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Hal
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by Hal » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:14 pm
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by Maddy » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:15 am
2017. Sorry.
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vnatale
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by vnatale » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:59 am
Last summer I read this book:
Influenza: The Hundred-Year Hunt to Cure the 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic
https://smile.amazon.com/Influenza-The- ... l_huc_item
Its author is on C-Span right now and taking calls from viewers.
A called asked the question as to whether this virus was purposely caused.
I will henceforth always use his reply to just about every conspiracy theory I hear or reading regarding anything.
"Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence!"
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Smith1776
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by Smith1776 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:14 am
This looks like a
perfect book to read for quarantine.
Reading school textbooks just doesn't pass muster for rest and relaxation.
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vnatale
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by vnatale » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:19 am
Smith1776 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:14 am
This looks like a
perfect book to read for quarantine.
Reading school textbooks just doesn't pass muster for rest and relaxation.
I think I read it at one sitting while at an all-day music event on a Saturday last August. Kept picking it up whenever what was going on on stage was not drawing my eyes.
Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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WiseOne
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by WiseOne » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:45 am
I was reading some info about the coronavirus, to catch up on the latest. My sister (the ER doc) is reading too, and she says she thinks the virus was somehow engineered (and she's otherwise strongly inclined to be politically liberal). It's too perfect. The affinity for ACE receptors is unprecedented, and the key proteins on the coat are unusually good at invading human cells. It's also disturbing how many young people are showing up with severe cases. She told me about a family with COVID, where the parents are doing ok but the previously-healthy 17 year old son is on a vent and she thinks he won't survive. She said he went from a normal chest xray to severe, widespread ARDS in just 12 hours. Like those cases in the Washington nursing home.
So the key question of late has been: if you're on an ACE inhibitor should you stop it? Some of the risk factors for high mortality - hypertension, diabetes - are people likely to be on these drugs. The answer is "dunno" right now, but if any of you guys are on an ACE inhibitor and can switch to an alternative, you might consider it.
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Smith1776
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by Smith1776 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:00 am
WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:45 am
I was reading some info about the coronavirus, to catch up on the latest. My sister (the ER doc) is reading too, and she says she thinks the virus was somehow engineered (and she's otherwise strongly inclined to be politically liberal). It's too perfect. The affinity for ACE receptors is unprecedented, and the key proteins on the coat are unusually good at invading human cells. It's also disturbing how many young people are showing up with severe cases. She told me about a family with COVID, where the parents are doing ok but the previously-healthy 17 year old son is on a vent and she thinks he won't survive. She said he went from a normal chest xray to severe, widespread ARDS in just 12 hours. Like those cases in the Washington nursing home.
So the key question of late has been: if you're on an ACE inhibitor should you stop it? Some of the risk factors for high mortality - hypertension, diabetes - are people likely to be on these drugs. The answer is "dunno" right now, but if any of you guys are on an ACE inhibitor and can switch to an alternative, you might consider it.
WiseOne, I heard from Michael Osterholm on the Joe Rogan podcast that COVID-19 looked to him to be of natural origin. That interview was posted several weeks ago.
Has something changed in terms of our understanding of the virus in the interim that would give us the impression it is engineered? Or is Osterholm simply off base with a different interpretation of the evidence?
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WiseOne
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by WiseOne » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:12 am
There is no hard evidence, it's just observation/speculation at this point. Osterholm was speculating too.
My sister's belief is based on her direct clinical experience with this virus. She's never seen anything like it. She describes it as too new, and too perfect. So suspicion only, but I'm now thinking there is a real possibility. Probably not directly genetically engineered, but a natural process like cross-breeding could have taken place.
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dualstow
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by dualstow » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:14 am
WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:45 am
My sister (the ER doc) is reading too, and she says she thinks the virus was somehow engineered (and she's otherwise strongly inclined to be politically liberal). It's too perfect. The affinity for ACE receptors is unprecedented, and the key proteins on the coat are unusually good at invading human cells. It's also disturbing how many young people are showing up with severe cases.
It sounds a little like the way creationists say a tree or a tiger or an eye is too perfect, therefore it could not have been created by the blind forces of nature. Why can’t it just be unprecedented in its ability to attack and at the same time natural?
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Smith1776
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by Smith1776 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:22 am
WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:12 am
There is no hard evidence, it's just observation/speculation at this point. Osterholm was speculating too.
My sister's belief is based on her direct clinical experience with this virus. She's never seen anything like it. She describes it as too new, and too perfect. So suspicion only, but I'm now thinking there is a real possibility. Probably not directly genetically engineered, but a natural process like cross-breeding could have taken place.
Very interesting. I ask purely out of place of curiosity and wanting to learn more. I'm totally ignorant when it comes to epidemiology and even biology generally. This is almost intentional, as I am very squeamish and actively avoid topics like biology.
Based on how this situation has evolved over these weeks, it's amazing to me how ignorant as group we all tended to be to these risks. Bill Gates tried to warn us years ago, and nobody seemed to really take action.
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Mountaineer
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by Mountaineer » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:26 am
https://medshadow.org/do-ace-inhibitors ... ronavirus/
Re ACE blood pressure medicine: the linked info is a couple weeks old now. Is the consensus leaning now towards harm rather than protect?
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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shekels
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by shekels » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:55 am
WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:12 am
There is no hard evidence, it's just observation/speculation at this point. Osterholm was speculating too.
My sister's belief is based on her direct clinical experience with this virus. She's never seen anything like it. She describes it as too new, and too perfect. So suspicion only, but I'm now thinking there is a real possibility. Probably not directly genetically engineered, but a natural process like cross-breeding could have taken place.
What if Scientist's just test a myriad of virus's and found a bat virus that was lethal.
Technically not engineered right, but still lethal and natural to bats.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ses-near-/
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Maddy
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by Maddy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:41 pm
WiseOne wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:12 am
She's never seen anything like it. She describes it as too new, and too perfect.
And too perfect in relation not only to the failed succession of attempts to unseat the president, but to the upcoming election. Run the probabilities on that!
Oh, and in today's news it's being reported that a number of economies in Africa are on the verge of "complete collapse."
https://apnews.com/c79a173993d39ffe5773449ebaf9b9f8 How convenient for both the U.S. and China, whose game plan on that continent had exactly that goal.
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boglerdude
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by boglerdude » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:22 am
We'll see. And what if we're "strongly encouraged" to vote by mail
"Since 1900, only one president has won re-election with a recession occurring sometime in the last two years of their first term: William McKinley.
Since then, the four presidents who ran for a second term during such an economic downturn—William Taft in 1912, Herber Hoover in 1932, Jimmy Carter in 1980 and George H.W. Bush in 1992—were unsuccessful."
https://www.newsweek.com/heres-all-pres ... ns-1493467
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shekels
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by shekels » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:28 am
boglerdude wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:22 am
We'll see. And what if we're "strongly encouraged" to vote by mail
"Since 1900, only one president has won re-election with a recession occurring sometime in the last two years of their first term: William McKinley.
Since then, the four presidents who ran for a second term during such an economic downturn—William Taft in 1912, Herber Hoover in 1932, Jimmy Carter in 1980 and George H.W. Bush in 1992—were unsuccessful."
https://www.newsweek.com/heres-all-pres ... ns-1493467
Make that 2 presidents.
Of course, that is if the criminals in Washington pass Vote by Mail then We are Toast.
Putin or Xi will be in charge from then on.
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shekels
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by shekels » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:38 am
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Tortoise
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by Tortoise » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:30 pm
Loved George Carlin. Was truly one of the greats.
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shekels
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by shekels » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:14 am
Tortoise wrote: ↑Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:30 pm
Loved George Carlin. Was truly one of the greats.
Yes he was. I go back from time to time just to Listen to him.
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vnatale
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by vnatale » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:13 pm
Why Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories Flourish. And Why It Matters.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/worl ... ories.html
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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dualstow
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by dualstow » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:22 am
There's a piece in the Week entitled
France: The maverick behind the chloroquine craze
It begins,
Didier Raoult has suddenly “become France’s best-known, and most controversial, doctor,” said Peter Conradi in The Times (U.K.). A microbiologist with a talent for self-promotion, Raoult ignited a global run on the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine in March by announcing the coronavirus “endgame” in a YouTube video.
...
and now the
conspiracy:
But this being France, there’s “an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory” or two to explain the sidelining of Raoult, said Damien Leloup and Lucie Soullier in Le Monde. Some online cranks insist his breakthrough is being suppressed because chloroquine is a cheap, established drug, and so Jewish-owned Big Pharma can’t profit from it. Another theory holds that the conspirators are Jews within the French government, namely former Health Minister Agnès Buzyn and her husband, immunologist Yves Lévy. Their dastardly plot involves killing off the elderly to save on pensions. Gilbert Collard, a politician with the far-right National Rally, promoted this theory on YouTube and quickly clocked more than 250,000 views. When people are scared, they want quick answers, and they are “quick to blame” those who advocate caution.
I hate people.
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WiseOne
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by WiseOne » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:41 am
The whole hydroxychloroquine episode is actually nothing new as far as medicine goes. Something comes up that is promising based on lab and some crappy/anecdotal/observational clinical studies, so you do a clinical trial on it - preferably more than one, so that you can show the results are reproducible. The whole reason you do clinical trials is that the early promise doesn't always pan out.
Really good example: The estrogen for menopause story. The early/observational studies all concluded that estrogen reduced rates of heart disease in peri/post menopause. So clinical trials were done - and guess what, it was found that exactly the opposite was the case. Meanwhile, doctors everywhere jumped the gun and put millions of women on estrogen as a heart disease preventative. oops.
This sounds messy but it's how science works. I had read some of the background and thought it unlikely that this drug would prove to be the savior of the epidemic, but I wholeheartedly agreed with running multiple clinical trials to find out. The whole problem here has been the media and personality reporting, which was more about grabbing for sensational headlines and self-promotion. The NY Times could have jumped on any number of luminaries who promoted Plaquenil, e.g. Dr. Oz who definitely should have known better and due to the MD attached to his name, has a lot of influence. Trump at least has the excuse that he doesn't understand how the science is supposed to work, although he should have based his opinions on his advisors (Drs. Fauci and Birx), and limited his enthusiasm to supporting clinical trials and compassionate use in the meantime.
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shekels
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by shekels » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:30 am
I would take it given the Alternative.
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Ad Orientem
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by Ad Orientem » Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:33 am
The whole thing is obviously a Democratic plot to get Trump. I mean there is no limit to what Democrats will do to win an election or try to make a Republican president look bad. Hurricane Katrina... with a Democratic mayor in New Orleans? The stock market crash of 1929 six months after Hoover takes the presidency with a Democratic governor running New York. Coincidence? President Taft's military aide drowns on an unsinkable ship in the middle of his 1912 reelection campaign... Coincidence?
I think not.