Gyroscopic Investing

Kbg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:34 pm

Mark Leavy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:46 pm

Kbg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:39 pm
We are waiting I Shrugged...being against something without something you are for is generally not all that helpful in life.

At least in my life time I think, with the exception of the 2nd Gulf War and staying in Afghanistan WAY too long, US politicians of both parties have made good calls on the use of force.

So, you are younger than Vietnam? Interesting.

Nope, as a little kid I remember Vietnam and astronauts on TV constantly.

The two are nothing alike, but in one way I think Vietnam and Afghanistan are similar. Good idea initially, and stayed there way too long.

My basic take on Vietnam is that it was a product of the times and those times were the Cold War which was the context (right or wrong) for literally everything when it came to international relations.

I'll admit to two deep biases relevant to this stuff...I am rabidly anti-communist/Russian leftovers and Islamic extremist. Evil does exist and to turn a phrase of Lenin's there were (and are) a lot of useful idiots.

I also think there is quite a bit of hubris that has gathered over the years we've been a super power. I completely agree with the anti-neocons that there should be a cold hard appraisal of American interests in whatever we are contemplating getting ourselves into and where it isn't there we shouldn't get involved.

Where I disagree is they seem to have a presumption that engaging in "moral based" foreign policy/conflicts is bad or wrong. This would be a far more jacked up world if that was how the US behaved.

The Civil War, WW 2 and the Cold War I think are pretty tough to argue against as not having been worth it...and they all had a high degree of morality as a reason for getting engaged. Of course those are the poster children for "the good war" and we all know we've gotten into wars that didn't have much of that going for them. Mexican, Indian, most of the imperialist wars of the early 1900s, Gulf War 2.

Still waiting for an answer to my question, anybody?

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:41 am Korean War (Conflict?) not on either of your lists?

Kbg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:59 am

yankees60 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:41 am
Korean War (Conflict?) not on either of your lists?

Actually, my initial reply to Mark was a list of wars with a +/- next to them.

I put the Korean war in the plus column. It was the first time the democracies of the world said enough is enough to communist land grabs by force.

Unfortunately, Nazi Germany completely warps a larger perspective of history from the time Hitler came to power to the war's end. The Soviets were every bit as bad as Hitler and actually took over my territory geographically than Hitler did pre WW2.. Stalin had plans to invade Germany and wargamed it a couple of times. Hitler just beat him to the punch.

Kbg wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:53 am
Source: Stalin's War by Sean McMeekin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_McMe ... te_note-18

I was probably not very clear in my reference to "Hitler beat him to the punch." For sure the Soviets were not getting ready to actually attack Germany.

Kbg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:00 pm

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:45 pm The neocons' animating philosophy has been to remake the world a country at a time, into nations friendly to the US, by whatever means necessary.

As you can tell, I have no use for them, and I don't care if I agree with all of their other positions.

Ok, I Shrugged gets his wish and neoconservatism is out. What guides US foreign policy? Lay it out for us.

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:08 pm

Kbg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:00 pm

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:45 pm The neocons' animating philosophy has been to remake the world a country at a time, into nations friendly to the US, by whatever means necessary.

As you can tell, I have no use for them, and I don't care if I agree with all of their other positions.

Ok, I Shrugged gets his wish and neoconservatism is out. What guides US foreign policy? Lay it out for us.

<snip>

Cuba is an easier example. Both are the same type of situation though. You either continue the cold warrior approach, or you try to open things up. Nixon went to China, but we can't even buy effing Cuban cigars. Kudos to Obama for at least starting in the right direction, which Trump stopped.

<snip>

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:08 pm

Kbg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:00 pm

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:45 pm The neocons' animating philosophy has been to remake the world a country at a time, into nations friendly to the US, by whatever means necessary.

As you can tell, I have no use for them, and I don't care if I agree with all of their other positions.

Ok, I Shrugged gets his wish and neoconservatism is out. What guides US foreign policy? Lay it out for us.

Let's look at North Korea as an example. Decades ago, we should have done what Trump tried to lay the groundwork for. Work harder towards true peace and trade with them, rather than try to isolate and sanction them to death. Now they have the bomb, which complicates it but doesn't change the basic principle. If they want to be repressive communists, let em. What is the neocon plan for North Korea?

Cuba is an easier example. Both are the same type of situation though. You either continue the cold warrior approach, or you try to open things up. Nixon went to China, but we can't even buy effing Cuban cigars. Kudos to Obama for at least starting in the right direction, which Trump stopped.

We don't need US military in 150+ nations. We don't need 900+ bases. We don't need to know every time a sparrow falls to the ground in some third world country. I think there is a lot of room on the spectrum between that and "isolationism".

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:49 am
And we are a big dog. We've never been in any danger of speaking German or Russian. Unlike some of the jingoistic slogans people say.

Desert wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:05 pm

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:49 am
And we are a big dog. We've never been in any danger of speaking German or Russian. Unlike some of the jingoistic slogans people say.

As a wise man once said:

Mister Krushchev said, "We will bury you"
I don't subscribe to this point of view
It'd be such an ignorant thing to do
If the Russians love their children too

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:49 am And we are a big dog. We've never been in any danger of speaking German or Russian. Unlike some of the jingoistic slogans people say.

joypog wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:59 pm
This week's (9/2/2022) Friday G-File is a classic.

Jonah explains why Biden's campaign-speech-as-presidential-address was bad, discusses the victim mentality has expanded to also infect the right, and goes into the weeds of some right-on-right crime between the Dispatch and the Spectator.

Fun read.

https://gfile.thedispatch.com/p/rights- ... urce=email

joypog wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:55 pm
Well yeah...but given that he's a relatively recent defector from the rightwing political machine, I'll give him some allowance on overlooking the sins of the past.

yankees60 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:41 pm

joypog wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:55 pm Well yeah...but given that he's a relatively recent defector from the rightwing political machine, I'll give him some allowance on overlooking the sins of the past.

I was unaware he'd defected. When did this happen?

Thank you to Michelle Malkin for having taken a chance on me when she started Hot Air so many years ago. She made my career possible. And above all, thank you to Jon Garthwaite and Townhall Media, who stuck with me even as the GOP changed and I declined to change with it. At this point I must be the only strident critic of Donald Trump serving a pro-Trump populist readership across all of conservative media. And that’s been true *for years.* Since 2020, at least.

It was possible only because of Townhall’s sufferance, a show of integrity for which they don’t get enough credit. But I think all of us knew it couldn’t last. When you hire someone to run your hot-dog stand and he starts telling the customers that hot dogs are bad for them, that relationship won’t endure. Even if he’s right about the hot dogs.

Thank you to my critics — the earnest ones, who weren’t just axe-grinding because I wouldn’t join a cult. I am not dishonest but am frequently stupid and you were right to call me on my moments of stupidity. Accountability is good. The right needs more of it from its own side, urgently. If the average populist slobberer had a few like you in their ear, we wouldn’t be in the fix we’re in.

Lastly, to those who spent the last seven years barking insults at me in the comments for not genuflecting to Trump, I’ll give you this: You’re not phonies. You believe what you say. We have that much in common. I respect honesty and paid you the respect of being honest. It would scandalize you to know how many of your heroes sound like you in public and like me in private. Audience capture has brought most of conservative media to ruin by making it predictable and shrill.

I hear Lincoln’s words in my head as I write that: “We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies.” Let’s hope. But let’s also be real: To a certain sort of Very Online Trumpist weirdo, having the right enemies is what politics is all about. To any who insist upon having me as one, I’m okay with it. Few badges of honor shine as brightly as the scorn of authoritarians.

joypog wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:18 pm

yankees60 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:41 pm

joypog wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:55 pm Well yeah...but given that he's a relatively recent defector from the rightwing political machine, I'll give him some allowance on overlooking the sins of the past.

I was unaware he'd defected. When did this happen?

Well he didn't defect to the dem's...but he's been Anti-Trump and generally down on Trump's GOP bootlickers. He regularly comments that he sees the world a differently now that he doesn't have a natural side to support.

He's nowhere near Charlie Sykes or Bill Kristol in their Anti-Trump-so-let's-get-Dems-elected approach, but he's not pulling punches...hence the grief the he's been getting as a squishy RINOs, though the comments on this thread have provided almost nothing of substance.

(The only substantive critique I've seen on this thread is I Shrugged's attack Goldberg and French's NeoCon international policy as disqualifying of all of their other positions...which may be reasonable from a libertarian perspective but doesn't make them RINO's in any real fashion).

I Shrugged wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:56 pm

joypog wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:18 pm (The only substantive critique I've seen on this thread is I Shrugged's attack Goldberg and French's NeoCon international policy as disqualifying of all of their other positions...which may be reasonable from a libertarian perspective but doesn't make them RINO's in any real fashion).

Just to be clear, are you calling people here who support Trump bootlickers?

joypog wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:35 pm However, noone else has brought up any critiques of the Dispatch guys. One poster mentioned that right wing critics will call them various epithets but did not claim that opinion for themself, nor did they elaborate the substance of that assertion when I asked.

flyingpylon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:48 am

joypog wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:35 pm
However, noone else has brought up any critiques of the Dispatch guys. One poster mentioned that right wing critics will call them various epithets but did not claim that opinion for themself, nor did they elaborate the substance of that assertion when I asked.

I don’t read enough of their stuff to offer my own critique and I’m not interested in taking the time to do so. I don’t have a lot of time to get into debates on the internet which is why I do far more reading than posting. I was simply suggesting that the Dispatch guys do not represent all areas of conservative thought. If you’re genuinely curious you might want to include a broader range of opinions.

flyingpylon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:48 am

joypog wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:35 pm However, noone else has brought up any critiques of the Dispatch guys. One poster mentioned that right wing critics will call them various epithets but did not claim that opinion for themself, nor did they elaborate the substance of that assertion when I asked.

I don’t read enough of their stuff to offer my own critique and I’m not interested in taking the time to do so. I don’t have a lot of time to get into debates on the internet which is why I do far more reading than posting. I was simply suggesting that the Dispatch guys do not represent all areas of conservative thought. If you’re genuinely curious you might want to include a broader range of opinions.