Who Killed Kennedy?

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

What's your view of the Kennedy assassination?

The evidence is overwhelming, it was a conspiracy.
4
15%
Lots of questions and loose ends, it might have been a conspiracy.
4
15%
I am unsure.
4
15%
There are some unanswered questions, but the evidence points to Oswald.
10
38%
The evidence is overwhelming, Oswald did it alone.
4
15%
 
Total votes: 26
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:46 am

I figured someone just had to ask the question given the anniversary.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
User avatar
Pointedstick
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 8864
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Pointedstick » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:02 am

How do I know it wasn't you? ;)
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
ns2
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:39 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by ns2 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:03 am

The Kennedy mini-series that is showing on Reelz is pretty good. Might be the last chance to see it if interest dies down after 50 years. Takes you all the way through the assassination of Bobby. I was watching TV when he gave the peace sign and said "on to Chicago" and then I turned it off. I think he was shot about 10 seconds later as I learned the next morning. Lots of conspiracy theories about that one too, including Sirhan Sirhan as a Manchurian candidate. To this day he says he doesn't remember doing it, but the CIA says it's not possible to create a Manchurian candidate. They know because they tried.
Kshartle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3559
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:38 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Kshartle » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:08 am

ns2 wrote: CIA says it's not possible to create a Manchurian candidate. They know because they tried.
So they admit to trying to create involuntary assasins to murder and take all blame (hardly a noble thing) but you believe them when they say they failed?

"Yes we are complete and utter scumbags but trust us, we're not good at it. We would never lie about though ;)"
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:11 am

An ABC News documentary examines the evidence using modern technology that wasn't available in the 1960's.
http://youtu.be/sYmLf749K5U
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:12 am

Pointedstick wrote: How do I know it wasn't you? ;)
I wasn't born. But then again, maybe my birth certificate is an elaborate fake.... hmmm.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9096
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by MediumTex » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:13 am

Although all signs point to Oswald being the lone assassin, the idea of being able to hit a moving target at that range twice in such a short time frame is absolutely amazing.

Kennedy was hit in the neck and a few seconds later in the head as he sat in a moving vehicle (and Kennedy himself was moving around after being hit the first time).

Oswald was just tragically lucky that day.  I'll bet if he tried to make those same two shots 100 times, he wouldn't be able to do it more than a few times.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:21 am

The sniper's nest is open to the public now and there are large X's painted on Elm street showing exactly where the car was when each shot was fired. Some people I know who have been up on the sixth floor tell me it was like shooting fish in a barrel. The wonder is not that Oswald hit Kennedy twice (he was a crack shot), but that one of the three shots missed him.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
ns2
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:39 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by ns2 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:46 am

Kshartle wrote: So they admit to trying to create involuntary assasins to murder and take all blame (hardly a noble thing) but you believe them when they say they failed?
They've done far less noble things than that and no, I don't believe a word they say. Kennedy himself was behind some of those ignoble things and that is well documented.

One of the more interesting pieces of fuel for the conspiracy fires is the deathbed confession of E. Howard Hunt, the convicted Watergate burglar and former CIA agent. He made a recorded deathbed confession to his son, and I think you can hear it on the internet, in which he confessed that it was a CIA hit job.

I'm still not convinced and probably never will be but I've always thought if there was a conspiracy, they were the most likely culprits behind it - not the Russians and not the mob.
Simonjester wrote: one of the best ways to hide a conspiracy, is by starting a series of multiple competing conspiracies, some of which are so ridiculous that when you debunk them, it gives all the competing theories, or the idea of even proposing a theory a black eye..

how many competing theories are there about Kennedy? and how quickly did they emerge? ;)
Kshartle
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3559
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:38 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Kshartle » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:17 am

ns2 wrote:
Kshartle wrote: So they admit to trying to create involuntary assasins to murder and take all blame (hardly a noble thing) but you believe them when they say they failed?
They've done far less noble things than that and no, I don't believe a word they say. Kennedy himself was behind some of those ignoble things and that is well documented.

One of the more interesting pieces of fuel for the conspiracy fires is the deathbed confession of E. Howard Hunt, the convicted Watergate burglar and former CIA agent. He made a recorded deathbed confession to his son, and I think you can hear it on the internet, in which he confessed that it was a CIA hit job.

I'm still not convinced and probably never will be but I've always thought if there was a conspiracy, they were the most likely culprits behind it - not the Russians and not the mob.
Yeah, how could the russians and mob keep the us govt from exposing them? It's obvious it was the US govt. The Oswald theory is silly.
User avatar
Jan Van
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 717
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:42 am
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Jan Van » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:36 am

Nova: Cold Case JFK
Can modern forensic science uncover fresh clues about the assassination of JFK?
Aired November 13, 2013 on PBS
"Well, if you're gonna sin you might as well be original" -- Mike "The Cool-Person"
"Yeah, well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man" -- The Dude
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:39 am

Kshartle wrote:
ns2 wrote:
Kshartle wrote: So they admit to trying to create involuntary assasins to murder and take all blame (hardly a noble thing) but you believe them when they say they failed?
They've done far less noble things than that and no, I don't believe a word they say. Kennedy himself was behind some of those ignoble things and that is well documented.

One of the more interesting pieces of fuel for the conspiracy fires is the deathbed confession of E. Howard Hunt, the convicted Watergate burglar and former CIA agent. He made a recorded deathbed confession to his son, and I think you can hear it on the internet, in which he confessed that it was a CIA hit job.

I'm still not convinced and probably never will be but I've always thought if there was a conspiracy, they were the most likely culprits behind it - not the Russians and not the mob.
Yeah, how could the russians and mob keep the us govt from exposing them? It's obvious it was the US govt. The Oswald theory is silly.
What is your evidence?
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:52 am

User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:14 am

Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy

http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Histor ... f.+kennedy
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:41 am

TennPaGa wrote:
Ad Orientem wrote: I figured someone just had to ask the question given the anniversary.
I seem to recall you writing that you were a Kennedy assassination (conspiracy) buff at one point (but not now).  Is that right?  If so, I'd be interested in your thoughts (both about the facts of the assassination and your own intellectual journey).
A Conspiracy of One (or the confessions of an ex-conspiracy nut)
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14234
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by dualstow » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:15 pm

One thing is clear: a large number of people ripped off Serge Gainsbourg's Histoire de Melody Nelson, although they probably acted independently. Beck has one of the more egregious examples with Paper Tiger (although I do think it sounds fantastic).

As for Kennedy, he was shot by Oswald alone. I have seen the conspiracy theories systematically debunked but, like the case with the moon landing, there will always be those who cannot let go of their suspicions.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
Bean
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 10:30 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Bean » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:26 pm

Did no one here watch Salt? it explains everything!

It was a secret Russia deep cover spy program called MK Ultra run by Oleg Orlov (who is actually based on Dmitry Orlov)
“Let every man divide his money into three parts, and invest a third in land, a third in business and a third let him keep by him in reserve.� ~Talmud
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:29 pm

I'm sure there is a perfectly innocent reason why a lot of the files are still sealed:
http://www.ibtimes.com/jfk-assassinatio ... rs-1389437

Right?
ns2
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:39 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by ns2 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:03 pm

Libertarian666 wrote: I'm sure there is a perfectly innocent reason why a lot of the files are still sealed:
http://www.ibtimes.com/jfk-assassinatio ... rs-1389437

Right?
The CIA lies about having an Oswald file when in fact they did. They lie about knowing of his trip to Mexico City when, in fact, they monitored him the whole time (I think this is fairly well documented now but somebody can correct me if I'm wrong).

Oswald kills Kennedy. Jack Ruby, a man with mafia connections kills Oswald before he can be brought to trial.

I think there are perfectly plausible explanations for things like this, such as the CIA always lies because that's just what they do, and Jack Ruby loved Kennedy and wanted to be a hero for killing Oswald.

But I don't see how, with so many mysteries surrounding it, anyone can be considered nuts for believing there might have been a conspiracy. Even a Congressional committee came to that very same conclusion.

Modification: Actually I think the congressional committee concluded that it was likely there was a conspiracy and that was the last government word on the matter, as far as I know.
Last edited by ns2 on Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Libertarian666
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 5994
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 6:00 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Libertarian666 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:09 pm

ns2 wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: I'm sure there is a perfectly innocent reason why a lot of the files are still sealed:
http://www.ibtimes.com/jfk-assassinatio ... rs-1389437

Right?
The CIA lies about having an Oswald file when in fact they did. They lie about knowing of his trip to Mexico City when, in fact, they monitored him the whole time (I think this is fairly well documented now but somebody can correct me if I'm wrong).

Oswald kills Kennedy. Jack Ruby, a man with mafia connections kills Oswald before he can be brought to trial.

I think there are perfectly plausible explanations for things like this, such as the CIA always lies because that's what they do, and Jack Ruby loved Kennedy and wanted to be a hero for killing Oswald.

But I don't see how, with so many mysteries surrounding it, anyone can be considered nuts for believing there might have been a conspiracy. Even a Congressional committee came to that very same conclusion.
And of course Ruby died of cancerbefore he could spill the beans, which I'm sure was also a coincidence.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14234
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by dualstow » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:54 pm

Techno,

You're employing the old, "I'm not really making a point, but just appearing to make one by way of sarcasm" technique.
Just tell us what you think happened already.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
Reub
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3158
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Reub » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:08 pm

I agree that Jack Ruby tips the scales in favor of a conspiracy. Someone wanted to make sure that Oswald would never talk. If it was Castro, the Soviets, or the Mafia behind the assassination, the government would never want the fact that there was a conspiracy to get out to the general public.
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:12 pm

Unfortunately none of this is evidence. It's conjecture. The actual evidence, and there is a mountain of it, all points to Oswald.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
Reub
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3158
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by Reub » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:31 pm

There is also evidence (obviously) that Oswald was shot to death shortly thereafter. That certainly raises flags with me.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14234
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by dualstow » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:49 pm

Reub wrote: There is also evidence (obviously) that Oswald was shot to death shortly thereafter. That certainly raises flags with me.
Why wasn't he killed immediately after he killed Kennedy?
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
Post Reply