Figuring Out Religion

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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:17 pm

I am truly sad that so many people have had bad experiences with Christianity and the “do gooders” who have witnessed to you in person or over the air waves in ways that are probably not God pleasing and/or faithful to Jesus. I’m sad that so many people have reduced Jesus to yet just another moral code, do this, don’t do that - all Law and no saving Gospel (good news).

The main points of Christianity are described in Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” And John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
‭‭
Some of you might have interest in this short book (70 pages):
Objections Overruled II, Answering Arguments Against Christianity by Jeff Schwarz, 2022
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Kbg » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:14 pm

I like Matthew 7:15 to the end of the chapter and I also like Matthew 25:1 to the end of the chapter.

A good guide for making judgements about people in the first and what God expects of us in the second.

I hope people cut me some slack when I fall short of the standard and I do my best to extend the same when others fall short (when trying).
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:33 pm

Desert wrote:
Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:47 am
It's a good thing the future of Christianity doesn't depend on the current American, right-wing version.
Has American Christianity Failed? was published several months before the 2016 election, so it isn't specifically about selling out for Trump, but does call the church to go back to doing what it's supposed to be doing.
American Christianity teaches the centrality of the individual—my will, my experiences, my decision, my heart, my work, and my dedication. Yet we couldn’t be more unaware that Christ and His saving and comforting work are being lost. Our minds and hearts are captivated in some way by those who often preach the Christian instead of Christ.

Wolfmueller sounds the alarm against the false teaching and dangerous practices of Christianity in America. He offers a beautiful alternative: the sweet savor of the Gospel, which brings us to the real comfort, joy, peace, freedom, and sure hope of Christ.

And it’s for you.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Christi ... 075864941X
https://www.cph.org/p-29630-has-america ... ailed.aspx
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Kbg » Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:15 pm

Putting on my secular hat, religious groups are also entitled to express policy views and participate in the political process. People of religious belief can run for office, or support those who run for office, and if supported by a majority of the electorate, implement policy and law in accordance with their preferences. Every group has this basic political freedom in the U.S. and the fact their policy preferences collide with other groups' policy preferences is completely 100% OK.

This folks is why we have a democratic process. The only way opposing viewpoints are harmonized is by compromise of opposing views or conversion to a majority view.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Kbg » Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:31 pm

D,

What's the failure point in your view? Just clarifying if you are talking institutional failures or failure to deeply embed the faith's teachings?

With some of the scandals seems both, but which is the chicken and which is the egg???

On what...I think the kick off was the Roe v. Wade/abortion decision.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by vnatale » Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:33 pm

Desert wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:40 am

Kbg,

I'm thinking of both. But yes, failure on the part of individuals to understand and practice the faith, which then leads to major institutions like the SBC (largest Evangelical denomination) to widely support views that are "conservative," but not Christian.

This has been in the works for decades (some would say much longer). Falwell Sr. was one of the leaders advocating using political power to battle secularization. That sort of thinking led to a whole host of problems. When Christian individuals and organizations attempt to blend their faith with political machinery, it seems that it ends up looking mostly like politics and little like faith.

Gun rights is a decent example. Gun rights is one of the religious tenants of the GOP, but shouldn't concern a Christian much, if at all. I can understand the secular defense of gun rights just fine, but it's hard to imagine Jesus or Paul advocating for such things. It's just not on the radar of Christian thought. So then when Roe v. Wade is overturned, and it comes at the hands of a party advocating strongly against the sorts of things that could either limit unwanted pregnancies (education and birth control) or care for the children once born, it just looks like authoritarianism dressed up with a bit of cultural christianity. In other words, the pro life crowd has largely given up on showing any true moral leadership, and it just looks like government control, not life saving.

When you go back 50 years, abortion wasn't a big issue for white evangelicals. They were focused primarily on opposing civil rights legislation. Abortion seemed to take its place as the main political goal after that. I'm not suggesting it was a conscious pivot, but it did appear to be that to many.

Going back to a point you made in another thread Kbg, true societal change happens when people are convinced, not merely via legislation. And abortion is too important of an issue to be driven solely by the religious right.


Well stated!
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by joypog » Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:35 pm

Desert wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:40 am
This has been in the works for decades (some would say much longer). Falwell Sr. was one of the leaders advocating using political power to battle secularization. That sort of thinking led to a whole host of problems. When Christian individuals and organizations attempt to blend their faith with political machinery, it seems that it ends up looking mostly like politics and little like faith.
Interesting. I was just listening to an episode of the Church Politics Podcast chatting about David French's recent sunday essay on the "God divide". The two black hosts pointed out that the Progressive Movement has coopted black christian politicians to be mum on on certain issues, much as Nationalism has captured much of white Evangelicals.

It was an interesting flip in the course of the conversation, but makes perfect sense.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Kbg » Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:43 pm

Appreciate the posts that are going. Let me take a quote and swap out some words.

When secular individuals and organizations attempt to blend their beliefs with political machinery, it seems that it ends up looking mostly like politics and like they are forcing their beliefs on others.

Putting the negative impact on religious organizations who get "dirty in politics aside" for a moment, I think if you substituted pretty much any other interest group name into the place where Christian or church was, prima facie it would be considered an outrageous statement...but yet it's completely cool to stick religion in there. Why?

On abortion...but it was OK to have it driven by the left in the 60s-80s? Why, what was intrinsically better when the left was driving it?

The simple (and accurate) answer is different opinion and belief systems, nothing more than that.

I've often wondered what the Democratic Party would be like (and the R party for that matter) if their platforms were "party members will vote their personal conscience and the party will take no political position on matters of religion, sexuality, marriage and reproduction." I think it would completely scramble our politics and probably make general elections competitive again.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by D1984 » Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:31 pm

Kbg wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:43 pm
Appreciate the posts that are going. Let me take a quote and swap out some words.

When secular individuals and organizations attempt to blend their beliefs with political machinery, it seems that it ends up looking mostly like politics and like they are forcing their beliefs on others.

Putting the negative impact on religious organizations who get "dirty in politics aside" for a moment, I think if you substituted pretty much any other interest group name into the place where Christian or church was, prima facie it would be considered an outrageous statement...but yet it's completely cool to stick religion in there. Why?
Probably because we are supposed to have separation of church and state and have government based on secular constitutional law, not on any particular religion (or any particular religiously derived belief).

Also, pretty much everyone in the US who is for legalized abortion--and/or for that matter, virtually anyone who is against forced school prayer, or against taxpayer-funded purely religious displays (vs historically-oriented ones) of, say, the Ten Commandments--aren't in favor of FORCING everyone to have an abortion, or to be atheist, or not be allowed to pray on their own in school as their conscience dictates, or to use taxpayer dollars to subsidize atheism, etc. Plenty of hard core evangelicals (and some Catholics as well) are in favor of using government force to coerce people to do the reverse. If religion wants to avoid being singled out then perhaps certain religious people should quit trying to force laws on others based on their interpretation of Christianty (or any other religion for that matter).

Same things with many of the Muslims over in Europe (from what I can see we don't really have enough of them here to have a critical mass to try something like that in the US); they complain about "discrimination against Islam" or "anti-Muslim hate" or "Islamophobia" or "hate speech" or whine about how Muslims are being oppressed.....not because of any real actual oppression of Muslims or people who believe everything in the Quran is true, but because some (non-Muslim) people have the temerity to dare criticize Islam/Mohammed/Islamic beliefs/etc! Just because one is not allowed force one's religion on others (or force actions/laws based on religion, and/or force them not to criticize one's religion) doesn't make one oppressed....this should go without saying! Having your faith be criticized is NOT "anti-religious discrimination" and not having laws centered around one's own religious beliefs does not mean one is being oppressed/persecuted/discriminated against.

I've often wondered what the Democratic Party would be like (and the R party for that matter) if their platforms were "party members will vote their personal conscience and the party will take no political position on matters of religion, sexuality, marriage and reproduction." I think it would completely scramble our politics and probably make general elections competitive again.
Assuming you still had political parties and still had primaries then nothing much would really change. In all but the bluest states GOP voters would still tend to prefer candidates who were against legalized abortion and Dem voters in all but the reddest states would tend to prefer candidates who were in favor of legalized abortion (virtually the same goes for either party for issues like marriage, sexuality, guns, etc). The "different than my party on this one issue" guy/gal wouldn't likely make it past the primary.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:33 am

This is a good refresher on what our collective beliefs were almost 250 years ago: https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/ ... transcript

Tragic indeed that so many have replaced "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" with "I hold my, and only my, self-focused always changing truths to be self-evident".
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by vnatale » Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:19 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:33 am

This is a good refresher on what our collective beliefs were almost 250 years ago: https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/ ... transcript

Tragic indeed that so many have replaced "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" with "I hold my, and only my, self-focused always changing truths to be self-evident".


That was what was said in words. But the reality was that they did not apply to women, children and blacks. It really only applied to white men and even in those cases, the more well to do white men.

For women, children and blacks life has improved immeasurably in the intervening 250 years.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:36 am

D1984 wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:31 pm
Probably because we are supposed to have separation of church and state and have government based on secular constitutional law, not on any particular religion (or any particular religiously derived belief).
ANY law is an expression of collective morality, which is based on a religiously-derived belief. Maybe it isn't a "religion" in the traditional sense but it certainly comes from people's ideas of what's right and what's wrong. You can't separate that from religion.

D1984 wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:31 pm
Also, pretty much everyone in the US who is for legalized abortion--and/or for that matter, virtually anyone who is against forced school prayer, or against taxpayer-funded purely religious displays (vs historically-oriented ones) of, say, the Ten Commandments--aren't in favor of FORCING everyone to have an abortion, or to be atheist, or not be allowed to pray on their own in school as their conscience dictates, or to use taxpayer dollars to subsidize atheism, etc. Plenty of hard core evangelicals (and some Catholics as well) are in favor of using government force to coerce people to do the reverse. If religion wants to avoid being singled out then perhaps certain religious people should quit trying to force laws on others based on their interpretation of Christianty (or any other religion for that matter).
The religion of non-religion (and it absolutely is one) is HUGE on forcing its beliefs on people. Our local school district is a major sponsor of "Pride Month", and all year long walking through the school it's rainbow this and rainbow that everywhere. They're marketing homosexuality to children.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by vnatale » Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:06 am

Xan wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:36 am

D1984 wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:31 pm
Probably because we are supposed to have separation of church and state and have government based on secular constitutional law, not on any particular religion (or any particular religiously derived belief).


ANY law is an expression of collective morality, which is based on a religiously-derived belief. Maybe it isn't a "religion" in the traditional sense but it certainly comes from people's ideas of what's right and what's wrong. You can't separate that from religion.


D1984 wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:31 pm
Also, pretty much everyone in the US who is for legalized abortion--and/or for that matter, virtually anyone who is against forced school prayer, or against taxpayer-funded purely religious displays (vs historically-oriented ones) of, say, the Ten Commandments--aren't in favor of FORCING everyone to have an abortion, or to be atheist, or not be allowed to pray on their own in school as their conscience dictates, or to use taxpayer dollars to subsidize atheism, etc. Plenty of hard core evangelicals (and some Catholics as well) are in favor of using government force to coerce people to do the reverse. If religion wants to avoid being singled out then perhaps certain religious people should quit trying to force laws on others based on their interpretation of Christianty (or any other religion for that matter).


The religion of non-religion (and it absolutely is one) is HUGE on forcing its beliefs on people. Our local school district is a major sponsor of "Pride Month", and all year long walking through the school it's rainbow this and rainbow that everywhere. They're marketing homosexuality to children.


Are they "marketing" it or teaching kids to be accepting / tolerant?

It's only a tiny percentage of the population that is born with homosexual tendencies and, probably, a not small percentage of them wish that they did not have those tendencies.

Are there many non-homesexuals who wish that they had the tendencies? I don't think so. Who would want to be born into a distinct tiny minority lifestyle and all the negatives that that brings to you.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Xan » Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:30 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:06 am
Are they "marketing" it or teaching kids to be accepting / tolerant?

It's only a tiny percentage of the population that is born with homosexual tendencies and, probably, a not small percentage of them wish that they did not have those tendencies.

Are there many non-homesexuals who wish that they had the tendencies? I don't think so. Who would want to be born into a distinct tiny minority lifestyle and all the negatives that that brings to you.

Vinny, the numbers in my head used to be like yours: around 1% of people would be in this situation, and it had to be something they really wanted.

But look at this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... gbt-gen-z/
21% of people born between 1997 and 2003 identify as "LGBTQ". TWENTY-ONE PERCENT!

Why the big generational difference? The marketing has been successful.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by flyingpylon » Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:34 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:06 am
Xan wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:36 am
The religion of non-religion (and it absolutely is one) is HUGE on forcing its beliefs on people. Our local school district is a major sponsor of "Pride Month", and all year long walking through the school it's rainbow this and rainbow that everywhere. They're marketing homosexuality to children.
Are they "marketing" it or teaching kids to be accepting / tolerant?

It's only a tiny percentage of the population that is born with homosexual tendencies and, probably, a not small percentage of them wish that they did not have those tendencies.

Are there many non-homesexuals who wish that they had the tendencies? I don't think so. Who would want to be born into a distinct tiny minority lifestyle and all the negatives that that brings to you.
They are absolutely marketing it. Kids are very vulnerable because they are on a continual quest to figure out who they are and where they fit in. Once many of them discover that they are not in the "popular kids" group, they question themselves and look for alternatives. The primary "alt" group right now is LGBTQ+ and they put a ton of pressure on kids to label themselves and form their identity around sexual preferences they are far too immature to fully understand. For the ones that are not already "born that way" (a relatively small % of the population), it's not so much that they want to be homosexuals (or whatever), it's that they want acceptance and some of these groups are leading them astray.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by vnatale » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:02 am

Xan wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:30 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:06 am
Are they "marketing" it or teaching kids to be accepting / tolerant?

It's only a tiny percentage of the population that is born with homosexual tendencies and, probably, a not small percentage of them wish that they did not have those tendencies.

Are there many non-homesexuals who wish that they had the tendencies? I don't think so. Who would want to be born into a distinct tiny minority lifestyle and all the negatives that that brings to you.



Vinny, the numbers in my head used to be like yours: around 1% of people would be in this situation, and it had to be something they really wanted.

But look at this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... gbt-gen-z/
21% of people born between 1997 and 2003 identify as "LGBTQ". TWENTY-ONE PERCENT!

Why the big generational difference? The marketing has been successful.


That is an astounding number. But we will have to see how many of them identify that way for the long-term. Or, if they later say something similar to those people who say, "I used to be a Democrat but now I'm a Republican." They might be saying / identifying without a firm, deep, unchanging conviction.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:37 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:02 am
Xan wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:30 am
vnatale wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:06 am
Are they "marketing" it or teaching kids to be accepting / tolerant?

It's only a tiny percentage of the population that is born with homosexual tendencies and, probably, a not small percentage of them wish that they did not have those tendencies.

Are there many non-homesexuals who wish that they had the tendencies? I don't think so. Who would want to be born into a distinct tiny minority lifestyle and all the negatives that that brings to you.

Vinny, the numbers in my head used to be like yours: around 1% of people would be in this situation, and it had to be something they really wanted.

But look at this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... gbt-gen-z/
21% of people born between 1997 and 2003 identify as "LGBTQ". TWENTY-ONE PERCENT!

Why the big generational difference? The marketing has been successful.
That is an astounding number. But we will have to see how many of them identify that way for the long-term. Or, if they later say something similar to those people who say, "I used to be a Democrat but now I'm a Republican." They might be saying / identifying without a firm, deep, unchanging conviction.
Vinny, I noticed the words probably, will have to see, and might In your posts. Sounds a bit like we will have to pass that bill to know what is in it! There will be much water and a lot of crap passed under the bridge by then that won’t flow back up hill with countless lives ruined (check the suicide rates of homosexuals vs straights and check out how monkeypox is primarily contracted). Sewage runs down hill and stinks mightily along the way. Be careful about what you assume, and remember what assume stands for. ;)

Non-religious teens are five times more likely to commit suicide than religious teens. That's a stunning, undeniable witness to the value of religion in human care. And the suicide rate is rising. Is there a correlation among percentage of people identifying as LGBTQ+ increasing, percentage of people identifying as Christians decreasing, and civil unrest increasing? Is there a cosmic unseen battle between good and evil ramping up?
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Jack Jones » Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:31 pm

Desert wrote:
Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:40 am
When Christian individuals and organizations attempt to blend their faith with political machinery, it seems that it ends up looking mostly like politics and little like faith.
Jesus' example was to be in the world, but not of the world, right?. E.g. he lived during Roman times, but didn't concern himself w/ the matters of the Roman Empire.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by vnatale » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:37 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:37 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:02 am

Xan wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:30 am

vnatale wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:06 am
Are they "marketing" it or teaching kids to be accepting / tolerant?

It's only a tiny percentage of the population that is born with homosexual tendencies and, probably, a not small percentage of them wish that they did not have those tendencies.

Are there many non-homesexuals who wish that they had the tendencies? I don't think so. Who would want to be born into a distinct tiny minority lifestyle and all the negatives that that brings to you.



Vinny, the numbers in my head used to be like yours: around 1% of people would be in this situation, and it had to be something they really wanted.

But look at this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... gbt-gen-z/
21% of people born between 1997 and 2003 identify as "LGBTQ". TWENTY-ONE PERCENT!

Why the big generational difference? The marketing has been successful.


That is an astounding number. But we will have to see how many of them identify that way for the long-term. Or, if they later say something similar to those people who say, "I used to be a Democrat but now I'm a Republican." They might be saying / identifying without a firm, deep, unchanging conviction.


Vinny, I noticed the words probably, will have to see, and might In your posts. Sounds a bit like we will have to pass that bill to know what is in it! There will be much water and a lot of crap passed under the bridge by then that won’t flow back up hill with countless lives ruined (check the suicide rates of homosexuals vs straights and check out how monkeypox is primarily contracted). Sewage runs down hill and stinks mightily along the way. Be careful about what you assume, and remember what assume stands for. ;)

Non-religious teens are five times more likely to commit suicide than religious teens. That's a stunning, undeniable witness to the value of religion in human care. And the suicide rate is rising. Is there a correlation among percentage of people identifying as LGBTQ+ increasing, percentage of people identifying as Christians decreasing, and civil unrest increasing? Is there a cosmic unseen battle between good and evil ramping up?


Referring to the dates Xan excerpted above .... 1997 to 2003 .... those people would now be between 19 to 25 years old.

If the lifestyle has been so marketed and accepted by so many in our society give me the list of all the male professional athletes in the four major sports - baseball, football, hockey, basketball - who identify with this lifestyle. Even bring it to the male college level for these sports where there are far more athletes to chose from. In both cases I'm guessing that the percentage would be sub 1.0%.

There are definitely many in those sports who are part of that lifestyle but it is still not popular or acceptable in our current society to be outwardly public about it.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:37 pm

This might curl your toenails. Especially the Elizabeth Warren worldview. God help us. Is life worth anything to these types?

https://overcast.fm/+F1mtom-s
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by joypog » Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:16 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:37 pm
This might curl your toenails. Especially the Elizabeth Warren worldview. God help us. Is life worth anything to these types?

https://overcast.fm/+F1mtom-s
That podcast was a classic case of nut-picking. I could easily respond with the extreme anti-abortion bill drafts that don't provide a carveout for the life of the mother. And let's not pretend that Josh Hawley is above performative jackassery.

I would recommend that we avoid the worst examples of both sides...and when we indulge in consuming self righteous fare, we should avoid dehumanizing our political opponents.
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Kbg » Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:21 pm

I don't know how anyone who has read the New Testament and understands its historical context comes away with the thought that Christ was apolitical.

Sadducees, Pharisees...look those guys up, read every sentence in the NT that has one or both in it. And then there's the moneychangers in the temple. Actual anger and a bit of violence.

I think a more correct interpretation is that you should put God first in your life and that should be your priority. I've never personally taken the teaching to be in the world but not of it to be a call to aesthetic monkism. Personally, I think I'm here to try to be a force for good.

(Even if sometimes I get to be pretty Sponge Bob Cranky Pants on some of the economic threads. :) )

One of the teachings popular in my faith right now is...the only thing we should label someone with is that they are a child of God and loved by Him.

To easy to forget in today's world but whenever I take a breath and say that about someone who is annoying me, making me angry, doing things I completely disagree with, whatever...it recenters and refocuses me on how I should treat and think of them.
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Mountaineer
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:36 am

joypog wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:16 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:37 pm
This might curl your toenails. Especially the Elizabeth Warren worldview. God help us. Is life worth anything to these types?

https://overcast.fm/+F1mtom-s
That podcast was a classic case of nut-picking. I could easily respond with the extreme anti-abortion bill drafts that don't provide a carveout for the life of the mother. And let's not pretend that Josh Hawley is above performative jackassery.

I would recommend that we avoid the worst examples of both sides...and when we indulge in consuming self righteous fare, we should avoid dehumanizing our political opponents.
And we should avoid dehumanizing our unborn children, frequently by the cruelest means imaginable.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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vnatale
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by vnatale » Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:36 am

joypog wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:16 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:37 pm

This might curl your toenails. Especially the Elizabeth Warren worldview. God help us. Is life worth anything to these types?

https://overcast.fm/+F1mtom-s

That podcast was a classic case of nut-picking. I could easily respond with the extreme anti-abortion bill drafts that don't provide a carveout for the life of the mother. And let's not pretend that Josh Hawley is above performative jackassery.

I would recommend that we avoid the worst examples of both sides...and when we indulge in consuming self righteous fare, we should avoid dehumanizing our political opponents.


Excellent admonition!
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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joypog
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Re: Figuring Out Religion

Post by joypog » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:41 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:36 am
joypog wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:16 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:37 pm
This might curl your toenails. Especially the Elizabeth Warren worldview. God help us. Is life worth anything to these types?

https://overcast.fm/+F1mtom-s
That podcast was a classic case of nut-picking. I could easily respond with the extreme anti-abortion bill drafts that don't provide a carveout for the life of the mother. And let's not pretend that Josh Hawley is above performative jackassery.

I would recommend that we avoid the worst examples of both sides...and when we indulge in consuming self righteous fare, we should avoid dehumanizing our political opponents.
And we should avoid dehumanizing our unborn children, frequently by the cruelest means imaginable.
Unitil you figure out how to love Elizabeth Warren, you are as pagan as she is.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
1/n weirdo. US-TSM, US-SCV, Intl-SCV, LTT, STT, GLD (+ a little in MF)
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