The Permanent Health Diet

[MachineGhost]

Gumby seems MIA, so I'll answer.

1. are sprouted grains any less harmful on the intestinal track from the point of view of this diet? 

No.

Another protein states A proprietary blend of organic plant enzymes are used to separate the fiber and carbohydrates from the protein portion of the organic, whole grain, sprouted brown rice

Besides the fact that plant proteins have a very poor PDCAAS scores.  I remember when experimenting with hemp protein, I wouldn't get warm or satiated after ingestion at all, i.e. no thermogenesis.  And pea protein isolate caused reactions so it was full of anti-nutrients.

2. I presume that:  "organic cranberry protein, raw pea protein, raw organic hemp protein" should be OK from the point of view of this diet?

No.  There is now potato protein isolate available.  Not cheap, but it will certainly not have any anti-nutrients or xenoestrogens like legumes, nuts or seeds.  But, I'd suggest beef protein isolate instead.

[Benko]

Thanks MG.  I ran across 2 references suggesting that beef protein isolate is collagen/mostly collagen, so perhaps I'll start making beef jerky.

[MachineGhost]

Thanks MG.  I ran across 2 references suggesting that beef protein isolate is collagen/mostly collagen, so perhaps I'll start making beef jerky.

It's not collagen per se, but the amino acid composition is essentially the same as bone gelatin or intact collagen since it is derived from stubborn bone meat.  I wouldn't confuse it with being high in BCAA's ala dairy.  Not so good for pre/post-workout but for a MRP, its fine.  And no iron.

For pre/post-workout, I favor hydrolyzed whey (1500 average daltons) since it has enough leucine to stimulate muscle synthesis.  PeptoPro (hydrolyzed casein) is truly non-allergenic, but it is expensive and it is incredibly insulinotropic.  I was getting fat just off 2 teaspoons.  So I put up with the sniffles for 15 mins once a week, but this is nowhere as bad as all the symptoms from non-hydrolyzed whey or casein.

[dualstow]

A quick google search for tapioca at this site turned up the post below. So tapioca is not frowned upon?
I'm glad. I recently discovered some gluten-free bagels made of tapioca starch. They're actually pretty good.
God, I've missed bagels since I started avoiding wheat.

...
Even Jaminet says not to eat a lot of white rice. It's not nutrient dense. It's just an easy source of carbs/glucose. He prefers people eat white rice in moderation and favor the other safe starches (taro, sago, plantains, tapioca) since you get more benefit from them.

Personally, I've never seen taro or sago in a typical food market. Occasionally I see plantains, but I have no idea what to do with them. I find myself eating a lot of sweet potatoes these days, but I think I will get pretty bored of them. And tapioca, I have no idea what to do with that either
...

[Benko]

I'm on Kresser's e-mail list and a link to an article that came today has some very interesting things to say (this is vs paleo in general, I don't think it is aimed particularly at perfect diet):

EVERYTHING BELOW IS KRESSER (bolding mine) including the important point that you're better off not stressing yourself and eating some non-paleo food, than stressing yourself and following it perfectly.

https://iw108.infusionsoft.com/app/link ... 14fc432be3

BASIC AGREEMENT:
"I think the evidence is crystal clear that wheat, sugar/high-fructose corn syrup and industrial seed oils are toxic to the body and contribute to virtually all modern, degenerative diseases – from diabetes and obesity to heart disease and autoimmunity. There’s also substantial evidence that soy, in its processed form (i.e. soy milk, soy protein isolate, etc.) is an endocrine disruptor and anti-nutrient and is best avoided."

SKEPTICISM:  "potatoes...legumes and nightshades. They aren’t Paleo, but I haven’t seen any evidence to convince me that these foods play a significant role in the modern disease epidemic."

DIFFERENT DIETS FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE: Someone who’s dealing with an autoimmune disease, leaky gut, arthritis and skin rashes would certainly benefit from a strict Paleo diet and may even need to follow that approach for the rest of their lives. But for someone that is fundamentally healthy, such a diet may be unnecessarily restrictive. They might do perfectly well eating grains (other than wheat), especially when those grains have been properly prepared by soaking and/or sprouting. Dairy is similar. I have patients that tolerate it well in spite of being quite ill (they’ve removed it for long periods and added it back in without negative effects).

TCM: In Traditional Chinese Medicine, we also consider the effect of season, geographical location, constitution, state of health and lifestyle when making dietary recommendations. So not only is each person different, what works for one person at one time may not work for that same person at another time.

BOTTOM LINE:  I also suggest they follow what I call the 80/20 rule. 80% of the time they should follow the guidelines very closely, and 20% of the time they’re free to loosen up and just eat what they want to eat. There’s a lot more to life than food, and in fact I believe (as did the ancient Chinese) that in some cases it’s better to eat the wrong food with the right attitude than the other way around.

Unfortunately, the 80/20 rule doesn’t apply to those dealing with serious health challenges or allergies or intolerances to specific foods

[Gumby]

I'm on Kresser's e-mail list and a link to an article that came today has some very interesting things to say (this is vs paleo in general, I don't think it is aimed particularly at perfect diet):

Kresser's advice is spot on. But, you are right that it's not aimed at the PHD. Kresser regularly recommends the PHD to his patients.

http://chriskresser.com/the-new-perfect-health-diet

I agree 100% with the 80/20 rule for healthy people.

[MachineGhost]

Composed this percentage of calories from a Q&A Jaminet gave the other month:

Carbs 32%
Safe Starches 20%
Sugars/Fructose 10%
Sol/Insoluble Fiber 1%
Resistant Starch 1%
Protein 15%
Fat 53.00%
Omega-6 Max 4%
Omega-3 Max 1.50%

EDIT: Also a little less carbs and a little more protein in the first meal and make up the missing carbs in the last meal.  Presumed on the last meal being in the evening to help sleep.

[MachineGhost]

[quote=http://www.dur-a-avaler.com/wp-content/ ... 647-53.pdf]Although major research efforts have focused on how specific components of foodstuffs affect health, relatively little is known about a more fundamental aspect of diet, the frequency and circadian timing of meals, and potential benefits of intermittent periods with no or very low energy intakes. The most common eating pattern in modern societies, three meals plus snacks every day, is abnormal from an evolutionary perspective. Emerging findings from studies of animal models and human subjects suggest that intermittent energy restriction periods of as little as 16 h can improve health indicators and counteract disease processes. The mechanisms involve a metabolic shift to fat metabolism and ketone production, and stimulation of adaptive cellular stress responses that prevent and repair molecular damage. As data on the optimal frequency and timing of meals crystalizes, it will be critical to develop strategies to incorporate those eating patterns into health care policy and practice, and the lifestyles of the population.
[/quote]

[MachineGhost]

This is interesting not because of the "high fat", but because it seems bilberry is effective against high Omega-6.  Confirmation would have to be gotten from the scientists, but I'd bet the lard used is not lard as we normally think of it, but the toxic partially/hydrogenated and/or high Omega-6 version that's been used in other animal studies.

[quote=http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0114790]Mice on the high-fat diet experienced significant weight gain and detrimental changes in glucose and lipid metabolism, inflammation factors and blood pressure. Bilberries diminished the pro-inflammatory effects of the high-fat diet, indicated by an altered cytokine profile and a reduced relative prevalence of inflammation supporting T-cells. Bilberries also prevented elevated blood pressure caused by the high-fat diet.  [/quote]

[MachineGhost]

[quote=Sabine Paul of http://palaeo-power.de/]Based  on  these  findings  and  recent  scientific  publications  I  suggest  the following recommendations for a Western Paleo diet: 

Breakfast is unusual for hunter-gatherers. After a first activity in the morning, however, a first meal is eaten. This is in line with the majority of people in Western countries who skip breakfast at least once or several times per week. They  should  have  appropriate  food  with  them  for  a  Paleolithic  snack  about three to four hours after getting up. 

Daily egg consumption from just one species (chicken) is not consistent with a Paleo  diet.  A  greater  variety  can  be  achieved  with  eggs  from  duck,  goose, quail, guinea fowl, amongst others, in the respective seasons. During the rest of  the  year  and  for  preparing  meals  suitable  egg  alternatives  are  banana, pumpkin, flaxseed, carob, etc. 

Seeds and nuts have been widely used in past and current hunter-gatherer diets. This is in line with beneficial effects of the so-called anti-nutrients which were discovered  lately.  Since  seeds  and  nuts  are  valuable  sources  of  fatty  acids, minerals and vitamins, they contribute significantly to a Paleo diet. 

Honey is an important part of the Paleolithic diet. Comb honey provides an authentic indulgence and additional nutritional value due to pollen and larvae. 

Coconut oil, often used in Western Paleo diets, is not typical for African and European  hunter-gatherers.  Appropriate  fat  sources  in  addition  to  regional seeds and nuts are the almost forgotten lard and tallow, two excellent baking and frying fats.[/quote]

[MachineGhost]

This is an attempt at quantification of soluble fiber and resistant starch claims (and to a lesser extent, "low glycemic" food claims). My blood glucose readings after my breakfast smoothie, trying various fiber type and dose combinations:

Code: Select all

Dose    		2Hr Reading	Comments
1t Guar			104		(2T dextrose hereafter)
1t Maize		106
3t Apple		124
2t Maize		105
2t Guar			97		(DAY OFF SUPPLEMENTS)
1t Guar, 1t Maize	104
2t Guar, 1t Maize	119		(No lecithin & 3T dextrose hereafter)
1t Guar, 2t Maize	101
3t Guar			115		(4T dextrose hereafter)
3t Maize		122
4t Maize		118
4t Guar			97
5t Maize		138/144		(DAY OFF SUPPLEMENTS)

I should note all are always paired with 3t of apple fiber (for bulk).  I need to do another day off but with a higher dose Guar.  I also have some potato starch left so I'll throw that in next week just to see.  I may have had some initial transient issues (headaches, blurry vision, excess energy) but it may have mellowed out by titrating the doses.  No gas to report, which is unusual compared to my previous potato starch intake.

Optimally, you do not want your post-prandial glucose to go past 120 to minimize organ damage and fasting blood glucose should be around 80.  Since I'm a low carber, my fasting bood glucose is generally higher than it should be (upper 90's) but that is a fish to fry at another time.

[Reub]

So it seems that the guar is the thing. This coincides with what I've found. When I consume 4 teaspoons of guar before a meal my blood sugar stays below 110, which is exceedingly better than what happens with no guar. I was also getting terrific fasting blood sugar readings in the '80's after beginning my "guar therapy", however these numbers have creeped back up to the 102-105 range, which is still better than the 115-120 range I was getting before guar (b.g.).

MG what brand of guar are you using? Are you using it just once a day? And thanks for the research!

[MachineGhost]

So it seems that the guar is the thing. This coincides with what I've found. When I consume 4 teaspoons of guar before a meal my blood sugar stays below 110, which is exceedingly better than what happens with no guar. I was also getting terrific fasting blood sugar readings in the '80's after beginning my "guar therapy", however these numbers have creeped back up to the 102-105 range, which is still better than the 115-120 range I was getting before guar (b.g.).

MG what brand of guar are you using? Are you using it just once a day? And thanks for the research!

I'm using SunFiber via LuckyVitamin.com.  It seems like I may be becoming intolerant to the guar?  Today, the BG was at 120 about 35 minutes past the 2 hour mark with 5t.  I'm not sure what is going on that suddenly it is so high. 

EDIT: Oh, it looks like I ran out of Chromemate for this week's cups.  I take one with my smoothie.  So that must be the explaining variable.  Very interesting!  200mcg looks good for a 30-40 drop.

I'm just using it with my smoothie so far.  Once I figure out what does what, I'll move onto other meals.

[moda0306]

Any opinions on this...

Now that I've been cutting out regular milk and drinking coconut milk for a while, I noticed something Paul Jaminet mentioned about drinks.  He said, "drink only calorie-free drinks," but then I heard him advocate whole milk and wine on a different occasion.

Certainly, this isn't any reason for me to throw my cards in on the PHD... I think there's far too much good to ignore there... but I just wanted to double check what you guys think about coconut milk as it pertains to the PHD or just paleo.  I don't drink a ton of it... perhaps a cup a day on average.


Also, do you guys use coconut oil?  How coconutty is it?  Seems like it'd get a bit much to do a lot of cooking with coconut flavor.  Are there other good oils you use?


Lastly, my family likes to fondue with canola oil... obviously a No-No!  Are there other good deep frying oil options?


Thanks!

[MachineGhost]

Now that I've been cutting out regular milk and drinking coconut milk for a while, I noticed something Paul Jaminet mentioned about drinks.  He said, "drink only calorie-free drinks," but then I heard him advocate whole milk and wine on a different occasion.

He means that as a treat, because both contain sugar.  So long as your coconut milk/water doesn't contain any sugar, you're good.

Also, do you guys use coconut oil?  How coconutty is it?  Seems like it'd get a bit much to do a lot of cooking with coconut flavor.  Are there other good oils you use?

Virgin is coconuty.  But the refined non-virgin is relatively tasteless, depending on the brand.  The trick though is finding a brand that isn't made from moldy coconuts sitting in a warehouse in the Phillipines for several months before processing.  I recommend Nutiva or Tropical Traditions.

Lastly, my family likes to fondue with canola oil... obviously a No-No!  Are there other good deep frying oil options?

Refined coconut oil, peanut oil, avocado oil, beef tallow, lard.  I wouldn't recommend grass-fed on the latter two.  It's really smelly and offputting.  I'd say peanut oil is your best bet here without causing any drama.

[moda0306]

I'm quite sure peanut oil was a HUGE taboo according to the PHD.

[MachineGhost]

I'm quite sure peanut oil was a HUGE taboo according to the PHD.

Oh yeah, probably because of the aflatoxin.  I didn't know it made it way into refined peanut oil, though.

[MachineGhost]

Well gag me with a pitchfork!

Peanut oil has 10% MORE Omega-6 than canola.  Forget that then.

Oils with less Omega-6 than canola:

Almond
Avocado
Beef Tallow
Butter
Cocoa
Cod
Coconut
Lard
Olive
Palm
Palm Kernal
Shea

So for something mild tasting, I'd go with refined avocado or refined coconut oil.  Refined avocado has the highest smoke point.  Palm Kernal only has 2% Omega-6 but you'd have to figure if you could swing a deep red oil that stains the fondue pieces.  It could or could not be cool for a party situation.  It does have a strong taste, though.

[moda0306]

I think part of it is polyunsaturated ratios too.  Not sure if that affects much.

[sixdollars]

I used to read about health all the time, but I found that evolutionary adaptations played such a huge role in optimizing diets that it was a little overwhelming.  For example, dairy seems to be great source of nutrients for certain people and not others due to certain digestive adaptations (ie. lactase).  Also, most of the studies out there are not high quality and seem to have too many confounding factors to draw accurate conclusions.  This is probably why the mainstream media seems to be constantly switching views on what is good for you and what is bad for you... this is very common in the research arena..

The thing that I've taken to heart at this point is to avoid what are typically called the three neolithic agents of disease (NAD): excess wheat, excess fructose, and excess vegetable oil.  Beyond that, I think the optimal diet is anyone's guess (also, where to draw the line for "excess" is anyone's guess... my guess is to eat a whole foods diet while avoiding the addition of NADs to your diet unless they already come in the form of the whole food... eg fruit is fine in moderation, adding HFCS probably isn't a good idea).. but it seems that these three in excessive amounts can be problematic to the general population.  Beyond this there is too much variability due to genetics, food preparation, etc. to really pinpoint what is "good" or "bad" food.  I think a pretty solid case can be made for avoiding SAD foods and switching to a more whole foods (less processed) diet; however, when you start getting really into it and drawing conclusions like the following - lots of carbs are bad, grains are bad for you, dairy is bad for you - you start hitting really grey territory, where the evidence is not very conclusive..

I think a lot can be said about just avoiding the three neolithic agents of disease and eating a whole foods diet (and not stressing about the way you eat too much - orthorexia seems to be very real for some folks).  If you really like experimenting, you can make your diet very basic and slowly add different foods to see how your body reacts... though this idea sounds good in theory, it sounds like too much work for me to implement myself..

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[MachineGhost]

(also, where to draw the line for "excess" is anyone's guess... my guess is to eat a whole foods diet while avoiding the addition of NADs to your diet unless they already come in the form of the whole food... eg fruit is fine in moderation, adding HFCS probably isn't a good idea)

We have some guidelines via PHD and its interpretation of the research.  No wheat, <=25g day fructose, 4% max calories from Omega-6.  The exact macronutrient breakdown is in this post: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... /#msg97213

[MachineGhost]

Thanks MG.  I ran across 2 references suggesting that beef protein isolate is collagen/mostly collagen, so perhaps I'll start making beef jerky.

It's not collagen per se, but the amino acid composition is essentially the same as bone gelatin or intact collagen since it is derived from stubborn bone meat.  I wouldn't confuse it with being high in BCAA's ala dairy.  Not so good for pre/post-workout but for a MRP, its fine.  And no iron.

For pre/post-workout, I favor hydrolyzed whey (1500 average daltons) since it has enough leucine to stimulate muscle synthesis.  PeptoPro (hydrolyzed casein) is truly non-allergenic, but it is expensive and it is incredibly insulinotropic.  I was getting fat just off 2 teaspoons.  So I put up with the sniffles for 15 mins once a week, but this is nowhere as bad as all the symptoms from non-hydrolyzed whey or casein.

I wanted to update this post. 

Beef protein isolate lacks what may be the two critical amino acids in collagen/gelatin for cartilage regeneration: hydroxyproline and hydroxyleucine.  The body converts proline into hydroxyproline in presence of sufficient Vitamin C; the lack of hydroxyproline is what is truly the cause of scurvy.  I don't know if this conversion is rate limited or there is an advantage to soaking water-processed chicken sternum type II collagen with vitamin C which is what one woman in a wheelchair did to get up and walking again.

Also, because I got sick of the sneezing and congestion, I've changed my pre-workout drink to CytosSport Monster Amino which, among other minor things, contains a whopping 8:1:1 ratio of BCAA and a combined 7g of leucine peptides and as well as regular poorly absorbed L-Leucine (which is the most vile tasting substance known to man, in my book).  It completely covers up any nasty flavor.  It took a lot of research to find this product.  I combine it with 50g of dextrose and 2 cups of water an hour before working out.  http://www.monstermilk.com/products/spe ... ster-amino

For immediately post-workout, I've switched to just using 2 cups of raw skim milk and CreaPure.  I was getting moderate reactive hypoglycemia (fever chills, feeling faint, etc.) with just dextrose and whey/beef protein in water and minor symptoms with raw milk instead of water (to bring it up to 50g carb/25g protein), so I decided to just junk both and eat more of my homemade GF pizza within the 3 hour post-workout window.

Lastly, I'm going to try a 80% sprouted brown rice protein isolate in my GF pizza crust to replace the oxidized-cholesterol milk powder (eek!).  80% must be a new record for vegetable protein powders.  It's very soft and fluffy.  Both Swanson and Jarrow sell it.

[Benko]

Interesting about guar gum.  I have a bunch of bottles of now brand guar gum caps and was tinkering with taking A bunch of caps of the stuff only before my oatmeal b'fast to decrease post prandial glucose.  I never did any blood sugars.

How many grams per tbsp of guar gum?  How bad is the stuff mixed in water?

[Reub]

I'm using a partially hydrolyzed guar gum called Clearfiber which has Sunfiber as its active ingredient . It has 3 grams of soluble fiber per tablespoon and I take 2 tablespoons before a meal. So 6 grams of soluble fiber. I'm not really sure if regular guar will work the same way. I'd take it with a good amount of water.

[MachineGhost]

I'm using a partially hydrolyzed guar gum called Clearfiber which has Sunfiber as its active ingredient . It has 3 grams of soluble fiber per tablespoon and I take 2 tablespoons before a meal. So 6 grams of soluble fiber. I'm not really sure if regular guar will work the same way. I'd take it with a good amount of water.

I should have been clearer I'm taking PHGG (and Hi-Maize Resistant Starch) not regular.  Regular is just an absorbled fiber; PHGG is not.