A good analysis of the rioting

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WiseOne
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by WiseOne » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:19 pm

Bad news on the damage from riots - here's a rather informative article from across the pond:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ears-come/

TL/DR: past riots damaged primarily the minority neighborhoods most involved in the rioting, and the damage was long-lasting, up to 10 years. Furthermore, the cities suffered a sizeable loss of income as a result of the depressed economic activity.

The riots we've just seen have been far more severe: more cities involved and for a longer period of time. It sounds like the economic consequences could truly be catastrophic - especially when piled on top of the damage from the COVID lockdowns.

Too bad this isn't considered newsworthy. Sounds to me like there will be a lot of after the fact opinion pieces on how the cities involved made a major, possibly fatal mistake by not getting the National Guard in there quickly to stop the rioting.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:24 pm

Words matter...it's the only means we have to communicate short of bashing each other over the head. Did trump walk out onto fifth avenue and shoot someone? No.....but does the fact that he said he could and not lose a single voter have some kind of effect on our political culture...I believe it does.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:30 pm

Yes the rioting is awful and should be stopped. The problem is Trump however...and I'm not sure why you can't see that. His complete lack of leadership ability is making this situation 10 times worse. I should add that Democrats should absolutely be calling for an end to the looting and rioting as well. The key is how to deliver that message...

Jesus, is it that difficult for people to understand the importance of tact and descalation? Think about how hostage negotiators act...that is based on human psychology and trying to assure the best outcome...you don't just start yelling obscenities and insulting the hostage taker even though it might be justified. Why is this practical reality so hard for conservatives to understand?
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by pp4me » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:33 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:19 pm
Bad news on the damage from riots - here's a rather informative article from across the pond:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ears-come/

TL/DR: past riots damaged primarily the minority neighborhoods most involved in the rioting, and the damage was long-lasting, up to 10 years. Furthermore, the cities suffered a sizeable loss of income as a result of the depressed economic activity.

The riots we've just seen have been far more severe: more cities involved and for a longer period of time. It sounds like the economic consequences could truly be catastrophic - especially when piled on top of the damage from the COVID lockdowns.

Too bad this isn't considered newsworthy. Sounds to me like there will be a lot of after the fact opinion pieces on how the cities involved made a major, possibly fatal mistake by not getting the National Guard in there quickly to stop the rioting.
I was thinking about this sitting on my back porch last night with a little help from my pipe and a beer or two.

First, the economy gets ravaged by the COVID-19 lockdowns with probably more to come and then we have what appears to be an ongoing civil war in the streets of most of our major cities.

Surprisingly the portfolio seems to be weathering it all just fine but OMG what a f***ing mess the world is in right now! Not sure I've ever seen anything quite like it in my lifetime.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:33 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:26 pm
doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:54 pm
pp4me wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:01 pm
doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:33 am
I personally admire the intellectual honesty of Sam Harris in so far as he seems to be a very ardent advocate for the truth. In this regard I have never seen him address an issue from the standpoint of having a personal agenda other than to have conversation based on facts, and when it strays from facts to philosophy to specifically highlight that the conversation has taken this turn. In addition Sam Harris is never one to shy away from difficult conversations that might generate a lot of criticism from the political left and in this specific podcast linked above he frequently highlights the incredible dangers of the politically "woke" left shutting down honest but difficult dialogue regarding the facts. It is this type of mature dialogue that this country needs in order to solve difficult issues. Trump in my view is simply the other side of the coin of the extreme left and equally as damaging to intelligent and honest discourse.

Sam Harris has been a vocal critic of Trump since before the election. I think the reasons behind his worries about Trump are well founded and shared by many other level headed individuals. I'm not really sure why so many American's have trouble seeing the authoritarian, fascist, xenophobic, hate mongering aspects of Trump as a true danger to our nations best interests. I guess people gather different impressions of individuals based on their particular life experiences. I am no fan of Biden and the political left is a grave concern to me. One of my favorite popular lecturers today is Jordan Peterson and so in no way way do I underestimate the dangers coming from the liberal side of the political spectrum. But I view Trump as a character who is literally capable of hurling the planet into another world war. I honestly group him into the same category of human as a Fidel Castro, Benito Mussolini, or Mao Zedong.
I like Jordan Peterson too. I was really sorry to hear about his recent problem with addiction to a drug he was taking for his auto-immune condition. Hope he gets better soon.

Like I said though - lesser of two evils. We are seeing concrete evidence of authoritarianism on the left as we speak with Antifa egging on riots in the streets and people being "canceled" for expressing prohibited opinions. Biden seems to be fine with all of this. I'm hard pressed to find much of anything smacking of the same kind of authoritarianism on the right. If you don't mind my asking, what has Trump actually done, beyond tweeting, that would cause you to equate him with the worse dictators in history?
The actions of the extreme left are scary. Donald Trump is not helping matters in the regard that I believe he is increasing their rise. We need moderation, he is not moderate in any regard. Fighting fire with fire is going to leave everyone burned.

Trump is constrained by a system that doesn't allow him to act on his desires. If given free reign, I have no doubts that dissenters would dissapear, that critical media outlets would be shut down, that freedoms would be curtailed. Donald Trump is a quintessential example of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, look how outraged and bent out of shape he gets when anyone confronts him or calls out his bullshit. That is insane behavior for a man in his position and is indicative of some sort of mental disorder. Think of great leaders like Marcus Aurelius and then compare him to Trump...he is a lunatic.

As far as the hate mongering he is a bully. He calls people losers, lame, clowns, and insults their physical attributes. His attack on John McCain as well regarding his capture during Vietnam war was tasteless at best given Trump's lack of any service to any cause other than his own. While that might be ok for reality TV, it is not becoming of a president. I don't want a president who behaves like he is a WWF wrestler.

Authoritarianism...because of his narcisstic personality disorder Trump doesn't deal with dissenting opinions very well. He frequently calls for people's arrest, or makes false accusations of them. He attacks whistleblowers or anyone investigating his actions...if not constrained by our system I have no doubts he would behave like any other strongman dictator.

Fascism in the sense that it is a far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy. I definitely see these characteristics and beliefs emanating from his actions and speech.

Xenophobia....a compilation of derogatory or incendiary quotes about foreign countries, religions, cultures....is he so dumb as to come out and say....Muslims are all terrorist camel jockeys that should be bombed out of existence...no. But are there hundreds of tweets that dance around that border with regards to comments about shit hole countries, or Mexican rapists and murderers, or go back to where you came from....the problem is in the completely ignorant way that he addresses these topics...like he is a guest on the Jerry Springer show. Again, Sam Harris in his podcast highlighted the uncomfortable crime statistics and discussed the intricacies of them in a sensitive manner. Delivery and tact matter when conveying information on sensitive subjects..Trump is completely inept in this regard and yes it is unnaccptable for a president to be an Inept communicator. So is Trump a racist xenophobe....possibly...but his tweets certainly don't create a platform from which friendly dialogue and relations among cultures and races can emerge...they are combative and incendiary and stoke fires among peoples.
So if I understand your argument, you acknowledge that he hasn't actually done anything, but that he might do something if he could? That's a pretty weak, lame argument IMHO. Can you read his mind?
I believe there is ample evidence for obstruction of Justice. I think that many people that he surrounded himself with have been convicted and locked up. I think there is plenty of evidence of nepotism and cronyism and shady dealings. I think there has been a lot of incendiary and damaging language used that has set back constructive dialogue in this country.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by stuper1 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:36 pm

I find it funny when people say that he's a poor communicator. The guy got himself elected despite being opposed by the entire media and political establishment. He must know how to communicate at least a little bit. Obviously you don't like his style of communication, but some people do, in fact 46% of the voting public did in 2016. If he were to take your course in communication, do you think he would have been elected? Somehow I doubt it.

I like the podcast "Real Talk with Zuby". Highly recommended. I learned about it from someone on this forum. Can't remember who. Zuby is a British guy (black if that matters). He's not really into politics, more into culture. He doesn't love Trump, but he doesn't hate him either. He makes the point that Trump has been famous for like 40 years, but nobody hated him or thought he was a unique menace to society until 2016. There was never a suggestion that Trump was racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, or anything other than a bit of a womanizer. Then once he gets involved in politics against the establishment, all of a sudden he's public enemy number one because the media says so.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by dualstow » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:39 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:42 am

I'm guessing WRT in this context is the first one listed below? And LA is Los Angeles, not Lower Alabama? ;D
Vinny, would you kindly give Mountaineer his account back O0
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by stuper1 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:45 pm

doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:30 pm
Yes the rioting is awful and should be stopped. The problem is Trump however...and I'm not sure why you can't see that. His complete lack of leadership ability is making this situation 10 times worse. I should add that Democrats should absolutely be calling for an end to the looting and rioting as well. The key is how to deliver that message...

Jesus, is it that difficult for people to understand the importance of tact and descalation? Think about how hostage negotiators act...that is based on human psychology and trying to assure the best outcome...you don't just start yelling obscenities and insulting the hostage taker even though it might be justified. Why is this practical reality so hard for conservatives to understand?
Uh, no, the problem is not Trump. I can't understand why you don't see that. The problem may be bad policing, conniving media, bad culture, etc. None of those things are Trump's fault. If he comes out and says some smooth words to paper over the situation and fold to idiots, that won't help anything.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:54 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:36 pm
I find it funny when people say that he's a poor communicator. The guy got himself elected despite being opposed by the entire media and political establishment. He must know how to communicate at least a little bit. Obviously you don't like his style of communication, but some people do, in fact 46% of the voting public did in 2016. If he were to take your course in communication, do you think he would have been elected? Somehow I doubt it.

I like the podcast "Real Talk with Zuby". Highly recommended. I learned about it from someone on this forum. Can't remember who. Zuby is a British guy (black if that matters). He's not really into politics, more into culture. He doesn't love Trump, but he doesn't hate him either. He makes the point that Trump has been famous for like 40 years, but nobody hated him or thought he was a unique menace to society until 2016. There was never a suggestion that Trump was racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, or anything other than a bit of a womanizer. Then once he gets involved in politics against the establishment, all of a sudden he's public enemy number one because the media says so.
As Carlin said, think how dumb the average person is...now imagine that half the population is even dumber than that.

Lots of populations elect inept leaders...that doesn't mean they aren't bad leaders.

There were plenty of suggestions Trump was a racist, anti semitic homophobe before his election.

Many democratic leaders are completely obnoxious...in many ways even more obnoxious than Trump. But they haven't been elected president and so are spared from fufilling the unique requirements that office demands.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by stuper1 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:57 pm

So, Trump is anti-Semitic? And yet his daughter and son-in-law, some of his closest advisers, are Jewish. How does that work? This is just another example of fake news from the media.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:58 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:45 pm
doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:30 pm
Yes the rioting is awful and should be stopped. The problem is Trump however...and I'm not sure why you can't see that. His complete lack of leadership ability is making this situation 10 times worse. I should add that Democrats should absolutely be calling for an end to the looting and rioting as well. The key is how to deliver that message...

Jesus, is it that difficult for people to understand the importance of tact and descalation? Think about how hostage negotiators act...that is based on human psychology and trying to assure the best outcome...you don't just start yelling obscenities and insulting the hostage taker even though it might be justified. Why is this practical reality so hard for conservatives to understand?
Uh, no, the problem is not Trump. I can't understand why you don't see that. The problem may be bad policing, conniving media, bad culture, etc. None of those things are Trump's fault. If he comes out and says some smooth words to paper over the situation and fold to idiots, that won't help anything.
Does Trump ever have fault? Apparently he is perfect...at least in his own eyes. Yep all of those contribute for sure...but Trump is making matters worse. Our ship is sinking and the captain is sitting at the helm tweeting shit about how the engineers were incompetent.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:08 pm

Let me continue this debate in the style of Trump...

You all are a bunch of washed up losers who haven't accomplished anything in your miserable lives. There probably isn't anyone who knows more about antisemitism and racism than I do. In my great and unmatched wisdom I declare Donald Trump is the most pathetic excuse for a president we have ever had. So why don't you just shut up and go back whatever shit hole place you came from. After all, there has probably never been any forum participant as incredibly intelligent as I am. I have huge intelligence...probably one of the highest IQs ever.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by Smith1776 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:27 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:39 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:42 am

I'm guessing WRT in this context is the first one listed below? And LA is Los Angeles, not Lower Alabama? ;D
Vinny, would you kindly give Mountaineer his account back O0
That one time he accidentally attributed a mathjak quote to MediumTex regarding "giving up on the pp" practically gave me a heart attack. :o
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by stuper1 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:36 pm

doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:08 pm
Let me continue this debate in the style of Trump...

You all are a bunch of washed up losers who haven't accomplished anything in your miserable lives. There probably isn't anyone who knows more about antisemitism and racism than I do. In my great and unmatched wisdom I declare Donald Trump is the most pathetic excuse for a president we have ever had. So why don't you just shut up and go back whatever shit hole place you came from. After all, there has probably never been any forum participant as incredibly intelligent as I am. I have huge intelligence...probably one of the highest IQs ever.
You win. I'm convinced.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by stuper1 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:57 pm

Simonjester wrote:
doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:54 pm
There were plenty of suggestions Trump was a racist, anti semitic homophobe before his election.
was he that before he broke the no Jews no blacks no gays tradition/rule at Florida country clubs or after?
Don't let facts get in the way of the "truth".
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by vnatale » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:20 pm

doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:08 pm
Let me continue this debate in the style of Trump...

You all are a bunch of washed up losers who haven't accomplished anything in your miserable lives. There probably isn't anyone who knows more about antisemitism and racism than I do. In my great and unmatched wisdom I declare Donald Trump is the most pathetic excuse for a president we have ever had. So why don't you just shut up and go back whatever shit hole place you came from. After all, there has probably never been any forum participant as incredibly intelligent as I am. I have huge intelligence...probably one of the highest IQs ever.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:03 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:19 pm
Bad news on the damage from riots - here's a rather informative article from across the pond:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ears-come/

TL/DR: past riots damaged primarily the minority neighborhoods most involved in the rioting, and the damage was long-lasting, up to 10 years. Furthermore, the cities suffered a sizeable loss of income as a result of the depressed economic activity.

The riots we've just seen have been far more severe: more cities involved and for a longer period of time. It sounds like the economic consequences could truly be catastrophic - especially when piled on top of the damage from the COVID lockdowns.

Too bad this isn't considered newsworthy. Sounds to me like there will be a lot of after the fact opinion pieces on how the cities involved made a major, possibly fatal mistake by not getting the National Guard in there quickly to stop the rioting.
The explanation for this is simple: These "news organizations" aren't interested in reporting news.
They are interested solely in promoting the Democrat agenda.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by pp4me » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:16 am

Meanwhile back to the rioting....

While everyone is paying attention to the presidential election what I'm wondering is if local voters are going to go to the polls and vote to take their cities back from the thugs who are tearing them down.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by Hal » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:31 pm

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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by dualstow » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:03 am

Hal wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:31 pm
...
and speaking of BS, from Australia
https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-spor ... 5f4d9fff48
When they’re done with chess pieces they’re going to find something wrong with pianos.
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:41 am

dualstow wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:03 am
Hal wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:31 pm
...
and speaking of BS, from Australia
https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-spor ... 5f4d9fff48
When they’re done with chess pieces they’re going to find something wrong with pianos.
You mean like this? https://youtu.be/0h2jZtuRuic
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by Tortoise » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:17 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:41 am
dualstow wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:03 am
When they’re done with chess pieces they’re going to find something wrong with pianos.
You mean like this? https://youtu.be/0h2jZtuRuic
Or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdFk35yT0ac
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by dualstow » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:01 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:41 am
dualstow wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:03 am
Hal wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:31 pm
...
and speaking of BS, from Australia
https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-spor ... 5f4d9fff48
When they’re done with chess pieces they’re going to find something wrong with pianos.
You mean like this? https://youtu.be/0h2jZtuRuic
Uh-oh, the Eskimo Pies! O0
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Re: A good analysis of the rioting

Post by dualstow » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:04 am

Tortoise wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:17 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:41 am
dualstow wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:03 am
When they’re done with chess pieces they’re going to find something wrong with pianos.
You mean like this? https://youtu.be/0h2jZtuRuic
Or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdFk35yT0ac
😂 Well, no.
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