Purposely Buying/Storing Fake Gold Coins

[Storm]

http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/min ... ail&pid=34

Thanks MachineGhost. This gives me something to think about, for example buying at a coin show and being followed home.

There's definitely a lot to be said for not storing your coins at home.  A lot of people say "well, I have a safe."  This does you no good when the thief simply holds a gun to your wife's head and says "open the safe."

[Pointedstick]

http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/min ... ail&pid=34

Thanks MachineGhost. This gives me something to think about, for example buying at a coin show and being followed home.

There's definitely a lot to be said for not storing your coins at home.  A lot of people say "well, I have a safe."  This does you no good when the thief simply holds a gun to your wife's head and says "open the safe."

All the more reason to fill him full of holes before it gets to that point. A safe's definitely not good enough; you need a dog to warn you of the danger, and a gun in case the barking dog doesn't deter them. And everybody in the house needs to be familiar with this protocol. You don't have to give up on securing your house!

[Ad Orientem]

http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/min ... ail&pid=34

Thanks MachineGhost. This gives me something to think about, for example buying at a coin show and being followed home.

There's definitely a lot to be said for not storing your coins at home.  A lot of people say "well, I have a safe."  This does you no good when the thief simply holds a gun to your wife's head and says "open the safe."

I posted this on another thread (http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... 7#msg19217) last October...

Just read most of the replies.  Very interesting discussion.  A few quick thoughts...

1. Storing any significant quantity of gold at home is ALWAYS high risk.  I don't care how fancy your security system is, how many dogs with big teeth you have, or how many firearms you keep on your person and in every room of the house.  Violent home invasion is a far more common crime than bank robbery these days.  Even if you manage to repel the attack without you or loved ones getting killed, is it really worth it?  And seriously, who wants to live in a fortress?

2. Bank robbery has gone out of style like bell bottom pants.  Serious (read smart) crooks don't rob banks anymore.  The risk reward ratio really sucks.  The incidence of unsolved bank robbery in the US is among the lowest for major crimes.  There are just too many ways of getting caught and the FEDS get involved right away.  Most bank robberies these days are done by idiots in need of some quick cash or who are trying to make a name for themselves on the street.

3. In line with #2 above the idiots who do rob banks almost never go near the safe deposit boxes, and for good reasons.  As noted in an earlier post they would need to know what was in which boxes and there are so many.  They would need sophisticated means to break into them and they would need TIME unless they knew which box(es) to hit.  Time is a luxury bank robbers don't have.

All of which said, I am a big fan of diversification.  One easy way to reduce risk is to store your physical in more than one safe deposit box at different bank branches.  The added expense is minimal.  As for gold confiscation, while I would hesitate to rule anything out, I view that as an extremely low risk.  The US is too big to undertake large scale gold confiscation without wreaking havoc on global financial markets.  Huge numbers of Americans own gold stored overseas, either directly or via ETFs.  The implications of an attempt to to seize all of that are mind boggling.  I need an aspirin just thinking about it.  Bottom line: It's not 1933 anymore.  The world and the US have changed.  And so has case law and the composition of the Supreme Court.  I seriously doubt confiscation would fly in the courts today.

Anyways that's just my two cents, which with another buck will get you a small cup of average at best coffee.

[Reub]

Or you could use your wife to warn you of a break-in and your dog to ward them off if they get past your wife. 

Hopefully she won't be seriously hurt. 

[Tortoise]

There's definitely a lot to be said for not storing your coins at home.  A lot of people say "well, I have a safe."  This does you no good when the thief simply holds a gun to your wife's head and says "open the safe."

That's why anyone storing a large amount of gold at home would probably want to have two safes: A "decoy" safe that's clearly visible and has enough cash and valuables in it to placate a thief, and a hidden safe to hold the gold stash and anything else you can't afford to lose.

For someone so inclined, there are ways to hide safes that will keep them hidden from anyone who doesn't know exactly what they're looking for. If the thief doesn't even know the hidden safe exists, the "decoy" safe with the cash and valuables is the only one he'd know about--so when he puts the gun to your or your wife's head and says "Open the safe," you open the decoy.

Would he then proceed to say "Now open the other safe"? Only if he knows about the existence of your hidden safe, in which case evidently either you or your wife has a big mouth

All that being said, I keep the bulk of my physical gold in safe deposit boxes and will likely continue to do so since that feels the safest to me personally.

[dualstow]

http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/min ... ail&pid=34

Scary article. I need to remind my 75-year-old dad that he doesn't need to announce to the guardhouse that he's expecting collectible coins in the mail.  :-\

#crime

EDIT: Here's the Washington post article referenced in the piece above.

[Greg]

I was thinking about from a cost standpoint, holding your physical gold at home is the "cheapest" option potentially. If you have a safety deposit box, you'll potentially have to pay for that and if you want insurance on that box at all.

I was wondering though, if it was worthwhile to purchase maybe an ounce of two in 1/10 oz. gold coins and having a robber safe and your real safe.

If it ever gets out through the grapevine that you have gold and that someone comes to rob you, they go after the easy "honeypot" robber safe and sees you have 20 coins in there. They might think it is a lot just due to the quantity but only would be about 2 oz. of gold. Then you could have a more secretive safe that you keep the other gold coins in.

I realize you are taking more risk keeping the gold in your house but I'm just thinking about this from a probability aspect. What is the probability of being robbed versus a potential guarantee of paying for either insurance or the safety deposit box?

[MediumTex]

I was thinking about from a cost standpoint, holding your physical gold at home is the "cheapest" option potentially. If you have a safety deposit box, you'll potentially have to pay for that and if you want insurance on that box at all.

I was wondering though, if it was worthwhile to purchase maybe an ounce of two in 1/10 oz. gold coins and having a robber safe and your real safe.

If it ever gets out through the grapevine that you have gold and that someone comes to rob you, they go after the easy "honeypot" robber safe and sees you have 20 coins in there. They might think it is a lot just due to the quantity but only would be about 2 oz. of gold. Then you could have a more secretive safe that you keep the other gold coins in.

I realize you are taking more risk keeping the gold in your house but I'm just thinking about this from a probability aspect. What is the probability of being robbed versus a potential guarantee of paying for either insurance or the safety deposit box?

You may recall that the scheme on which Truman Capote's In Cold Blood was based started with a rumor that there was a safe with some money in it.

The information that there is a safe in your home with something in it of potential value can set in motion all sorts of unpredictable events.

[Greg]

I was thinking about from a cost standpoint, holding your physical gold at home is the "cheapest" option potentially. If you have a safety deposit box, you'll potentially have to pay for that and if you want insurance on that box at all.

I was wondering though, if it was worthwhile to purchase maybe an ounce of two in 1/10 oz. gold coins and having a robber safe and your real safe.

If it ever gets out through the grapevine that you have gold and that someone comes to rob you, they go after the easy "honeypot" robber safe and sees you have 20 coins in there. They might think it is a lot just due to the quantity but only would be about 2 oz. of gold. Then you could have a more secretive safe that you keep the other gold coins in.

I realize you are taking more risk keeping the gold in your house but I'm just thinking about this from a probability aspect. What is the probability of being robbed versus a potential guarantee of paying for either insurance or the safety deposit box?

You may recall that the scheme on which Truman Capote's In Cold Blood was based started with a rumor that there was a safe with some money in it.

The information that there is a safe in your home with something in it of potential value can set in motion all sorts of unpredictable events.

MediumTex,

I just read up on your reference from wikipedia (isn't the internet awesome?)

It looks as though the robber slit his throat because he didn't have a safe there even though the robber thought he did.

If I actually had a safe there with what looks like a reasonable amount of money (if 2 oz. of gold coins then a few thousand dollars), then what is the probability that the robber would still slit my throat if they got the money and what is the probability of me surviving a throat slit?

It still seems like a reasonably low percentage, but wouldn't it be better for this scenario where they actually find gold versus if word got out you had gold, but you actually had it in a safety deposit box and they thought you kept it in your home so out of rage they slit your throat?

Ideally, I'm a big fan of keeping my throat as is, but controlling costs as well.

[lazyboy]

I was thinking about from a cost standpoint, holding your physical gold at home is the "cheapest" option potentially. If you have a safety deposit box, you'll potentially have to pay for that and if you want insurance on that box at all.

I was wondering though, if it was worthwhile to purchase maybe an ounce of two in 1/10 oz. gold coins and having a robber safe and your real safe.

If it ever gets out through the grapevine that you have gold and that someone comes to rob you, they go after the easy "honeypot" robber safe and sees you have 20 coins in there. They might think it is a lot just due to the quantity but only would be about 2 oz. of gold. Then you could have a more secretive safe that you keep the other gold coins in.


I realize you are taking more risk keeping the gold in your house but I'm just thinking about this from a probability aspect. What is the probability of being robbed versus a potential guarantee of paying for either insurance or the safety deposit box?

You may recall that the scheme on which Truman Capote's In Cold Blood was based started with a rumor that there was a safe with some money in it.

The information that there is a safe in your home with something in it of potential value can set in motion all sorts of unpredictable events.

MediumTex,

I just read up on your reference from wikipedia (isn't the internet awesome?)

It looks as though the robber slit his throat because he didn't have a safe there even though the robber thought he did.

If I actually had a safe there with what looks like a reasonable amount of money (if 2 oz. of gold coins then a few thousand dollars), then what is the probability that the robber would still slit my throat if they got the money and what is the probability of me surviving a throat slit?

It still seems like a reasonably low percentage, but wouldn't it be better for this scenario where they actually find gold versus if word got out you had gold, but you actually had it in a safety deposit box and they thought you kept it in your home so out of rage they slit your throat?

Ideally, I'm a big fan of keeping my throat as is, but controlling costs as well.

Reminds me of the famous Jack Benny routine:
A gunman goes up to Jack and says: "Your money or your life."
Benny, who is well know as a cheapskate, stares into space and stalls.
Gunman: "Well, what's it gonna be?"
Jack: " I'm thinking, I'm thinking..."

[Ad Orientem]

Reminds me of the famous Jack Benny routine:
A gunman goes up to Jack and says: "Your money or your life."
Benny, who is well know as a cheapskate, stares into space and stalls.
Gunman: "Well, what's it gonna be?"
Jack: " I'm thinking, I'm thinking..."

What kind of man was Jack Benny?

[MachineGhost]

Reminds me of the famous Jack Benny routine:
A gunman goes up to Jack and says: "Your money or your life."
Benny, who is well know as a cheapskate, stares into space and stalls.
Gunman: "Well, what's it gonna be?"
Jack: " I'm thinking, I'm thinking..."

That reminds of a skit from The Three Stooges.  I couldn't track down what I thought was said, but this might be close or another (skip to 0:55 for the start):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOyvkEIclmM