What Did Trump Do That Was So Bad?

[yankees60]

Okay so far, if I can summarize Vinny's post, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Trump is not presidential in his behavior and mannerisms.

My concern is Biden's proposed plans will destroy my life if he actually gets them enacted, so my opinion on how presidential or not Trump may be seems trivial compared to losing my job, losing my money, and losing my freedoms.

So I'm still really trying to figure out exactly what Trump has done to ruin the country that we need to get rid of him to avoid more of X that he has done. Hopefully Doodle has some answers.

The summary only covers a tiny portion. Others are completely consumed with his behavior and mannerisms. I'm concerned with his overall competence with doing the job. Don't believe he has the tools necessary to get the job done.

Vinny

[yankees60]

When I worked with a highly successful business owner $$$$-wise and he was complaining about how much in taxes he was paying...I told him that that was a good thing. He should want to pay more and more in taxes because that would mean his after-tax income was going up and up and up. He understood it right away.

Vinny

Dude should have fired you right away and gone with a serious tax firm.
I use Geffen Mesher out of Portland.

I am sure you have heard of Ernst & Young? One of the Big Four accounting firms in the world? I suspect that they might be bigger and more knowledgeable than the firm you mentioned?

They were out outside accounting firm, doing our annual reviews.

Each year in December I'd do a tax plan for both the business and, most importantly, the business owner. And, send it on to Ernst & Young, whereby it'd be reviewed by the review partner and the tax manager and partner. Then we'd have a meeting to review my plan and make any necessary adjustments. Usually, there were none.

When it came to tax return times, I'd use TurboTax to create both the corporate and owner's personal returns. I'd call the tax manager for any questions I had regarding new business / personal issues that had arisen or new tax laws that I did not know how to handle tax return-wise.

When I finished the returns I'd send them to Ernst & Young for their review.

We did this for about seven years.

They never once changed anything in those returns I sent to them. And, they did not even bother putting those returns through their own system. They would just sign them and return them to us in their binders that held tax returns. Plus give us a bill for $4,000 (about $7,200 in today's $$$). Note that they did almost no work, other than the tax manager answering my questions. We looked at it as the price for getting a Big 4 accounting firm's signature on the tax returns.

Vinny

[Kriegsspiel]

Bottom line....no matter what type of business you are in....you want to be paying tons and tons of taxes because that means you have a HUGE after-tax income.

Vinny

That doesn't make any sense to me. The thing everyone wants is huge profit, not huge taxes.

[yankees60]

Bottom line....no matter what type of business you are in....you want to be paying tons and tons of taxes because that means you have a HUGE after-tax income.

Vinny

That doesn't make any sense to me. The thing everyone wants is huge profit, not huge taxes.

Of course. With huge profit comes huge taxes. Unless you believe in the myth that those who make huge profits can afford the high priced accountants who find all those loopholes so you pay less taxes than you and me.

I just gave you an example of my work being reviewed by a Big 4 accounting firm. Reviewed by both a tax manager and a tax partner. Never any changes or suggestions by them as to what to do to reduce the taxes owed.

I'll give you a choice. Would you rather make $30,000 and pay zero income taxes? Or, make $1,000,000 and pay $200,000 taxes? I know what my choice is every time.

All things being equal, the goal is always to have the highest after-tax income.

Vinny

[doodle]

He would have been wealthier if he had just invested Daddy's money in the stock market...the opportunity cost of running his 'real estate empire' has perhaps been billions...in other words he's a failure. I could go on and on but that's enough to disqualify him for me.

What about the properties he's developed, the people he's employed, and the customers his businesses have served? Are they worth nothing?

Are you saying that the almighty dollar is all that really matters? Unless I'm mistaken, that doesn't jive with other posts you've made here.

No, from a philanthropical standpoint those are all great. I'm remarking that he is not the succesful businessman that he has made himself out to be. Anyone can become a millionaire provided they start with 2 million dollars. Besides, as I've mentioned a dozen times here I've personally worked with honest contractors who he refused to pay for their work.

Okay so far, if I can summarize Vinny's post, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Trump is not presidential in his behavior and mannerisms.

My concern is Biden's proposed plans will destroy my life if he actually gets them enacted, so my opinion on how presidential or not Trump may be seems trivial compared to losing my job, losing my money, and losing my freedoms.

So I'm still really trying to figure out exactly what Trump has done to ruin the country that we need to get rid of him to avoid more of X that he has done. Hopefully Doodle has some answers.

The summary only covers a tiny portion. Others are completely consumed with his behavior and mannerisms. I'm concerned with his overall competence with doing the job. Don't believe he has the tools necessary to get the job done.

Vinny

Tom, I think Trumps personality is damaging to the policies that I support. Browbeating and bullying opponents will create a dangerous backlash and radicalization of the populace. He is tiptoing with bringing this country closer towards civil war. His style of enacting change might feel good on a visceral level but I guarantee that in the long run it will do more damage than good.

[doodle]

When I worked with a highly successful business owner $$$$-wise and he was complaining about how much in taxes he was paying...I told him that that was a good thing. He should want to pay more and more in taxes because that would mean his after-tax income was going up and up and up. He understood it right away.

Vinny

Dude should have fired you right away and gone with a serious tax firm.
I use Geffen Mesher out of Portland.

I am sure you have heard of Ernst & Young? One of the Big Four accounting firms in the world? I suspect that they might be bigger and more knowledgeable than the firm you mentioned?

They were out outside accounting firm, doing our annual reviews.

Each year in December I'd do a tax plan for both the business and, most importantly, the business owner. And, send it on to Ernst & Young, whereby it'd be reviewed by the review partner and the tax manager and partner. Then we'd have a meeting to review my plan and make any necessary adjustments. Usually, there were none.

When it came to tax return times, I'd use TurboTax to create both the corporate and owner's personal returns. I'd call the tax manager for any questions I had regarding new business / personal issues that had arisen or new tax laws that I did not know how to handle tax return-wise.

When I finished the returns I'd send them to Ernst & Young for their review.

We did this for about seven years.

They never once changed anything in those returns I sent to them. And, they did not even bother putting those returns through their own system. They would just sign them and return them to us in their binders that held tax returns. Plus give us a bill for $4,000 (about $7,200 in today's $$$). Note that they did almost no work, other than the tax manager answering my questions. We looked at it as the price for getting a Big 4 accounting firm's signature on the tax returns.

Vinny

So in other words the tax returns you filed for them haven't been under audit for three years as Trump claims his to be?

[yankees60]

When I worked with a highly successful business owner $$$$-wise and he was complaining about how much in taxes he was paying...I told him that that was a good thing. He should want to pay more and more in taxes because that would mean his after-tax income was going up and up and up. He understood it right away.

Vinny

Dude should have fired you right away and gone with a serious tax firm.
I use Geffen Mesher out of Portland.

I am sure you have heard of Ernst & Young? One of the Big Four accounting firms in the world? I suspect that they might be bigger and more knowledgeable than the firm you mentioned?

They were out outside accounting firm, doing our annual reviews.

Each year in December I'd do a tax plan for both the business and, most importantly, the business owner. And, send it on to Ernst & Young, whereby it'd be reviewed by the review partner and the tax manager and partner. Then we'd have a meeting to review my plan and make any necessary adjustments. Usually, there were none.

When it came to tax return times, I'd use TurboTax to create both the corporate and owner's personal returns. I'd call the tax manager for any questions I had regarding new business / personal issues that had arisen or new tax laws that I did not know how to handle tax return-wise.

When I finished the returns I'd send them to Ernst & Young for their review.

We did this for about seven years.

They never once changed anything in those returns I sent to them. And, they did not even bother putting those returns through their own system. They would just sign them and return them to us in their binders that held tax returns. Plus give us a bill for $4,000 (about $7,200 in today's $$$). Note that they did almost no work, other than the tax manager answering my questions. We looked at it as the price for getting a Big 4 accounting firm's signature on the tax returns.

Vinny

So in other words the tax returns you filed for them haven't been under audit for three years as Trump claims his to be?

One year one of the corporate tax returns was chosen for audit by the IRS. The auditor was there for three days. He found nothing. He told me that he could tell on the first day that he'd not find anything. In other words, he was telling me he could tell right away that we did things in an above board, not shady manner.

Now I'm sure others might respond that if that was the case then you were not being aggressive enough in your tax positions.

We were aggressive. Just not stupid to break any obvious tax laws. Or, do things like use any falsified numbers. In general, the IRS only has three years to challenge any tax returns filed. However, in the case of fraud, they can challenge forever.

We reported every penny of income. And, every expense we claimed was backed up by substantiation.

Finally, one time the business owner wanted to do something which I thought was completely wrong. I was troubled by it. For a few days I thought about the best way to confront him about it to convince him not to do it. I finally settled on and convinced him by saying that this is one of those things that gets you in that left hand column on the front page of the Wall Street Journal (he was an avid reader of it). I don't know what they put there now but back in the 90s, you did not want your business showing up in that column!


Vinny

[doodle]

When I worked with a highly successful business owner $$$$-wise and he was complaining about how much in taxes he was paying...I told him that that was a good thing. He should want to pay more and more in taxes because that would mean his after-tax income was going up and up and up. He understood it right away.

Vinny

Dude should have fired you right away and gone with a serious tax firm.
I use Geffen Mesher out of Portland.

I am sure you have heard of Ernst & Young? One of the Big Four accounting firms in the world? I suspect that they might be bigger and more knowledgeable than the firm you mentioned?

They were out outside accounting firm, doing our annual reviews.

Each year in December I'd do a tax plan for both the business and, most importantly, the business owner. And, send it on to Ernst & Young, whereby it'd be reviewed by the review partner and the tax manager and partner. Then we'd have a meeting to review my plan and make any necessary adjustments. Usually, there were none.

When it came to tax return times, I'd use TurboTax to create both the corporate and owner's personal returns. I'd call the tax manager for any questions I had regarding new business / personal issues that had arisen or new tax laws that I did not know how to handle tax return-wise.

When I finished the returns I'd send them to Ernst & Young for their review.

We did this for about seven years.

They never once changed anything in those returns I sent to them. And, they did not even bother putting those returns through their own system. They would just sign them and return them to us in their binders that held tax returns. Plus give us a bill for $4,000 (about $7,200 in today's $$$). Note that they did almost no work, other than the tax manager answering my questions. We looked at it as the price for getting a Big 4 accounting firm's signature on the tax returns.

Vinny

So in other words the tax returns you filed for them haven't been under audit for three years as Trump claims his to be?

One year one of the corporate tax returns was chosen for audit by the IRS. The auditor was there for three days. He found nothing. He told me that he could tell on the first day that he'd not find anything. In other words, he was telling me he could tell right away that we did things in an above board, not shady manner.

Now I'm sure others might respond that if that was the case then you were not being aggressive enough in your tax positions.

We were aggressive. Just not stupid to break any obvious tax laws. Or, do things like use any falsified numbers. In general, the IRS only has three years to challenge any tax returns filed. However, in the case of fraud, they can challenge forever.

We reported every penny of income. And, every expense we claimed was backed up by substantiation.

Finally, one time the business owner wanted to do something which I thought was completely wrong. I was troubled by it. For a few days I thought about the best way to confront him about it to convince him not to do it. I finally settled on and convinced him by saying that this is one of those things that gets you in that left hand column on the front page of the Wall Street Journal (he was an avid reader of it). I don't know what they put there now but back in the 90s, you did not want your business showing up in that column!


Vinny

So in other words, Trump's either lying about his taxes being under audit or his taxes are a real mess from a legal standpoint?

[yankees60]

When I worked with a highly successful business owner $$$$-wise and he was complaining about how much in taxes he was paying...I told him that that was a good thing. He should want to pay more and more in taxes because that would mean his after-tax income was going up and up and up. He understood it right away.

Vinny

Dude should have fired you right away and gone with a serious tax firm.
I use Geffen Mesher out of Portland.

I am sure you have heard of Ernst & Young? One of the Big Four accounting firms in the world? I suspect that they might be bigger and more knowledgeable than the firm you mentioned?

They were out outside accounting firm, doing our annual reviews.

Each year in December I'd do a tax plan for both the business and, most importantly, the business owner. And, send it on to Ernst & Young, whereby it'd be reviewed by the review partner and the tax manager and partner. Then we'd have a meeting to review my plan and make any necessary adjustments. Usually, there were none.

When it came to tax return times, I'd use TurboTax to create both the corporate and owner's personal returns. I'd call the tax manager for any questions I had regarding new business / personal issues that had arisen or new tax laws that I did not know how to handle tax return-wise.

When I finished the returns I'd send them to Ernst & Young for their review.

We did this for about seven years.

They never once changed anything in those returns I sent to them. And, they did not even bother putting those returns through their own system. They would just sign them and return them to us in their binders that held tax returns. Plus give us a bill for $4,000 (about $7,200 in today's $$$). Note that they did almost no work, other than the tax manager answering my questions. We looked at it as the price for getting a Big 4 accounting firm's signature on the tax returns.

Vinny

So in other words the tax returns you filed for them haven't been under audit for three years as Trump claims his to be?

One year one of the corporate tax returns was chosen for audit by the IRS. The auditor was there for three days. He found nothing. He told me that he could tell on the first day that he'd not find anything. In other words, he was telling me he could tell right away that we did things in an above board, not shady manner.

Now I'm sure others might respond that if that was the case then you were not being aggressive enough in your tax positions.

We were aggressive. Just not stupid to break any obvious tax laws. Or, do things like use any falsified numbers. In general, the IRS only has three years to challenge any tax returns filed. However, in the case of fraud, they can challenge forever.

We reported every penny of income. And, every expense we claimed was backed up by substantiation.

Finally, one time the business owner wanted to do something which I thought was completely wrong. I was troubled by it. For a few days I thought about the best way to confront him about it to convince him not to do it. I finally settled on and convinced him by saying that this is one of those things that gets you in that left hand column on the front page of the Wall Street Journal (he was an avid reader of it). I don't know what they put there now but back in the 90s, you did not want your business showing up in that column!


Vinny

So in other words, Trump's either lying about his taxes being under audit or his taxes are a real mess from a legal standpoint?

From reading those New York Times articles about his taxes a few weeks ago it seems like the IRS is saying he owes $78 million when he is saying not.

Of course, auditing his tax returns are going to be far more complex than what I underwent. By the way did you know that the IRS has an office right at General Motors so that they can keep a constant eye on them and are continually auditing them? Or, least that was the case decades ago.

I've never come close to dealing with anything near the magnitude of the Trump enterprise. Therefore I could not give an opinion of how long they can be under audit. Again, absent fraud, the IRS can only challenge the last three years returns. But I guess both sides can contest forever until some court makes a final judgement.

Vinny

[Xan]

What would anyone think of the corporate tax rate being at 0%?

How much manpower is wasted, both on the side of companies (like GM, in your example Vinny) and on the IRS side in trying to keep track of these enormously complex entities?

Wouldn't the US become the world's tax haven with 0% corporate taxes? How would that be anything but a boon?

Do corporate taxes actually contribute to the coffers any more than individuals earning more corporate profit would pay in taxes?

[Cortopassi]

Trump is a mean, bully , never lets a grudge go jerk. That is the single over-riding factor in my voting decision.

Trump has no idea how to delegate responsibility and how to use his assets (people) effectively. He undermines or over-rides them constantly, and ends up with a revolving door staff.

I have worked at multiple startups (7) where sometimes the CEO was similar to Trump (2) and where the CEO was 180 degrees different (5). All the businesses failed within 24 months (except the current one). It made no difference in the end, so I figure you might as well be a reasonably nice individual, at least to your employees, while you are trying to be successful.

My current employment, where I've been almost 15 years (4x longer than any previous) has a CEO who is smart, tough, and a good salesman. And was/is an engineer. AND treats people well.

You can do all your 6 bullet points without being a major dick.

[Cortopassi]

Trump is a mean, bully , never lets a grudge go jerk. That is the single over-riding factor in my voting decision.

So if your options are between a mean, mean, bully with good policy, and a nice guy with questionable policies, you go for the nice guy? Because, at least he's nice?

And if you think Biden's policies are better, please elaborate on what Trump did that was so bad, because so far all I've heard is that Orangeman bad, but haven't heard what laws Orangeman signed that were bad.

100% correct tf. If I were a computer, and only looked at the policies, I may have swung for Trump. But I am a human, and regardless of the policies, the personality that they are wrapped in completely overshadows any accomplishments.

I have said this is illogical. But I am not a computer. I have two young daughters who sway me a lot, for sure, and I am totally glad of that.

Running a country should not a continuous battle, us vs. them, winners vs. losers. Trump seems to run every decision that way. We are all in this together. Biden gives me some of that. Trump 100% does not.

[sophie]

Trump is a mean, bully , never lets a grudge go jerk. That is the single over-riding factor in my voting decision.

Cortopassi, I have nothing but respect for you and the posts you have made on the forum.

But I must say that this is one of the worst rationales for a voting decision imaginable. Taking this to its logical extreme, if Hitler came across in the media as somewhat reasonable, you would vote for him even if he was upfront with his ethnic cleansing plan.

Also, your impression of Trump is filtered through a highly biased lens. (I hope you are already reasonably well informed as to who is doing the biasing and filtering.) In real life I sincerely doubt he could be as much of a jerk as he's been portrayed - or he would never have been able to achieve what he has. People who are as ineffective as you say never get anywhere in life. Sure, he's pissed off a lot of people....show me one person in a powerful position who hasn't.

[flyingpylon]

Trump is a mean, bully , never lets a grudge go jerk. That is the single over-riding factor in my voting decision.

Cortopassi, I have nothing but respect for you and the posts you have made on the forum.

But I must say that this is one of the worst rationales for a voting decision imaginable. Taking this to its logical extreme, if Hitler came across in the media as somewhat reasonable, you would vote for him even if he was upfront with his ethnic cleansing plan.

Also, your impression of Trump is filtered through a highly biased lens. (I hope you are already reasonably well informed as to who is doing the biasing and filtering.) In real life I sincerely doubt he could be as much of a jerk as he's been portrayed - or he would never have been able to achieve what he has. People who are as ineffective as you say never get anywhere in life. Sure, he's pissed off a lot of people....show me one person in a powerful position who hasn't.

+1

These are the votes I don't understand. Policies and official actions aren't a problem, but hey, let's toss the country into the shitter just to stick it to Trump.

Sometimes you have to work with otherwise unsavory characters to get the job done.

[Tortoise]

I mean, I sure don't need to be paying $20/month [for a WSJ subscription] to read stuff I can find elsewhere for free.

FYI, I was also recently paying $20/month for my WSJ subscription. A few weeks ago I decided to cancel, but clicking on the cancel link took me through a series of six or seven "Are you sure?" screens, each one with a different counteroffer attempting to keep me on board. One of the counteroffers was a $10/month "app-only subscription" that I ended up accepting.

Not sure why they don't offer the $10/month app-only option on their main subscription page. Kind of reminds me of cable companies and their "secret" pricing options available only to customers who call and threaten to cancel.

[Cortopassi]

Trump is a mean, bully , never lets a grudge go jerk. That is the single over-riding factor in my voting decision.

Cortopassi, I have nothing but respect for you and the posts you have made on the forum.

But I must say that this is one of the worst rationales for a voting decision imaginable. Taking this to its logical extreme, if Hitler came across in the media as somewhat reasonable, you would vote for him even if he was upfront with his ethnic cleansing plan.

Also, your impression of Trump is filtered through a highly biased lens. (I hope you are already reasonably well informed as to who is doing the biasing and filtering.) In real life I sincerely doubt he could be as much of a jerk as he's been portrayed - or he would never have been able to achieve what he has. People who are as ineffective as you say never get anywhere in life. Sure, he's pissed off a lot of people....show me one person in a powerful position who hasn't.

Not following. Does Biden have an ethnic cleansing plan?

I stated it is the single over-riding factor. But I am much more aligned with his other positions than Trump -- move toward renewables, right to choose, figuring out a better way to fix immigration vs. building a wall are the three that popped into my head.

Don't tell me people didn't vote in 2016 just because they hated Hillary, vs. any policy reasons.

He could likely be/have been/was a great CEO. It's his company. He can fire and deal with issues virtually any way he needs to in order to be successful.

That did not translate well to a government position where you at least have to try to listen to more than 42% of the people you serve.

[sophie]

Thanks for the tip, Tortoise!!!!! I will happily do that.

The reason I accepted the $20/month deal in the first place is that I wanted to support what I thought was the best journalism available. Glad they've come to their senses...but $10 I would be much happier with for sure!!!!

[yankees60]

Trump is a mean, bully , never lets a grudge go jerk. That is the single over-riding factor in my voting decision.

Cortopassi, I have nothing but respect for you and the posts you have made on the forum.

But I must say that this is one of the worst rationales for a voting decision imaginable. Taking this to its logical extreme, if Hitler came across in the media as somewhat reasonable, you would vote for him even if he was upfront with his ethnic cleansing plan.

Also, your impression of Trump is filtered through a highly biased lens. (I hope you are already reasonably well informed as to who is doing the biasing and filtering.) In real life I sincerely doubt he could be as much of a jerk as he's been portrayed - or he would never have been able to achieve what he has. People who are as ineffective as you say never get anywhere in life. Sure, he's pissed off a lot of people....show me one person in a powerful position who hasn't.

Not following. Does Biden have an ethnic cleansing plan?

I stated it is the single over-riding factor. But I am much more aligned with his other positions than Trump -- move toward renewables, right to choose, figuring out a better way to fix immigration vs. building a wall are the three that popped into my head.

Don't tell me people didn't vote in 2016 just because they hated Hillary, vs. any policy reasons.

He could likely be/have been/was a great CEO. It's his company. He can fire and deal with issues virtually any way he needs to in order to be successful.

That did not translate well to a government position where you at least have to try to listen to more than 42% of the people you serve.

While keeping in mind that 42% probably translates to less than 24% of the eligible voting population. If those not voting would have voted the same then he is representing 42%. Maybe more than 42%. Or, maybe less than 42%. But, still, only 24% of those eligible to vote.

Vinny

[yankees60]

Tom, I think Trumps personality is damaging to the policies that I support. Browbeating and bullying opponents will create a dangerous backlash and radicalization of the populace. He is tiptoing with bringing this country closer towards civil war. His style of enacting change might feel good on a visceral level but I guarantee that in the long run it will do more damage than good.

Is it possible that the media exaggerates Trumps personality to help fuel more divisiveness?

I watched the new Borat movie where Rudy Guliani allegedly started masturbating in front of a 15 year old female reporter. It’s the fakest most heavily edited nonsense I’ve ever seen. He did nothing like that and was clearly set up to even make it 1% look like it.

I don’t follow much news or watch Orangeman on TV but a few times I heard Orangeman Bad, Orangeman made fun of handicapped reporter, and I watch the actual clip and I think... no, he didn’t, that’s not what happened. And Orangeman bad, Orangeman said the white supremacists were good people, and I watch the actual clip and think... no... that’s not what he said.

And in the first debate, Orangeman bad, Orangeman refused to comment on the proud boys. Well, that’s also not what happened. And yet here we are and Biden still can’t say Antifa, but no one in media is reporting on that.

My point being, maybe some of the Civil war problem is the media’s false interpretation of Trump.

Have you read ANY books about Trump? Particularly those who have worked with him, had close contact with him? Are they all liars? Are any of them capable of spewing out any more lies than he does with great regularity? Do any of them have less credibility than him? Do you deny any of (verifiable) quotes about the people who have decided to leave working for him? Coming in they were a great talent. Going out? Make your choice from any of the derogatory comments he's made towards them.

Tell me any successful business / organization / government that has so much turnover that he has at the top. Tell me any of the same that had been successful with so many guilty of crimes? None of this is the media's false interpretation of Trump.

For many of us the media sat on their hands for years. They were not at all prepared for the behavior of a president such as Trump. They were in such shock they did not challenge his inanities and out and out lies. Later on they finally got their footing and did start challenging him. Some.

He's an out and out bully. I don't like associating myself in any way with a bully? Do you? I don't allow myself to be bullied and I stand up to them. He's classic bully. Bullies and then goes full crybaby when he gets the least coming back toward him. Therefore, along with all my other reasons. I don't like and don't want a bully for president.

Vinny

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

Tom, I think Trumps personality is damaging to the policies that I support. Browbeating and bullying opponents will create a dangerous backlash and radicalization of the populace. He is tiptoing with bringing this country closer towards civil war. His style of enacting change might feel good on a visceral level but I guarantee that in the long run it will do more damage than good.

Is it possible that the media exaggerates Trumps personality to help fuel more divisiveness?

I watched the new Borat movie where Rudy Guliani allegedly started masturbating in front of a 15 year old female reporter. It’s the fakest most heavily edited nonsense I’ve ever seen. He did nothing like that and was clearly set up to even make it 1% look like it.

I don’t follow much news or watch Orangeman on TV but a few times I heard Orangeman Bad, Orangeman made fun of handicapped reporter, and I watch the actual clip and I think... no, he didn’t, that’s not what happened. And Orangeman bad, Orangeman said the white supremacists were good people, and I watch the actual clip and think... no... that’s not what he said.

And in the first debate, Orangeman bad, Orangeman refused to comment on the proud boys. Well, that’s also not what happened. And yet here we are and Biden still can’t say Antifa, but no one in media is reporting on that.

My point being, maybe some of the Civil war problem is the media’s false interpretation of Trump.

Have you read ANY books about Trump? Particularly those who have worked with him, had close contact with him? Are they all liars? Are any of them capable of spewing out any more lies than he does with great regularity? Do any of them have less credibility than him? Do you deny any of (verifiable) quotes about the people who have decided to leave working for him? Coming in they were a great talent. Going out? Make your choice from any of the derogatory comments he's made towards them.

Tell me any successful business / organization / government that has so much turnover that he has at the top. Tell me any of the same that had been successful with so many guilty of crimes? None of this is the media's false interpretation of Trump.

For many of us the media sat on their hands for years. They were not at all prepared for the behavior of a president such as Trump. They were in such shock they did not challenge his inanities and out and out lies. Later on they finally got their footing and did start challenging him. Some.

He's an out and out bully. I don't like associating myself in any way with a bully? Do you? I don't allow myself to be bullied and I stand up to them. He's classic bully. Bullies and then goes full crybaby when he gets the least coming back toward him. Therefore, along with all my other reasons. I don't like and don't want a bully for president.

Vinny

Vinny

YEAH, what Vinny said! They're all deep state losers. Washed up CEOs. Washed up generals. Couldn't handle Trump. Babies.

Seriously, Vinny just encapsulated it perfectly. C'mon guys, go defend it some more. But his policies....they're so good....

[yankees60]

Is it possible that the media exaggerates Trumps personality to help fuel more divisiveness?

Have you read ANY books about Trump? Particularly those who have worked with him, had close contact with him? Are they all liars? Are any of them capable of spewing out any more lies than he does with great regularity? Do any of them have less credibility than him? Do you deny any of (verifiable) quotes about the people who have decided to leave working for him? Coming in they were a great talent. Going out? Make your choice from any of the derogatory comments he's made towards them.

Tell me any successful business / organization / government that has so much turnover that he has at the top. Tell me any of the same that had been successful with so many guilty of crimes? None of this is the media's false interpretation of Trump.

For many of us the media sat on their hands for years. They were not at all prepared for the behavior of a president such as Trump. They were in such shock they did not challenge his inanities and out and out lies. Later on they finally got their footing and did start challenging him. Some.

He's an out and out bully. I don't like associating myself in any way with a bully? Do you? I don't allow myself to be bullied and I stand up to them. He's classic bully. Bullies and then goes full crybaby when he gets the least coming back toward him. Therefore, along with all my other reasons. I don't like and don't want a bully for president.

Vinny

I have not read any books about Trump. Nor have I read about books about Biden, or Obama, or George Bush or Clinton.

Similarly, I haven't read any books about Tim Cook, but I do use an iPhone. I haven't read any books about the CEO of Honda, but I drive one.

I did read a book about Sam Walton, but it was written by himself, and while he comes across as likable, I don't shop at Wal Mart, but it has nothing to do with Sam.

Personally, whether Tim Cook is a great guy or a total asshole, it doesn't impact my enjoyment or lack thereof of my iPhone. Same for my Honda Civic.

I'm far more impacted about what the sausage tastes like then how the sausage was made.

I don't want to eat a very expensive sausage that tastes like shit, even if it was ethically fair trade carbon-neutral black women handicapped veteran-owned CEO who built a LEED factory with gender-neutral bathroom, pays their employees a fair wage and gives them Indigenous Day as a paid holiday each October to celebrate Native Americans while hanging up handmade signs from employees' children that describe them as A-Maize-Ing People.

Because a shit sausage is still a shit sausage, regardless of how it was made.

If we were in court the judge would rule that your response was non-responsive and tell you to please respond to the question posed by counsel: "Is it possible that the media exaggerates Trumps personality to help fuel more divisiveness?"

Vinny

[I Shrugged]

Tom, I think Trumps personality is damaging to the policies that I support. Browbeating and bullying opponents will create a dangerous backlash and radicalization of the populace. He is tiptoing with bringing this country closer towards civil war. His style of enacting change might feel good on a visceral level but I guarantee that in the long run it will do more damage than good.

Very well put doodle. I agree. I still prefer him over Biden, for whatever that says about me. Or Biden.

[Cortopassi]

Local person selling shirts, I though this was funny.

[yankees60]

Excuse my ignorance, as a cis white heterosexual male, but why are liberals getting to emotional to vote Orangeman out?

I've heard a bunch of hypothetical things like abolishing Roe V Wade and getting rid of gay rights and getting rid of Obamacare, but none of those things happened in the last 4 years, so what makes them think it will happen in the next 4 years?

What exactly did Orangeman do that was so bad? What laws have been enacted by him to make liberals lives worse?

I'll ask you the same question I asked here many, many, many months ago.

Let's assume you created a highly successful business. It's the source of nearly your entire net worth. But now you as owner want to remove yourself from the day-to-day running of your business and want to hire someone to run it for you while you still reap the rewards of ownership and preserve the net worth that the value of your business represents.

Would you hire Trump to run your business?

All this policy discussion is, of course, important and interesting. But when we elect a president we are hiring someone to perform a job. And, that job is to run our country, to occupy the most important position in the universe (written by a U.S.-centric person).

I will not cite the reasons as I've done it several times in other posts but I find him to be completely unqualified to be president. Saying that is irrelevant to whether Biden is any more qualified or less qualified.

Trump flat out does not possess the necessary character or qualities to be president of our country. Nor the president of my company if I was the owner of that hypothetical company I earlier described.

I've many times stated that I find him to be wildly entertaining (which is why I'll watch repeatedly some of his rallies). But the role of the president is far more than Entertainer-In-Chief.

Vinny

I would absolutely hire him to run a business that I started.
He has been immensely successful in a very difficult business, namely commercial real estate, and has phenomenal negotiating skills.
Unfortunately I couldn't afford him, but otherwise I would be thrilled to have him as the President of my company, as would anyone else with any sense.

So in other words you would make president of your company someone who is a congenital, documented liar. Someone therefore not to be trusted? That's who you want to represent your company? That is the message you want to send out to your customers? Look out! I have a president of my company whose word you can never believe or trust! Sure sounds like a prime ingredient for a successful company!

Vinny

[yankees60]

When you hire a CEO, here is what you are looking for:

1) First and foremost, the CEO is really the Salesman in Chief. Sell ice cubes to Eskimos
2) Next, the CEO is the primary fund raiser. He has to be able to attract capital.
3) The world is an ugly place. For a real business, you need someone that can wade into the muck and cut deals with labor leaders, corrupt politicians, corrupt government procurement officers, front men, mobsters and petty regulatory agencies. If you think that isn't a real thing, you've never run a real business. No place for boy scouts.
4) The CEO has to understand how money works. On a visceral level. Debt, cash flow, interest, exchange rates, cost cutting, etc.
5) The CEO has to make fast gut decisions and then ruthlessly correct, segue and fire bad hires with no remorse.
6) The CEO has to rally the troops and encourage them when it looks like all is lost.

Trump is a rock star in all of these areas. Really. Try it for yourself and see how you compare.

I don't dispute your first six items for someone who is after the most money in certain environments and who has no conscience. However, I do dispute the first sentence of your last paragraph. How does one such individual end up with a billion $$$$ tax write-off?

When I worked with a highly successful business owner $$$$-wise and he was complaining about how much in taxes he was paying...I told him that that was a good thing. He should want to pay more and more in taxes because that would mean his after-tax income was going up and up and up. He understood it right away.

Vinny

This comment indicates that you are completely incompetent as an accountant. Anyone who has hired you has made a terrible mistake.

You did not keep up on all the details I have said about this so I'll give you the short version.

Make your choice:

1) Do you want your company to provide you with $30,000 in income, which then results in your overall tax return having a federal tax of $0?

2) Do you want your company to provide you with $1,000,000 in income, which then results in your overall tax return having a federal tax of $200,000.

Do you now understand? If not, I give up trying to explain it any more simply.

Vinny