from the pre-pandemic era.
I was unable to determine when he first encountered the virus. I fear I may be the only survivor.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by boglerdude » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:46 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyz79sd_SDA

Protests over the 08 bailout in NY. Cant do that now can ya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VprJo2jeWOk

Last year: H3N2 overwhelms hospitals.

I'm on board with this theater if it musters the political will to move the homeless into a zoo.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by I Shrugged » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:56 pm

Kanab is a neat town.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:06 am

Conspiracy Submission #1,694

The virus is a genetic-guided bomb. We can see that it doesn't affect some people, though they can transmit it to others. This is due to the fact that they don't have the genes that it targets.
Attention has focused on a study by Zhao et al. (2020), who, using lung tissue from several donors, studied a receptor, ACE2, that acts as the point of entry for some coronaviruses, including the one responsible for the outbreak in Wuhan. They found that the receptor was concentrated in certain cells and that the number of such cells in lung tissue was five times greater in the Asian donor. Yes, there was only one Chinese donor, but the chances are very low that the same normal distribution would produce such an extreme outlier.

This finding is also consistent with those of previous studies. Cheng et al. (2007) looked at other receptors for viral infections and found differences between Chinese and other human populations. In the specific case of pulmonary diseases, Seitz et al. (2012) studied the prevalence of bronchiectasis in the United States and found a prevalence 2.5 to 3.9 times higher among Asian Americans than among Euro Americans or African Americans. Kwak et al. (2010) likewise found a high prevalence of bronchiectasis in Korean adults.
Cao et al. (2020) looked at the different alleles for the ACE2 receptor gene in two databases: the China Metabolic Analytics Project and the 1000 Genomes Project. They found large differences in allele frequencies among human populations, not only between Asians and other human groups but also between different Asian groups. "These data suggested that there was a lack of natural resistant mutations for coronavirus S-protein binding in [some] populations." via Peter Frost
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by shekels » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:38 pm

Conspiracy Theory : a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators.
That does not mean it is not TRUE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JLBXfKDbbI
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by dualstow » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:22 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:10 pm
Going to put this out there -- I LOVE conspiracy theories. For entertainment value... mostly. O0

I'm personally 100% of the belief that COVID-19 has totally natural origins where the wrong, say, bat came into contact with a human.
...
That's the realist part of me.

The conspiracy theory part of me? COVID-19 was intentionally released from the weaponized biological research lab in Wuhan. Intentionally released by allowing infected animals to be bought and sold at the Wuhan wet market. The Chinese government is sly. They don't want to face the rest of the world in a toe to toe battle, so they're achieving world domination through economic means, political cloak and dagger, and this virus.

Between this virus, the undermining of the U.S. dollar, the huge population, and the buildup of traditional weapons, China is gunning to be the next global empire.
They didn't do it this time, but they're saying to themselves, hey, we could really wreak havoc in the future and get away with it. O0 They'll have a vaccine for the motherland only. Empire intact. O0
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Maddy » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:35 pm

You don't keep a common cold virus (common coronavirus) in a P4 lab. P4 labs are intended for the most dangerous pathogens on the planet, and the research there typically involves DNA/RNA recombinance. If this virus came out of a P4 lab, you can be virtually certain it was an engineered one.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by dualstow » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:37 pm

Maddy wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:35 pm
You don't keep a common cold virus (common coronavirus) in a P4 lab.
Unless they're crazy like a fox?
What do I know from P4 labs. Ok, it's in a P5 lab. 🤷‍♂️
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Tyler » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:51 pm

Of course I don't speak Chinese so I have to take his work for it, but I found this interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcS ... e=youtu.be
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by dualstow » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:20 pm

Tyler wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:51 pm
Of course I don't speak Chinese so I have to take his work for it, but I found this interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcS ... e=youtu.be
Interesting indeed. i watched the whole thing (at 1.25x speed).
Side note: he has a funny handle. 老外, usually spelled laowai but pronounced as it’s spelled in his handle, means foreigner.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by vnatale » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:38 pm

Coronavirus conspiracy theorist charged with derailing a train in California

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus ... story.html
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Hal » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:41 am

Smith1776 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:10 pm
Going to put this out there -- I LOVE conspiracy theories. For entertainment value... mostly. O0
+1

Frog Conspiracy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldfGaoJIPDs

Fluoride Conspiracy - https://ia801709.us.archive.org/10/item ... gelove.mp4

Even a cartoon character conspiracy
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:01 am

A train engineer tried to crash into the US Mercy Hospital ship. So "people would know what is going on".
A train engineer at the Port of Los Angeles is facing federal charges for allegedly charging a locomotive off tracks toward the USNS Mercy, which he suspected is tied to a government plot, federal prosecutors said Wednesday.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Mark Leavy » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:40 am

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:32 am
Love the new avatar, Mark. Is that one of your salt water boiled bandanas?
Yes indeed. Thanks! It is crazy stiff. Almost like cardboard.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:17 pm

There must be thousands of researchers examining this virus. Could some of them tell if it was engineered?
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by mdwilson1991 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:33 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:17 pm
There must be thousands of researchers examining this virus. Could some of them tell if it was engineered?
Yes, they can tell if was engineered. It wasn't.

Check the article I posted earlier in this thread. (We don't seem to have post numbers here, or I would just say look at post #...)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 175442.htm
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by flyingpylon » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:45 pm

mdwilson1991 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:33 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:17 pm
There must be thousands of researchers examining this virus. Could some of them tell if it was engineered?
Yes, they can tell if was engineered. It wasn't.

Check the article I posted earlier in this thread. (We don't seem to have post numbers here, or I would just say look at post #...)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 175442.htm
Funny how the "experts" left out the fact that the Chinese have tried to cover the whole thing up.

Oh well, I'm sure it's nothing...
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by Tortoise » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:49 pm

mdwilson1991 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:33 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:17 pm
There must be thousands of researchers examining this virus. Could some of them tell if it was engineered?
Yes, they can tell if was engineered. It wasn't.

Check the article I posted earlier in this thread. (We don't seem to have post numbers here, or I would just say look at post #...)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 175442.htm
To play devil's advocate: Something appearing to be naturally occurring doesn't necessarily prove that it's naturally occurring.

In numerous engineering disciplines, there are examples of engineering something to look similar to, or function indistinguishably from, something natural. Cryptography is one example, in which messages are manipulated in various ways to make them look indistinguishable from random noise or gibberish.

Is it inconceivable that scientists working on creating a new pathogen might want to start with a natural virus that's benign to humans and then genetically modify it in such a way that it could plausibly be mistaken for a random mutation?

I know the study mentioned in the Science Daily article claims to rule out that possibility, but it does so based on the fact that the mutation appears to be natural. Appearances can be deceiving.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by mdwilson1991 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:59 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:49 pm
mdwilson1991 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:33 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:17 pm
There must be thousands of researchers examining this virus. Could some of them tell if it was engineered?
Yes, they can tell if was engineered. It wasn't.

Check the article I posted earlier in this thread. (We don't seem to have post numbers here, or I would just say look at post #...)

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 175442.htm
To play devil's advocate: Something appearing to be naturally occurring doesn't necessarily prove that it's naturally occurring.

In numerous engineering disciplines, there are examples of engineering something to look similar to, or function indistinguishably from, something natural. Cryptography is one example, in which messages are manipulated in various ways to make them look indistinguishable from random noise or gibberish.

Is it inconceivable that scientists working on creating a new pathogen might want to start with a natural virus that's benign to humans and then genetically modify it in such a way that it could plausibly be mistaken for a random mutation?

I know the study mentioned in the Science Daily article claims to rule out that possibility, but it does so based on the fact that the mutation appears to be natural. Appearances can be deceiving.
People making nonsense up and putting it forth as "theory" is also deceiving.

The article is written by experts in the field. People who have forgotten more about immunology than everyone in this forum ever knew all added together.

I guess we can always just make shit up and say "maybe this happened, you can't prove it didn't."

Maybe aliens came down and live secretly among us, spreading the virus after receiving instructions from their HQ located underneath the Great Pyramid.

Anyway, this is not meant as a personal attack of anyone on this thread. It is just very dangerous for people to conjure up "explanations". That is the sort of thinking that leads to people believing in that nonsense and doing dangerous things.

Like intentionally crashing a train near a hospital ship. Or threatening the life of the top medical adviser to the President. Or firing a rifle inside a pizza shop because you actually believed Hilary Clinton was running a pedophile sex ring there.

[edited to sound less like a jerk, hopefully]
Last edited by mdwilson1991 on Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by dualstow » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:09 pm

mdwilson1991 wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:33 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:17 pm
There must be thousands of researchers examining this virus. Could some of them tell if it was engineered?
Yes, they can tell if was engineered. It wasn't.
Check the article I posted earlier in this thread. (We don't seem to have post numbers here, or I would just say look at post #...)
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 175442.htm
It's page 1. Not exactly a convenient post number, but you can mouse over the thread title in the specific post you want, and that will yield something like this:
Clickable: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10575#p191014
Full link with "#p____":

Code: Select all

https://www.gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10575#p191014
P.S. If the Chinese do bioengineer a virus, it will so obviously be a cheap knockoff of our American made ones, built with pride!
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Re: Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories

Post by shekels » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:33 pm

So Here are more Theories. Good Luck to you All.

Question: https://thecommonsenseshow.com/conspira ... e-war-mode

Answer:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRLDPy1A8pI


Also for the Younger crowd, what to look forward to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JLBXfKDbbI
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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