Gyroscopic Investing

AdamA wrote: Can anyone explain to me what happened with this in very simple terms?  I really don't understand. 

I used GTU because I felt that they were very transparent and therefor a little easier to trust than some of the ETFs.  Now I don't know what to think.

Very simply, Sprott Asset Management wants the gold in GTU, to increase their asset base, which has been depleted by a bunch of their big shareholders cashing out the gold they held. So they are soliciting the unitholders of GTU to give them proxies to vote for a change in the terms of GTU so they (Sprott) can take over the assets of GTU.

I don't like the tactics that Sprott has used, and prefer not to have their opaque management style in charge of one of my assets, so I did not give them my proxies.

Actually, it's all more or less moot to me at this point, because I sold most of my GTU anyway to generate tax losses.

So if I do nothing, GTU keeps my proxies and I keep GTU, right?  Nothing changes?

AdamA wrote: So if I do nothing, GTU keeps my proxies and I keep GTU, right?  Nothing changes?

Nothing changes unless Sprott obtains enough proxies to take over the fund.  If this happens then GTU will be merged into PHYS.

AdamA wrote: So if I do nothing, GTU keeps my proxies and I keep GTU, right?  Nothing changes?

Proxies are assignments of your shareholder (actually unitholder) voting rights. You don't have to give them to anyone unless you want someone else to vote your units, which I don't recommend.

So long as you don't give proxies to anyone, nothing will happen to you... unless Sprott collects enough proxies to vote 66 2/3rd % of the outstanding units, in which case they will take over the assets of GTU and boot out the current management. If they managed that, they would exchange your units for PHYS whether you liked it or not.

I don't see the advantage to me in that, so I wasn't going to give Sprott my proxies, but it is moot to me because I have sold most of my GTU for (mostly) unrelated reasons, as mentioned above.

(The reason it is only mostly unrelated is that the discount to NAV narrowed after the GTU trustees announced that they were going to allow unitholders to cash in at 5% under NAV, which made it more attractive to sell GTU right now.)

Ok, I have now received my third "TIME CRITICAL - MUST RESPOND" notice from Vanguard along with another Notice from Sprott!

I too like GTU and will probably stick with it (and buy more). My only reservation is giving up the "free money" eluded to earlier in this post. Sophie and MachineGhost, would you still be inlined to exchange? Others?

so, this story drags on, the discounts are ridiculous compared to NAV (which I'm ok with, I've stacked CEF recently at -12%, looking to hit a rebalancing band soon and throw some cash at GTU which sits at -6%). Surprisingly  my precious metal positions are in the green...

Can anyone help translate this article into layman's terms? Thank you in advance!
http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2 ... Trust.html

I was out of town and did not respond to the time-critical offers. Oops.

dualstow wrote: I was out of town and did not respond to the time-critical offers. Oops.

Don't worry.
1. They aren't that great.
2. They will probably be extended.

Good to know. If I do nothing, will I get to keep my PHYS by default?

dualstow wrote: Good to know. If I do nothing, will I get to keep my PHYS by default?

If the exchange offer succeeds, all GTU units will be "converted" to PHYS. Otherwise, nothing will happen to anyone who hasn't tendered their GTU units. It's not clear what happens to people who have tendered, but I can't see how it could be anything good.

BTW, I don't expect the offer to succeed.

Is there some limit to how long they can try to obtain the necessary proxies?  I'm getting tired of the mail and phone calls.

flyingpylon wrote: Is there some limit to how long they can try to obtain the necessary proxies?  I'm getting tired of the mail and phone calls.

I don't know of any time limit other than what is in the offer, which they have already extended several times.

I'm not getting phone calls, though. I think I may have gotten one, but I told them I wasn't interested.

But I may have blocked their number; I don't recall with certainty.

Do you hold your GTU in certificate form or through a broker? That may matter as far as getting phone calls.

I recently tax loss harvested back into GTU and received a Notice Of Variation by Sprott of its offer to purchase GTU in the mail today. It says that the offer remains open for acceptance until 5PM on September 18, 2015. They also sent me a printout that states, in part, that with PHYS you will get the following:

"A significant premium to the current value of your investment..."

"An investment that consistently reflects the actual price of gold."

"A safe and secure investment." (They state that they store their gold at the Royal Canadian Mint backed by Canada, not at an ordinary commercial vault.)

They sure are pushy!

Reub wrote: I recently tax loss harvested back into GTU and received a Notice Of Variation by Sprott of its offer to purchase GTU in the mail today. It says that the offer remains open for acceptance until 5PM on September 18, 2015. They also sent me a printout that states, in part, that with PHYS you will get the following:

"A significant premium to the current value of your investment..."

"An investment that consistently reflects the actual price of gold."

"A safe and secure investment." (They state that they store their gold at the Royal Canadian Mint backed by Canada, not at an ordinary commercial vault.)

They sure are pushy!

And very vague, which is a bad combination.

I notice GTU up much more than GLD and then saw this:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sprott ... 2015-09-16

Still not exactly sure what's going on. 

Why does Sprott want GTU so badly?

What will happen to NAV premium if they are unsuccessful?

based on some back of a napkin calculations, i think Sprott has already blown/spent any profits on the deal just covering the cost of paper and postage from sending information pamphlets and solicitations for support..

Since I hold this in 3 different accounts, I'm getting 3 envelopes at a time, over and over again. Maybe I should answer them, if only for the trees' sake.

EDIT: I haven't read all of this thread, but for those who are standing pat, you're still going to get mail whether you reject or accept at this point, since acceptance hasn't hit 2 thirds(?) critical mass yet. This, according to the Vanguard rep I called.

Cheers.

dualstow wrote: Since I hold this in 3 different accounts, I'm getting 3 envelopes at a time, over and over again. Maybe I should answer them, if only for the trees' sake.

same here, three accounts....   

Ha. See my edit above in red. Save you some time.
At least the recyclers will make some money this year.

I haven't gotten anything in paper.. Just electronic.. You guys should sign up for that

dragoncar wrote: I haven't gotten anything in paper.. Just electronic.. You guys should sign up for that

i am all electronic through vanguard, but this seems to all be taking place outside that system between Sprott and GTU, neither of whom i have any accounts with, as far as i know i am just a name on a mailing list to both...

l82start wrote: based on some back of a napkin calculations, i think Sprott has already blown/spent any profits on the deal just covering the cost of paper and postage from sending information pamphlets and solicitations for support..

Lol...so true. 

My mailbox is tiny, and they have to cram them in.

dragoncar wrote: I haven't gotten anything in paper.. Just electronic.. You guys should sign up for that

I get most everything electronically. Sometimes when I buy a new individual stock, I have to remember to sign up for electronic voting and annual reports. I have to say I'm looking forward to the McCormick spice one in paper because according to Josh McKennon the paper is full of fragrant spices, mmm.
I only get year-end statements from Vanguard in paper form, but these offers still come on paper. The rep on the phone didn't mention an electronic version even when I asked about stopping all the paper offers. I'll look into it, though.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/art ... 218921.htm

Central GoldTrust ("GoldTrust") (TSX:GTU.UN) (C$) (TSX:GTU.U) (US$) (NYSE MKT:GTU) (US$) today noted that Sprott Asset Management LP and Sprott Physical Gold Trust (collectively, "Sprott") have failed by a substantial margin to achieve sufficient support from GoldTrust Unitholders to complete their offer. As a result, Sprott has yet again extended their inadequate, hostile offer to acquire all of the outstanding Units of GoldTrust. They have made no improvement to the terms of their offer, which is now set to expire on October 9, 2015.

Can they just extend the offer indefinitely?

Can't wait to get more mail!

AdamA wrote: http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/art ... 218921.htm

Central GoldTrust ("GoldTrust") (TSX:GTU.UN) (C$) (TSX:GTU.U) (US$) (NYSE MKT:GTU) (US$) today noted that Sprott Asset Management LP and Sprott Physical Gold Trust (collectively, "Sprott") have failed by a substantial margin to achieve sufficient support from GoldTrust Unitholders to complete their offer. As a result, Sprott has yet again extended their inadequate, hostile offer to acquire all of the outstanding Units of GoldTrust. They have made no improvement to the terms of their offer, which is now set to expire on October 9, 2015.

Can they just extend the offer indefinitely?

Can't wait to get more mail!

What a bunch of dopes. Do they think continuously and repeatedly irritating people is going to convince them to accept a deal they don't like?