Permanent Portfolio Forum
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You're assuming the government has any real fear of armed citizens now other than being worried about the sideshow game of political popularity. The game rests upon Bullshit and that can evaporate at anytime.Desert wrote: Another way to look at it: Imagine what the U.S. government would do if they didn't have any fear of the citizens.
How well did that work out for stopping Saddam, Mubarak, Ghaddi and Assad from being tyrants? They had quite repressive and intolerant governments for decades. Makes us look like a walk in the park despite our petty squabbling.Pointedstick wrote: Pretend you're a repressive government for a moment. If you wanted to do those things, would you rather do it against a disarmed people, or a people who are armed to the teeth?
For the most part, Arabs accept political tyranny in a way that Western Europeans and their derivative societies do not. Different culture. Same with Africans. They just don't have the reflexive revulsion to strongman government that we do. That's not a judgement, just the truth.MachineGhost wrote: How well did that work out for stopping Saddam, Mubarak, Ghaddi and Assad from being tyrants? They had quite repressive and intolerant governments for decades. Makes us look like a walk in the park despite our petty squabbling.
I feel like that is a cop out. Otherwise the "Arab Spring" would never have occurred (I mean come on it was just one frustrated grocer setting himself on fire -- why the hell should anyone else have suddenly cared?). But you could be right about the Arab non-Millenial generations...Pointedstick wrote: For the most part, Arabs accept political tyranny in a way that Western Europeans and their derivative societies do not. Different culture. Same with Africans. They just don't have the reflexive revulsion to strongman government that we do. That's not a judgement, just the truth.
Hey, I was just poking in fun since your sig lines seem rather self-refuting (to me) since they are stated as belief; that is if you really believe it .... assuming you are intelligent which you seem to be.l82start wrote:Do i REALLY believe my sig lines? the second one... definitely.. (except that i do question it... i would hate for it to be a certitude and limit my ability to think about that aspect of existence)Mountaineer wrote: l82start,
Do you REALLY believe your sig lines?
... M
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who divide the world into two kinds of people, and those who don't.
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.”
…And the Arab Spring failed. All the participating countries are even worse off now, suffering either a different form of autocracy or endless civil war. Not enough momentum to overcome entrenched attitudes.MachineGhost wrote:I feel like that is a cop out. Otherwise the "Arab Spring" would never have occurred (I mean come on it was just one frustrated grocer setting himself on fire -- why the hell should anyone else have suddenly cared?). But you could be right about the Arab non-Millenial generations...Pointedstick wrote: For the most part, Arabs accept political tyranny in a way that Western Europeans and their derivative societies do not. Different culture. Same with Africans. They just don't have the reflexive revulsion to strongman government that we do. That's not a judgement, just the truth.
they do have a little fun with logicMountaineer wrote:Hey, I was just poking in fun since your sig lines seem rather self-refuting (to me) since they are stated as belief; that is if you really believe it .... assuming you are intelligent which you seem to be.l82start wrote:Do i REALLY believe my sig lines? the second one... definitely.. (except that i do question it... i would hate for it to be a certitude and limit my ability to think about that aspect of existence)Mountaineer wrote: l82start,
Do you REALLY believe your sig lines?
... M
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who divide the world into two kinds of people, and those who don't.
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.”
... M
but there is an important message in the second one as well, belief/certitude is mental death and tends to leave no room for new information. No doubt about it! Er...l82start wrote:they do have a little fun with logic
I'd say its arrogance not belief. I have a belief that belief is not the death of intelligence and thus it is so. Refute that!l82start wrote: they do have a little fun with logic
Only if you believe it!l82start wrote:they do have a little fun with logicMountaineer wrote:Hey, I was just poking in fun since your sig lines seem rather self-refuting (to me) since they are stated as belief; that is if you really believe it .... assuming you are intelligent which you seem to be.l82start wrote: Do i REALLY believe my sig lines? the second one... definitely.. (except that i do question it... i would hate for it to be a certitude and limit my ability to think about that aspect of existence)
... M
said the man the that this type of paradox is named after...The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
Bertrand Russell
This phrase from Wikipedia (about Russell) caught my eye:l82start wrote:said the man the that this type of paradox is named after...The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
Bertrand Russell
(Russell's paradox also known as Russell's antinomy)
it depends on functionality in time and place - for example understanding the world is round probably works pretty darn well for absolutely everything you will ever do involving the shape of the earth, but if for example you were trying to calculate the relationship between gravity and space time in some grand unified theory/string theory sort of way maybe, (and i sure can't tell you one way or the other) it might help you get there to think out side "world is round" box, but otherwise it is big box and there aren't many calls to think outside it, but many belief boxes are much smaller, not as likely to function as well all the time or under every circumstance, and how they are working out, their usefulness, their accuracy, should probably be questioned more often.Desert wrote: While I respect this statement to some extent:
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.”
I think its scope is limited. For example, am I allowed to believe that the world is round? Or do I have to continue being so open minded that I continually question that doctrine? As someone said, the purpose of an open mind is to eventually close on the truth.
