Re: Iron is Toxic, Very Toxic -- Avoid At All Costs!
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:52 pm
I ordered a gluten free pizza one time in a NY pizzeria and found that it was quite toxic. To my wallet, that is.
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Here's my action plan cliffs notes version of http://freetheanimal.com/2015/06/enrich ... thing.html:WiseOne wrote: MG, for those of us too busy to do the kind of research you do, can you give us the Cliff Notes version of what you've found out about iron toxicity?
And best to buy it vacuum-sealed and store in fridge or freezer so it doesn't oxidize. Same with whole grains.- Stop eating white rice; substitute brown rice
Scary thought: what if the minuscule health benefits from eating whole grains is actually from avoiding the fortification?- Stop eating fortified grain products; substitute oats and whole grains
I don't think anything can top calcium for virtually inhibiting all iron absorption. If one can't tolerate dairy, then 500mg from a proper supplement should certainly knock it out completely.-- Eat cheese, seafood, nuts, whole wheat, beans, mushrooms, or chocolate
IP6 works too and is less beaucratic hassle: http://www.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-I ... 00JV4NUSA/- Donate blood
Pointedstick wrote:Benko wrote: Hemochromatosis.
Kresser is one smart (and generally openminded) dude. I'd go back and listen to the exact wording of what he actually said. In men there is no easy way for the body to get rid of iron (short of donating blood).
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I thought people are constantly excreting iron through pee and sweat? Of course, menstruating women have that additional advantage here.
How do the molecular details of iron absorption help? I confess unlike GUmby and MG, I dislike reading the molecular stuff unless there is a real need.Pointedstick wrote: All right, let's get to the bottom of this.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... absorption
Thanks, TennPaGa. I don't have much time to stay around. I've actually lost my appetite for thinking about economics, politics and diet. So, don't be offended if I disappear again.TennPaGa wrote: Gumby!
Nice to see you around these parts.![]()
I don't even... what do you think about then?!Gumby wrote:Thanks, TennPaGa. I don't have much time to stay around. I've actually lost my appetite for thinking about economics, politics and diet. So, don't be offended if I disappear again.TennPaGa wrote: Gumby!
Nice to see you around these parts.![]()
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90% of the flour consumed in the US is enriched white flour. Of the 10% of wheat that is consumed as whole wheat, it's actually white flour that has been recomposed and reconstituted as whole wheat. To give you an idea of how processed that is, see this video (that was made for kids to watch):Pointedstick wrote:What exactly do you mean by "real whole wheat?" I assume you're not talking about what goes into supermarket whole wheat bread, right? Where do we find the good stuff and how do we know it when we encounter it?
I use high quality stainless steel now (the kind a magnet sticks to, not the cheap kind) and a little butter. I don't follow Ray Peat, and he doesn't always get everything right, but his article on iron (it mentions the kinds of stainless pans you want) seems to be very well researched. I think cast iron is really good for some foods, like corn bread—there's virtually no leaching from that. I don't think cast iron pans will kill you, but for me I already had too much iron and it wasn't worth it.Pointedstick wrote:And any thoughts on the issue of cast iron cookware? Does it leach undesirable amounts of non-heme iron into food?
Just a quick correction here: the kind of stainless steel that a magnet sticks to is not the expensive stuff; it's actually the cheap stuff! You're talking about ferritic 18/0 stainless steel that consists of 18% chromium with no nickel. It's actually cheaper than the more common 18/10 stainless steel that has 10% nickel in it. The addition of nickel makes it non-magnetic. I've read a lot about nickel and it's not great stuff either. You don't really want to be cooking in it.Gumby wrote: I use high quality stainless steel now (the kind a magnet sticks to, not the cheap kind)
Hmm.. I know nothing about metallurgy, but I suspect you can tell a pan that leaches by the taste. The reason why the French don't typically like to deglaze on exposed cast-iron is because it adds a metallic taste to the meal. Well, the metallic taste is your tongue's way of telling you that you don't need more of that particular metal. For instance, people with zinc deficiency cannot taste zinc, nor copper if they have copper deficiency. The offensive taste of the metal only becomes apparent when you have enough. Your tongue actually changes based on your deficiencies—it's related to why your doctor can diagnose certain deficiency-related diseases by looking at your tongue.Pointedstick wrote:Just a quick correction here: the kind of stainless steel that a magnet sticks to is not the expensive stuff
I didn't look particularly hard (since I don't have copper cookware) but I never came across anything that terrible about tin-lined copper cookware. I think it was probably ok for those who used it.WildAboutHarry wrote: The French copper pans are great too, but they are traditionally lined with tin. I am sure there are studies about tin toxicity.
Of course, too much of anything is toxic.Wikipedia.org wrote:Wikipedia: Tinware
Tinware is strong, easily shaped, solder able, and is non-toxic. In addition, it has a good appearance which can be further enhanced by lacquering it. Of extreme importance is its property of corrosion resistance, especially against attack by food products. These properties are due to the properties of tinplate, as tinware is made of tinplate
I'm not afraid of a little oxidation in my food—particularly if it tastes good. Almost anything that is supposedly terrible for you is actually good for you in small quantities (see hormesis).WildAboutHarry wrote:And speaking of the French, they have a dish (or process) called Daube, basically a slow-cooked meat stew traditionally cooked in a crockery pot. Purists insist that the pot never be cleaned, so that all the goodness (and oxidized crap) from prior Daubes will contribute to all future Daubes.
Those french fries may not be as terrible as you were led to believe.Nutritional hormesis (2007)
Hormetic acrylamide
Acrylamide is an industrial chemical also found in cigarette smoke. Acrylamide also occurs as a natural product of cooking, rather than as a food contaminant, as a result of a Maillard chemical reaction between reducing sugars and specific amino acids (e.g., asparagines within foods upon exposure to high heat). Recently, relatively high levels of acrylamide were unexpectedly detected in widely consumed food items, notably French fries, potato chips and bread. Acrylamide is a known human neurotoxin. It has been classified as a group 2A carcinogen ('probably carcinogenic to humans') by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (although the data suggesting that acrylamide may cause cancer in humans is derived from only one strain of one animal species). This has sparked intensive investigations regarding its occurrence, chemistry and toxicology/potential health risk in the human diet.
Retrospective studies on the association of cancer incidence and dietary acrylamide in Sweden (Mucci et al., 2003a, Mucci et al., 2003b, 2004, 2005) and in Italy/Switzerland (Pelucchi et al., 2003, 2006) could not provide evidence for an association between high and low acrylamide intake and cancer incidence of various organs. A hormetic effect was reported by Mucci et al. (2003a): 'unexpectedly, an inverse trend was found for large bowel cancer with a 40% reduced risk in the highest compared to lowest quartiles of known acrylamide intake,' while Mucci et al. (2003b) reported decreased risk of colorectal and kidney cancers with increasing acrylamide dose. Pelucchi et al. (2003) found no evidence of an increased risk of cancer with higher fried potatoes consumption, an important source of dietary acrylamide, and also confirmed the inverse association with large bowel cancer. A large prospective study found no evidence that dietary intake of acrylamide is associated with cancers of the colon or rectum (Mucci et al., 2006). In addition, a study of some 9000 workers exposed to acrylamide between the years 1925 and 1976 found a statistically significant decrease in deaths from all causes (Collins et al., 1989). A follow-up study of these workers through year 1994 corroborated many of the initial findings (Marsh et al., 1999).
I trust your knowledge of metals. Read that stainless link I posted in my comment and notice the vinegar taste test they did on All-Clad vs. Cheap Stainless. If you can explain why the cheap stainless tastes like metal (and I've noticed this too) then that would be helpful.Pointedstick wrote:If you use All-Clad, you actually are cooking on a stainless steel that's 10% nickel.
Before you give blood they only test your hemoglobin. They don't test ferritin levels. I've talked to the nurses there before and when I mentioned ferritin to them and its correlations with diseases they had very little understanding about it. They had no idea that there was a growing body of research linking high ferritin to chronic diseases. But it's not hard to find if you look. I think most people just think that high ferritin is like money in the bank. But, the research on ferritin suggests that it may be problematic. Either iron is leaking out of damaged cells or it's an indicator of iron in tissues. Nobody really knows.moda0306 wrote:I recently gave blood to the Red Cross. I had moderate iron levels. I asked about folks with "high" iron levels. The nurse said she barely ever sees anyone with too much iron in their blood.
Any thoughts on this?
I think he's very smart. I like him. But I think he is looking at sick people with chronic health issues and maybe extrapolating those issues and the results he finds onto others. For instance, Kresser believes that gluten is bad for you. But he cannot explain why historical medical texts overwhelmingly claimed that gluten was the most important and healthiest ingredient of any food.moda0306 wrote:Also, what are your thoughts on Chris Kresser at this point? Who else is worth following?
And research shows that iron supplements can promote gastric distress even at low doses.Solving iron’s solubility problem
However, there are two major problems [with iron supplements]. The chemical environment in the gut, particularly the rapid pH change from the acid of the stomach to the essentially neutral small intestine, as well as the presence of reducing agents like ascorbate, will promote redox cycling between the Fe(iii) and Fe(ii) states. Therefore, any iron that doesn’t get absorbed – which can be up to 70% of the content of a supplement tablet – can cause serious problems, since this redox cycling generates free hydroxyl radicals through Fenton-type chemistry, which leads to inflammation. The second problem is that any remaining soluble iron will travel to the lower bowel, where it is absorbed by pathogenic bacteria. ‘The iron-hungry pathogens can then outcompete the more favourable gut microflora,’ Pereira explains, ‘which is when you get side effects like diarrhoea.’
Hi Benko! Nice to hear from you.Benko wrote:Historical documents were talking about historical wheat which is very different from wheat today, no?
Agreed that not everyone can handle grains due to various issues.Benko wrote:Having said that, I'm suspicious of wheat for whatever reason. Personally I note that while wheat isa problem, barley (which also has gluten) is not a problem. And people with "gut issues" obviously may need to avoid one or more grains.