Gyroscopic Investing

MediumTex wrote: From what the Old Testament tells us about God, he is exactly the kind of being that would arbitrarily sentence someone to eternal suffering.

Pointedstick wrote: Mountaineer, I'm beginning to suspect that our differing perspectives simply come from the different cosmological questions we're interested in pondering. Questions like, "Why am I here?" and "What is infinity?" and "Why do I have limits?" don't really hold much interest for me, and, because these questions, metaphysically speaking, are basically unanswerable without mythology and religion, I suppose those subjects don't really hold much appeal for me.

So no, I do not equate God with truth, probably because I am not religious. I don't even know if there is a God or not, but I do know that truth exists. Strictly speaking, I can test truth's existence for myself by simply saying aloud something like, "I speak." Within the boundaries of the definitions of the words "I" and "speak," that is a true statement by definition. So I know there is such a thing as truth. But I know of no similar method to verify the existence of God.

Mountaineer wrote:

Pointedstick wrote: Mountaineer, I'm beginning to suspect that our differing perspectives simply come from the different cosmological questions we're interested in pondering. Questions like, "Why am I here?" and "What is infinity?" and "Why do I have limits?" don't really hold much interest for me, and, because these questions, metaphysically speaking, are basically unanswerable without mythology and religion, I suppose those subjects don't really hold much appeal for me.

So no, I do not equate God with truth, probably because I am not religious. I don't even know if there is a God or not, but I do know that truth exists. Strictly speaking, I can test truth's existence for myself by simply saying aloud something like, "I speak." Within the boundaries of the definitions of the words "I" and "speak," that is a true statement by definition. So I know there is such a thing as truth. But I know of no similar method to verify the existence of God.

My daughter has seen Jesus ............ twice!  Truth?  Fact?  Believable?  My answer - Yes, I am convinced she did.  I know when, where and with whom, but not why.  Let the good times roll .... let the naysayers contribute .... Miracle?  Who knows?  There are miracles around us every day.  I have food to eat.  Water is turned to wine via a grapevine.  Hurricanes are not blowing me into oblivion.  Why and why not?  God just is - is now, was, and will be forever.  Beyond a rational mind's capability to understand.  Why?  Why not?

... M

Mountaineer wrote: My daughter has seen Jesus ............ twice!  Truth?  Fact?  Believable?  My answer - Yes, I am convinced she did.

Fred wrote:

Mountaineer wrote: My daughter has seen Jesus ............ twice!  Truth?  Fact?  Believable?  My answer - Yes, I am convinced she did.

Would be very interested in hearing more about that if you care to tell us.  I actually think these kinds of personal testimonies reflect the power of Christianity through the ages far more than adherence to Christian dogmas and orthodox beliefs about the primacy of "scripture".

(And for the record, I also had an experience of seeing Jesus at my conversion) even though I am now an "atheist" for lack of a better term.

Mountaineer wrote: First time, she was about three or four.  My wife had picked her up from day care.  She told my wife "Mom, I saw Jesus today" out of the clear blue.  My wife asked, "Where?"  She said "Sitting on top of the Burger King" which was across from the day care place.  My daughter was totally calm and factual about what she saw, no big deal, just like if she had seen most anything else.

Second time, she was a mid-teen.  She was at a friend's house.  They both saw Jesus in the upper corner of the room and a blue light.  They joined the church very soon afterwards.  For what it's worth, my daughter has/had never done drugs. 

My daughter has told very few people, probably less than a handful, about her experiences.   

... M

Fred wrote:

Mountaineer wrote: First time, she was about three or four.  My wife had picked her up from day care.  She told my wife "Mom, I saw Jesus today" out of the clear blue.  My wife asked, "Where?"  She said "Sitting on top of the Burger King" which was across from the day care place.  My daughter was totally calm and factual about what she saw, no big deal, just like if she had seen most anything else.

Second time, she was a mid-teen.  She was at a friend's house.  They both saw Jesus in the upper corner of the room and a blue light.  They joined the church very soon afterwards.  For what it's worth, my daughter has/had never done drugs. 

My daughter has told very few people, probably less than a handful, about her experiences.   

... M

I'm going to grant you having enough intelligence to not base your Christian faith on your 3 to 4 year old daughter seeing Jesus sitting on the top of Burger King even though she was totally calm when she described it to you.

I'm sure you know how silly that sounds.

Ditto in the corner of the room with a blue light when she was a teenager even though she wasn't using drugs.

Basing your faith on a strict adherence to "scripture" alone is probably your best recourse if you want to continue clinging to your beliefs but as I think I pointed out a few posts above, this is going to be even more problematic for you. The Bible is not what you think it is and I believe I can prove that to you with overwhelming evidence merely by quoting it verbatim as the very word of God you think it is.

Fred wrote: I actually gave it a go but didn't get far enough to tell you what the nature of the irreducible complexity arguments were. All I can tell you is that it started with the assertion that "evolutionists" claim that everything came about by pure chance. When I hear a straw-man argument like that I figure there is no point in continuing, especially when it's delivered in the mocking tone of the typical Christian apologist preaching to the choir (and that's what I took it for though I admittedly only listened briefly. I don't think it was a serious attempt to change the mind of someone who already believes in evolution based on scientific evidence).

rickb wrote: I suspect to anyone who does not already believe the Bible's creation story is a literal account of the origin of the earth this guy is going to come across as a lunatic.  He's apparently a scientific adviser for the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky.

My impression is with this talk he's trying to convince Christians, not anyone else, that they shouldn't believe in evolution.

Fred wrote: I was a Christian and student of the Bible for about 20 years and now that I'm no longer a believer I can't really understand how the true character of the god of the Bible never seemed to sink in. It's almost the same way I felt when I became a Christian - once I was blind, but now I see.