Gyroscopic Investing

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:28 am Perhaps one of the root issues here is that our US society has evolved to a point where whether something is legal or not is our sole litmus test for whether something is right or wrong.

Yes yes yes.

glennds wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:28 am Perhaps one of the root issues here is that our US society has evolved to a point where whether something is legal or not is our sole litmus test for whether something is right or wrong.
I am not convinced that such was the case at the time the Constitution was framed.

Good point, especially considering how laws are made and the way this process has been coopted by wealthy special interests. From my perspective the viability of our country's political system absent any social moral norms is questionable.

Moving the 2nd amendment convo to its own thread:
↳ Without 2A, What Good Are the Other Amendments?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11281

Glenn,
The President was never supposed to be this powerful. By this, I am not referring specifically to Trump. They're all doing it.

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:30 am Glenn,
The President was never supposed to be this powerful. By this, I am not referring specifically to Trump. They're all doing it.

No argument there. In my opinion all three branches of government are exerting more power than contemplated, but the Executive branch is the most egregious because the power vests in one individual. The parties and they way they (both) function today is a massive problem by itself (and one that the Framers did not specifically contemplate either, from what I can glean).
As far as individual Presidents go, I would say Trump is the most blatantly opportunistic about it in my lifetime, though he's not alone. I don't think people fully appreciate how much the court system has restrained him thus far. The TikTok ban injunction is only the latest in a lengthy list. Don't even get me started on spoils politics and grift.

In his defense, I have often wondered whether his actions are truly symptomatic of a bent toward autocracy, or whether he just doesn't understand how collaborative government works so he just does what he does out of ignorance (or disregard). Other times, I think he, like all of us, is a product of our background circumstances and in his, he has operated as a sole businessperson accountable to no one else thus no real collaborative experience. The idea of collaborating with others and achieving consensus may be foreign to him.
Or he could just be a sociopathic autocrat loaded with inadequacy issues and a gift for captivating others into seeing him for what they wish he was. Clever enough to capitalize on loopholes in the system that never contemplated one such as him. Time will tell the real story.

Biden Tax Avoidance:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... ity-taxes/

Back in August, the Wall Street Journal’s Chris Jacobs exposed how the Biden family structured what is called an “S-Corp” to avoid paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes.

“How the Bidens Dodged the Payroll Tax,” was Jacobs’ headline on Aug. 10.

In it, the Journal details how the Bidens set up an S-Corporation to avoid paying more than half a million dollars in taxes they would have otherwise owed.

“Joe Biden responded to President Trump’s partial suspension of payroll-tax collections with a statement calling it the ‘first shot in a new, reckless war on Social Security,’” Jacobs wrote. He continued: “‘Our seniors and millions of Americans with disabilities are under enough stress without Trump putting their hard-earned Social Security benefits in doubt.’ Mr. Biden’s objections might be more persuasive had he and his wife, Jill, not gone out of their way to avoid funding seniors’ entitlement benefits. According to their tax returns, in 2017 and 2018 the Bidens and his wife Jill avoided payroll taxes on nearly $13.3 million in income from book royalties and speaking fees. They did so by classifying the income as S-corporation profits rather than taxable wages.”

Jacobs continued in his expose by noting the corporation the Bidens established to avoid paying the payroll taxes on millions of dollars in income amounts to more than half a million dollars in taxes that Joe and Jill Biden did not pay.

I haven't seen the original story. As an owner of an S Corp, I am in no position to bash Biden on it. Just posting to illustrate that the tax code has all sorts of favorable provisions, and Democrats use them too.

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:00 pm Biden Tax Avoidance:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... ity-taxes/

Back in August, the Wall Street Journal’s Chris Jacobs exposed how the Biden family structured what is called an “S-Corp” to avoid paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes.

“How the Bidens Dodged the Payroll Tax,” was Jacobs’ headline on Aug. 10.

In it, the Journal details how the Bidens set up an S-Corporation to avoid paying more than half a million dollars in taxes they would have otherwise owed.

“Joe Biden responded to President Trump’s partial suspension of payroll-tax collections with a statement calling it the ‘first shot in a new, reckless war on Social Security,’” Jacobs wrote. He continued: “‘Our seniors and millions of Americans with disabilities are under enough stress without Trump putting their hard-earned Social Security benefits in doubt.’ Mr. Biden’s objections might be more persuasive had he and his wife, Jill, not gone out of their way to avoid funding seniors’ entitlement benefits. According to their tax returns, in 2017 and 2018 the Bidens and his wife Jill avoided payroll taxes on nearly $13.3 million in income from book royalties and speaking fees. They did so by classifying the income as S-corporation profits rather than taxable wages.”

Jacobs continued in his expose by noting the corporation the Bidens established to avoid paying the payroll taxes on millions of dollars in income amounts to more than half a million dollars in taxes that Joe and Jill Biden did not pay.

I haven't seen the original story. As an owner of an S Corp, I am in no position to bash Biden on it. Just posting to illustrate that the tax code has all sorts of favorable provisions, and Democrats use them too.

I'm sure. The tax code is a disgrace. The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades. Trump embodies this blind anger. Americans know something is wrong but have no idea where to stick the blame. Trump is a big middle finger to everything...unfortunately that rarely solves anything

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades.

Why is that? I ask anyone here.

Why isn't there more altruism in government and corp boardrooms? At some point, jeez, you have more money than you can possibly ever use. Why the need to accumulate ever more?

It is a brain wiring thing that I don't share.

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm I'm sure. The tax code is a disgrace. The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades. Trump embodies this blind anger. Americans know something is wrong but have no idea where to stick the blame. Trump is a big middle finger to everything...unfortunately that rarely solves anything

With 47 years as a legislator wouldn't you have to say that Biden has had a lot more to do with the tax code than Trump?

I love listening to Thomas Sowell on this subject (actually ANY subject but I really like this one). As he points out in a video I just watched, when tax rates were at 70% to make the rich pay their "fair share" nobody paid that rate. The rich just moved their money into tax free investments like municipal bonds. When the rates were lowered, the rich actually ended up paying a larger percentage of the overall tax burden because they didn't have to look for what they call "loopholes" and could keep their money invested in more productive ways.

As I just read somewhere today, real-estate is one business where the name of the game is not to make a profit on paper and avoid paying taxes. So if Trump didn't pay a lot in taxes he must have been doing something right.

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:05 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades.

Why is that? I ask anyone here.

Why isn't there more altruism in government and corp boardrooms? At some point, jeez, you have more money than you can possibly ever use. Why the need to accumulate ever more?

It is a brain wiring thing that I don't share.

It isn't an altruism thing...it's workers not being paid their fair share for what they contribute to the productivity of the economy. The top continue to take a larger and larger share of the overall pie despite the fact that productivity has almost doubled in 50 years. The middle class and lower classes just stands back and lets them do this. It's mind boggling. Frankly, no public company CEO deserves the compensation they receive relative to their workers salaries. Put workers representatives into boardrooms, and organize labor.

Simonjester wrote:

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:25 pm

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:05 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades.

Why is that? I ask anyone here.

Why isn't there more altruism in government and corp boardrooms? At some point, jeez, you have more money than you can possibly ever use. Why the need to accumulate ever more?

It is a brain wiring thing that I don't share.

It isn't an altruism thing...it's workers not being paid their fair share for what they contribute to the productivity of the economy. The top continue to take a larger and larger share of the overall pie despite the fact that productivity has almost doubled in 50 years. The middle class and lower classes just stands back and lets them do this. It's mind boggling. Frankly, no public company CEO deserves the compensation they receive relative to their workers salaries. Put workers representatives into boardrooms, and organize labor.

larger share of the over all pie? is the pie a fixed size? or is the pie growing? and if so are they taking a larger share (along with everyone) or relative to the little guy ... can you show the stats?

Doesn't matter what size the pie is. Great inequality within a society is destabilizing and leads to worse outcomes for everyone involved..including the upper class. Rectifying this doesn't involve communist controls. The influence of wealth on our democracy and laws needs to be moderated, corporate boardrooms and the compensation packages they approve for upper management needs to have inputs from workers who have representation on boards, workers need to organize to mitigate the upper hand that capital has over labor. I don't know what the magic number is but when the top one percent holds 50 percent of the wealth within a society and also controls our political system and economic system then I have my doubts that the system that emerges from this state of affairs will benefit the vast majority of people within society.

Simonjester wrote:
i think it does matter whether the pie is growing or not, (it does)... but even if you are not picturing it as a zero sum game and the pie grows and the poor are doing better as well, in what way is it destabilizing? the only destabilizing influences i can see are envy on the part of the poor and corruption on the part of the rich, eliminating high wealth wont stop either the envy or the corruption, better laws/better enforcement to prevent influence pedaling i am in favor of.. flat organizations are interesting, but if their structure was an improvement i think corporations would be adopting it all over the place. upper managements golden packages seem outrageous to me as an hourly wage earner, but they don't seem to be outrageous to the shareholders and decision makers, somebody is making a ROI calculation and coming up with "yes it is a good value to pay this much" as their answer... why do you think that is?

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:00 pm Biden Tax Avoidance:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020 ... ity-taxes/

Back in August, the Wall Street Journal’s Chris Jacobs exposed how the Biden family structured what is called an “S-Corp” to avoid paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes.

“How the Bidens Dodged the Payroll Tax,” was Jacobs’ headline on Aug. 10.

In it, the Journal details how the Bidens set up an S-Corporation to avoid paying more than half a million dollars in taxes they would have otherwise owed.

“Joe Biden responded to President Trump’s partial suspension of payroll-tax collections with a statement calling it the ‘first shot in a new, reckless war on Social Security,’” Jacobs wrote. He continued: “‘Our seniors and millions of Americans with disabilities are under enough stress without Trump putting their hard-earned Social Security benefits in doubt.’ Mr. Biden’s objections might be more persuasive had he and his wife, Jill, not gone out of their way to avoid funding seniors’ entitlement benefits. According to their tax returns, in 2017 and 2018 the Bidens and his wife Jill avoided payroll taxes on nearly $13.3 million in income from book royalties and speaking fees. They did so by classifying the income as S-corporation profits rather than taxable wages.”

Jacobs continued in his expose by noting the corporation the Bidens established to avoid paying the payroll taxes on millions of dollars in income amounts to more than half a million dollars in taxes that Joe and Jill Biden did not pay.

I haven't seen the original story. As an owner of an S Corp, I am in no position to bash Biden on it. Just posting to illustrate that the tax code has all sorts of favorable provisions, and Democrats use them too.

Yes. All kinds of people chose to Sub S corporation status. Just as others choose to be a C corporation, a sole proprietorship, a partnership, an LLC (and then choosing to be taxed as either a partnership or a corporation).

Nothing nefarious regarding choosing Sub S status. It has a ton of restricting requirements for being allowed to choose that status.

And, in regards to the Biden's choosing Sub S taxes as a way to "avoid funding seniors’ entitlement benefits"...this is a major hot button issue with the IRS. They will review whether the breakdown between owner compensation via employee wages and owner compensation via Sub S dividends is appropriate for the work being done as an employee. There is the expectation that the owner takes appropriate employee compensation for the work they do as an employee, with resulting net (taxable) income being taken as a Sub S dividend.

S Corporations and Salaries: An IRS Hot Button Issue

The IRS has stepped up its scrutiny of salary versus distributions with S corp employees.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia ... issue.html

Vinny

Yes, I had to make sure to draw an appropriate salary.

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:22 pm Yes, I had to make sure to draw an appropriate salary.

I've worked with various CPAs and what they regard as being appropriate. One had a fixed two to one ratio. He would not allow the net income to be more than twice the salary. Others never ever raised the issue.

Vinny

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:09 pmDoesn't matter what size the pie is. Great inequality within a society is destabilizing and leads to worse outcomes for everyone involved..including the upper class.

It would be your preference to make the poor ever more poor, as long as the wealthy are less wealthy?

I'll let Lady Thatcher respond:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdR7WW3XR9c
(the whole 2:34 video is on topic, even though it briefly looks like it switches to a different topic)

Why has the disparity between CEO pay and average worker pay increased so much over the past 50 years? Are CEOs adding that much more value?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/16/ceos-se ... orker.html

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:02 pm Why has the disparity between CEO pay and average worker pay increased so much over the past 50 years? Are CEOs adding that much more value?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/16/ceos-se ... orker.html

That question was discussed on an episode of NPR’s Planet Money podcast a couple of years ago.

Short answer: It’s mostly due to a change in the corporate tax code introduced by Bill Clinton in the mid-1990s:

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018 ... y-exploded

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:05 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades.

Why is that? I ask anyone here.

Why isn't there more altruism in government and corp boardrooms? At some point, jeez, you have more money than you can possibly ever use. Why the need to accumulate ever more?

It is a brain wiring thing that I don't share.

Last night read this excellent book, which for me was a page turner and which I highlighted much in it:

The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon

https://smile.amazon.com/Everything-Sto ... 193&sr=8-1

Regarding Bezos's motivations for increasing his wealth?

"An interviewer once asked Bezos why he was motivated to accomplish so much, considering that he had already amassed an exceedingly large fortune, "I have realized about myself that I'm very motivated by people counting on me, " he answered, "I like to be counted on."

Some years ago I'd read a prior book on Amazon. This one was focused BOTH on Amazon and Bezos. I now consider Jeff Bezos one of the greatest Americans EVER! His constant drive regarding Amazon has been to provide the customer with the best possible experience. To do so he's constantly had his eye on the long-term to much financial short-term non-performance. He has been a brilliant person since a child, a relentless worker, an extreme visionary, and a bold risk taker. He should be honored for all he's achieved as one of the greatest Americans EVER!

Vinny

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:14 am

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:05 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades.

Why is that? I ask anyone here.

Why isn't there more altruism in government and corp boardrooms? At some point, jeez, you have more money than you can possibly ever use. Why the need to accumulate ever more?

It is a brain wiring thing that I don't share.

Last night read this excellent book, which for me was a page turner and which I highlighted much in it:

The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon

https://smile.amazon.com/Everything-Sto ... 193&sr=8-1

Regarding Bezos's motivations for increasing his wealth?

"An interviewer once asked Bezos why he was motivated to accomplish so much, considering that he had already amassed an exceedingly large fortune, "I have realized about myself that I'm very motivated by people counting on me, " he answered, "I like to be counted on."

Some years ago I'd read a prior book on Amazon. This one was focused BOTH on Amazon and Bezos. I now consider Jeff Bezos one of the greatest Americans EVER! His constant drive regarding Amazon has been to provide the customer with the best possible experience. To do so he's constantly had his eye on the long-term to much financial short-term non-performance. He has been a brilliant person since a child, a relentless worker, an extreme visionary, and a bold risk taker. He should be honored for all he's achieved as one of the greatest Americans EVER!

Vinny

Honored...perhaps I guess it depends on who one asks. The tough thing about progress is that it's hard to tell what the long term ramifications are of any new invention. Zuckerberg and social media revolutionized the way we interact and communicate....however their invention could eventually contribute to the destruction of democracy and civil war. It would be kind of ironic if the individuals responsiblenfor the decline of Western democracies were rewarded billions for their hand in this. If human induced global warming turns out to be true (as I believe it is) then we will have rewarded fossil fuel energy companies billions for technology that contributed to large ecological problems. I guess I'm more "conservative" in my willingness to lay praise on disruptive technology. Let's wait 50 or 100 years and then evaluate.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:14 am

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:05 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades.

Why is that? I ask anyone here.

Why isn't there more altruism in government and corp boardrooms? At some point, jeez, you have more money than you can possibly ever use. Why the need to accumulate ever more?

It is a brain wiring thing that I don't share.

Last night read this excellent book, which for me was a page turner and which I highlighted much in it:

The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon

https://smile.amazon.com/Everything-Sto ... 193&sr=8-1

Regarding Bezos's motivations for increasing his wealth?

"An interviewer once asked Bezos why he was motivated to accomplish so much, considering that he had already amassed an exceedingly large fortune, "I have realized about myself that I'm very motivated by people counting on me, " he answered, "I like to be counted on."

Some years ago I'd read a prior book on Amazon. This one was focused BOTH on Amazon and Bezos. I now consider Jeff Bezos one of the greatest Americans EVER! His constant drive regarding Amazon has been to provide the customer with the best possible experience. To do so he's constantly had his eye on the long-term to much financial short-term non-performance. He has been a brilliant person since a child, a relentless worker, an extreme visionary, and a bold risk taker. He should be honored for all he's achieved as one of the greatest Americans EVER!

Vinny

Yet at the same time that he's created so many jobs, from personal knowledge of some friends of friends who have worked in their warehouses, they are worked to death and spit out if they can't handle it. Not sure how to merge that into his biography.

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:20 am

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:14 am

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:05 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades.

Why is that? I ask anyone here.

Why isn't there more altruism in government and corp boardrooms? At some point, jeez, you have more money than you can possibly ever use. Why the need to accumulate ever more?

It is a brain wiring thing that I don't share.

Last night read this excellent book, which for me was a page turner and which I highlighted much in it:

The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon

https://smile.amazon.com/Everything-Sto ... 193&sr=8-1

Regarding Bezos's motivations for increasing his wealth?

"An interviewer once asked Bezos why he was motivated to accomplish so much, considering that he had already amassed an exceedingly large fortune, "I have realized about myself that I'm very motivated by people counting on me, " he answered, "I like to be counted on."

Some years ago I'd read a prior book on Amazon. This one was focused BOTH on Amazon and Bezos. I now consider Jeff Bezos one of the greatest Americans EVER! His constant drive regarding Amazon has been to provide the customer with the best possible experience. To do so he's constantly had his eye on the long-term to much financial short-term non-performance. He has been a brilliant person since a child, a relentless worker, an extreme visionary, and a bold risk taker. He should be honored for all he's achieved as one of the greatest Americans EVER!

Vinny

Yet at the same time that he's created so many jobs, from personal knowledge of some friends of friends who have worked in their warehouses, they are worked to death and spit out if they can't handle it. Not sure how to merge that into his biography.

Isn't it just plain American capitalism? Presumably none of those people had to take jobs at Amazon and could have chosen to work elsewhere? Isn't that the overriding philosophy of this forum?

And, Bezos is just as hard on EVERYONE in the company, including the direct reports to him. Extremely high expectations. If you cannot meet them then he does not want you there. A lot of them cannot take such high expectations and have short tenures at Amazon (usually by their choice and NOT Bezos's.). However, many of them do come back because of recognition of all Bezos drove them to acheive.

If he'd done it any other way, Amazon from a customer experience would not exist the way it is today.

Our American capitalism depends upon what would consider exploitive labor in foreign countries. Those companies that, however, just are not running their companies as brilliantly as has Bezos has run Amazon.

Getting back to your original comment. Somewhat similar criticism towards Walmart? More on the lines of how low they are paid. But, again, is anyone forced to take a job at Walmart?

Vinny

Yes, back to taxes.

Some things are systemic and our tax code enables these things. It is what it is because both parties bake in goodies for their constituents. Do that for a 100 years or so and it gets pretty insane. However, try to remove a goodie and people go crazy. In my world taxes would go something like this.

- Flat or graduated with zero deductions for anything
- Social Security & Medicare flat or graduated with all income taxed

- Business taxes are much more difficult...but I think the easiest thing would be to allow structures, material cost of goods and wages as the only business deductibles allowed. Flat corporate tax or no corporate tax if all annual earnings (or a high percentage were distributed each year like a REIT)

Segmenting now to an earlier comment...it wouldn't matter if a blue collar guy had access to a premier tax attorney who took him on pro bono because there's nothing the attorney could do for him.

None of this would ever happen though, think how many attorneys and accountants (highly paid ones) would be out of work.

Complexity is employment.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:36 am

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:20 am

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:14 am

Cortopassi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:05 pm

doodle wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:48 pm The American public has been totally screwed by insider elites and special interests for decades.

Why is that? I ask anyone here.

Why isn't there more altruism in government and corp boardrooms? At some point, jeez, you have more money than you can possibly ever use. Why the need to accumulate ever more?

It is a brain wiring thing that I don't share.

Last night read this excellent book, which for me was a page turner and which I highlighted much in it:

The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon

https://smile.amazon.com/Everything-Sto ... 193&sr=8-1

Regarding Bezos's motivations for increasing his wealth?

"An interviewer once asked Bezos why he was motivated to accomplish so much, considering that he had already amassed an exceedingly large fortune, "I have realized about myself that I'm very motivated by people counting on me, " he answered, "I like to be counted on."

Some years ago I'd read a prior book on Amazon. This one was focused BOTH on Amazon and Bezos. I now consider Jeff Bezos one of the greatest Americans EVER! His constant drive regarding Amazon has been to provide the customer with the best possible experience. To do so he's constantly had his eye on the long-term to much financial short-term non-performance. He has been a brilliant person since a child, a relentless worker, an extreme visionary, and a bold risk taker. He should be honored for all he's achieved as one of the greatest Americans EVER!

Vinny

Yet at the same time that he's created so many jobs, from personal knowledge of some friends of friends who have worked in their warehouses, they are worked to death and spit out if they can't handle it. Not sure how to merge that into his biography.

Isn't it just plain American capitalism? Presumably none of those people had to take jobs at Amazon and could have chosen to work elsewhere? Isn't that the overriding philosophy of this forum?

And, Bezos is just as hard on EVERYONE in the company, including the direct reports to him. Extremely high expectations. If you cannot meet them then he does not want you there. A lot of them cannot take such high expectations and have short tenures at Amazon (usually by their choice and NOT Bezos's.). However, many of them do come back because of recognition of all Bezos drove them to acheive.

If he'd done it any other way, Amazon from a customer experience would not exist the way it is today.

Our American capitalism depends upon what would consider exploitive labor in foreign countries. Those companies that, however, just are not running their companies as brilliantly as has Bezos has run Amazon.

Getting back to your original comment. Somewhat similar criticism towards Walmart? More on the lines of how low they are paid. But, again, is anyone forced to take a job at Walmart?

Vinny

A large proportion of Amazon workers depend on food assistance to feed families...as high as 30% I believe in Arizona.

Do workers really have an option? What if a small business owner had to shut down shop because Amazon or walmart moved into town? Might be their only option. I'm not against this change but do think that labor should have the right to organize. Corporations strategically operate with cohesive strategy to maximize profit from workers, perhaps it would be in the Amazon workers best interests to do the same.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:36 am
Getting back to your original comment. Somewhat similar criticism towards Walmart? More on the lines of how low they are paid. But, again, is anyone forced to take a job at Walmart?

People here would not like my thinking on CEO vs. worker pay. Personally I think it is out of line. My wife says if companies are willing to pay big salaries and/or give those extravagant stock options, it's their right.

And I'm not one to say, ok, anything over 10 million dollars is taxed at 90% sort of thing. I'd rather see that money go back spread among employees vs. the government. Employee ownership or something maybe.

Help me out, 30/40/50 years ago, a blue collar worker, like my Dad, could earn a good living, live in a decent house, have a couple cars and a wife who stayed at home all on one salary. That seems almost undoable currently.

In my utopia, everyone who works at a full time job (even at Walmart) should be able to afford food, housing, transportation and healthcare on one salary, offering the opportunity for the other parent to stay at home and raise kids.

Go ahead and rip me a new one on this!

Kbg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:41 am Yes, back to taxes.

Some things are systemic and our tax code enables these things. It is what it is because both parties bake in goodies for their constituents. Do that for a 100 years or so and it gets pretty insane. However, try to remove a goodie and people go crazy. In my world taxes would go something like this.

- Flat or graduated with zero deductions for anything
- Social Security & Medicare flat or graduated with all income taxed

- Business taxes are much more difficult...but I think the easiest thing would be to allow structures, material cost of goods and wages as the only business deductibles allowed. Flat corporate tax or no corporate tax if all annual earnings (or a high percentage were distributed each year like a REIT)

Segmenting now to an earlier comment...it wouldn't matter if a blue collar guy had access to a premier tax attorney who took him on pro bono because there's nothing the attorney could do for him.

None of this would ever happen though, think how many attorneys and accountants (highly paid ones) would be out of work.

Complexity is employment.

Can you describe why you need to tax corporate incomes as well as personal incomes? It seems to me that taxing exclusively personal incomes would be best. A whole class of enormously complex tax law would be unnecessary. America would become the world's tax haven instead of the other way around. And the government still get taxes whenever anybody actually wants to take any of that money out.