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Re: NYTimes shocked to discover that moral relativism has actual consequences

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:08 pm
by Mountaineer
moda0306 wrote: The Golden Rule has some glaring faults.  Just because I have certain moral priorities about what I would want/do in a situation, doesn't mean that it's always going to induce behavior that others might not just find morally reprehensible.
What could possibly be wrong with the Golden Rule?  Golden Rule:  He who holds the gold makes the rules.  It is just plain old crony capitalism writ large, a form of might makes right.  ;)

... Mountaineer

Re: NYTimes shocked to discover that moral relativism has actual consequences

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:50 pm
by Libertarian666
Mountaineer wrote:
moda0306 wrote: The Golden Rule has some glaring faults.  Just because I have certain moral priorities about what I would want/do in a situation, doesn't mean that it's always going to induce behavior that others might not just find morally reprehensible.
What could possibly be wrong with the Golden Rule?  Golden Rule:  He who holds the gold makes the rules.  It is just plain old crony capitalism writ large, a form of might makes right.  ;)

... Mountaineer
No, the Golden Rule I'm referring to is the one that has been expressed in many ways, none of which is equivalent to the one you cite. Rabbi Hillel's formulation is usually stated as "If something is hateful to you, do not do it to another." or something very similar to that.

Re: NYTimes shocked to discover that moral relativism has actual consequences

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:51 pm
by moda0306
Mountaineer wrote:
moda0306 wrote: Mountaineer,

HB's moral philosophy is more of a life hack towards getting what you want than adherence to external moral "truths" or assertions.  In fact, many wouldn't even refer to it as a moral philosophy.

But honesty can be defined.  Stating the truth as you know it, and sticking to your word, are the definitions (loose enough, I suppose) of "honesty."  But he doesn't say "do this or else you're evil," he says "do this and you'll attract the kind of people you want around you."


So we probably shouldn't even include HB's philosophy in conversations about morality, because he specifically chooses to define it quite a bit differently than we use it in these debates.
If I understand what you are saying correctly, it seems HB's "be honest" is more like "keep your promises" or some kind of internal honor code.  Right?

... Mountaineer
Yes, basically.

Do what you say you will do.

Be truthful about the nature of things as you know them to be.

But these things have more to do with improving your happiness than fulfilling a debt to others.  At least in his view.

Re: NYTimes shocked to discover that moral relativism has actual consequences

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:52 pm
by Mountaineer
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
moda0306 wrote: The Golden Rule has some glaring faults.  Just because I have certain moral priorities about what I would want/do in a situation, doesn't mean that it's always going to induce behavior that others might not just find morally reprehensible.
What could possibly be wrong with the Golden Rule?  Golden Rule:  He who holds the gold makes the rules.  It is just plain old crony capitalism writ large, a form of might makes right.  ;)

... Mountaineer
No, the Golden Rule I'm referring to is the one that has been expressed in many ways, none of which is equivalent to the one you cite. Rabbi Hillel's formulation is usually stated as "If something is hateful to you, do not do it to another." or something very similar to that.
Hey, I know that.  I was just kidding.

... Mountaineer

Re: NYTimes shocked to discover that moral relativism has actual consequences

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:57 pm
by Libertarian666
Desert wrote: I'm amazed at the internal moral code little kids have.  They break it often, but wow, they really do understand right and wrong, maybe better than lots of adults.
That is because the Golden Rule is very simple, regardless of how complex people would like it to be. Of course it is impossible to exhaust its possibilities, but the basic idea is within the understanding of a small child.

Re: NYTimes shocked to discover that moral relativism has actual consequences

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:59 pm
by Libertarian666
Mountaineer wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: What could possibly be wrong with the Golden Rule?  Golden Rule:  He who holds the gold makes the rules.  It is just plain old crony capitalism writ large, a form of might makes right.  ;)

... Mountaineer
No, the Golden Rule I'm referring to is the one that has been expressed in many ways, none of which is equivalent to the one you cite. Rabbi Hillel's formulation is usually stated as "If something is hateful to you, do not do it to another." or something very similar to that.
Hey, I know that.  I was just kidding.

... Mountaineer
Ok, never mind then.  :-[

Re: NYTimes shocked to discover that moral relativism has actual consequences

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:24 pm
by Mountaineer
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mountaineer wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote: No, the Golden Rule I'm referring to is the one that has been expressed in many ways, none of which is equivalent to the one you cite. Rabbi Hillel's formulation is usually stated as "If something is hateful to you, do not do it to another." or something very similar to that.
Hey, I know that.  I was just kidding.

... Mountaineer
Ok, never mind then.  :-[
Hey tech,  I'm the one with the red cheeks, not you.  My wife is always telling me that my stupid humor isn't always funny.  So, no need for the red cheeks.  You were just doing a faithful job of explaining and that I thank you for. 

... Mountaineer

Re: NYTimes shocked to discover that moral relativism has actual consequences

Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:00 pm
by Libertarian666
Mountaineer wrote:
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: Hey, I know that.  I was just kidding.

... Mountaineer
Ok, never mind then.  :-[
Hey tech,  I'm the one with the red cheeks, not you.  My wife is always telling me that my stupid humor isn't always funny.  So, no need for the red cheeks.  You were just doing a faithful job of explaining and that I thank you for. 

... Mountaineer
You are quite welcome!