Putin Invades Ukraine II

[dualstow]

Russian soldier surrenders to grenade-dropping drone. First time? (hat tip to Scott Adams)
https://nypost.com/2023/06/14/russian-s ... ttlefield/
or
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-sol ... e-3860ab6a

[vnatale]

Russian soldier surrenders to grenade-dropping drone. First time? (hat tip to Scott Adams)
https://nypost.com/2023/06/14/russian-s ... ttlefield/
or
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-sol ... e-3860ab6a

Where is the appropriate place to respond to your ever changing signatures?

Prior to today who had known / not known who Cormac McCarthy was? Certainly not me.

[dualstow]

The Signatures thread, Vinny.
Please bookmark it - viewtopic.php?t=10280

[vnatale]

The Signatures thread, Vinny.
Please bookmark it - viewtopic.php?t=10280

Just "subscribed" to it.

[dualstow]

Wagner invades Putin…

[Mountaineer]

Wagner invades Putin…

Wagner also invaded Hitler.


https://www.biography.com/musicians/richard-wagner

[dualstow]

I thought he serenaded Hitler

from Signatures:

Until this morning I did not know at all what Wagner / Putin meant.

But after learning all about it on an excellent segment on C-Span (of course!) it seems like the answer to your current signature is that it is all over.

We’ll see how it plays out. I’m sure the Ukrainians are scrambling to take advantage of this even though Lukashenko calmed things down.

[joypog]

That was one wild weekend.

[dualstow]

That was one wild weekend.

Right? Personal journal entry:

Russians are still crazy after all these years.

[joypog]

Perun drops a great episode on the Mutiny.

https://youtu.be/tP8VPkWXOfU

[seajay]

Putin wasn't permitted to execute his prison population, so got Wagner (Russian state sponsored terrorists/mercenaries) to do that for him, recruited by Wagner as bullet fodder for the Ukrainians to execute them. Putin needed to contain Wagner however, that has massive amounts of revenues from across the likes of African ventures etc. and were a rising threat to Putin's power/control. So has shifted their power base out of Russia and into Belarus, that Russia increasingly controls.

Engineered IMO. Intentionally bombed them to deplete their numbers, withheld ammunition ...etc. such that a former 50,000 strong reduced down to <20,000, along with some Generals indicating support for Wagner should it head for Moscow, only to see that support withdrawn as Wagner headed for Moscow. Job done (extradited to Belarus).

More concerning IMO is that Putin is pushing the boundaries, testing the waters. Level entire cities using conventional weapons comparable to a slow burst nuke - NATO response being only verbal plus sanctions that don't really hurt Russia. Blow a dam, another illegal indiscriminate weapon, again just a verbal response by NATO. Next may very well be a nuclear test, blow a nuclear reactor, likely again with no real response. From there, chemical or actual nuclear weapon strikes, no boundaries, NATO perceived as being just too weak to offer any real response to Russia.

What is perhaps required is a Western gang, similar to Wagner, state sponsored aggressors, distanced from any one single state association (mercenaries/independent). That do such things as the Polonium-210 that Putin deployed in London. Or that blow up nuclear reactors within Russia. Tit for tat bullying that often is the only way to calm down a bully that otherwise gets it all their own way.

[dualstow]

…
What is perhaps required is a Western gang, similar to Wagner, state sponsored aggressors, distanced from any one single state association (mercenaries/independent). That do such things as the Polonium-210 that Putin deployed in London. Or that blow up nuclear reactors within Russia. Tit for tat bullying that often is the only way to calm down a bully that otherwise gets it all their own way.

Starring John Travolta?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0244244/

[vnatale]

Putin wasn't permitted to execute his prison population, so got Wagner (Russian state sponsored terrorists/mercenaries) to do that for him, recruited by Wagner as bullet fodder for the Ukrainians to execute them. Putin needed to contain Wagner however, that has massive amounts of revenues from across the likes of African ventures etc. and were a rising threat to Putin's power/control. So has shifted their power base out of Russia and into Belarus, that Russia increasingly controls.

Engineered IMO. Intentionally bombed them to deplete their numbers, withheld ammunition ...etc. such that a former 50,000 strong reduced down to <20,000, along with some Generals indicating support for Wagner should it head for Moscow, only to see that support withdrawn as Wagner headed for Moscow. Job done (extradited to Belarus).

More concerning IMO is that Putin is pushing the boundaries, testing the waters. Level entire cities using conventional weapons comparable to a slow burst nuke - NATO response being only verbal plus sanctions that don't really hurt Russia. Blow a dam, another illegal indiscriminate weapon, again just a verbal response by NATO. Next may very well be a nuclear test, blow a nuclear reactor, likely again with no real response. From there, chemical or actual nuclear weapon strikes, no boundaries, NATO perceived as being just too weak to offer any real response to Russia.

What is perhaps required is a Western gang, similar to Wagner, state sponsored aggressors, distanced from any one single state association (mercenaries/independent). That do such things as the Polonium-210 that Putin deployed in London. Or that blow up nuclear reactors within Russia. Tit for tat bullying that often is the only way to calm down a bully that otherwise gets it all their own way.

A fairly bleak picture that you present!

[seajay]

A fairly bleak picture that you present!

He's a bully, pushing the boundaries to see just how much he can get away with. Sanctions aren't hurting, if anything have been beneficial, promoted a even faster transition away from US controlled SETS over to alternatives, thereby considerably reducing the US's influence. Biden seems unconcerned about that, indeed has further helped by pretty much upsetting the EU and the UK. EU policies/rules have already clearly been made/changed in order to put up EU/US barriers. Here in the UK for instance we used to be able to buy/hold US funds/mutuals, but the EU put a end to that (even though the UK has now left the EU, it still automatically adopted its policies as as baseline start point). American's trying to open bank accounts in the UK/EU tend to be refused due to the rules/requirements that otherwise involves.

On the plus side I suspect Putin will avoid crossing the NATO line, so he'll either keep Ukraine in a constant state of war so it isn't permitted to join NATO, or sooner or later conquer it one way or another. Thereafter EU/Russian trade/relations will restore as-before and I suspect whatever the common BRICS style alternative to the US dollar will most likely also become a major element of EU trade/transactions. France has already cosied up to China/Yuan - seemingly sees itself as a forerunner for the rest of the EU. The EU does have its own common defence policies which may become the predominant entity, but that requires considerable more military spending before retiring from NATO. The inclination as the US loses being the prime reserve currency status will be a decline in US capacity to export inflation (print/spend on building/maintaining a massive military might).

This too shall pass, but hopefully without too much of extremes before doing so. Therein lays the risks.

Fundamentally I think its more a question of broader progressive rejection of capitalism that's demonstrated that it more serves the few. AI has the capacity to only accelerate that. The more it replaces the need for people unless the benefits are shared around !!! Likely however is that under capitalism the benefits would serve a minority.

Investing wise, and its appropriate to take a leaf out of Putin's book. Privacy. When others know where/what/how much you have its no longer yours, but a loan. As-is and the tendency has been towards increasingly the state knowing-all (where/what/how-much). Even gold that once could be buried away nowadays has visibility. Yes it can be partially hidden but becomes flagged whenever you convert to/from currency.

[vnatale]

A fairly bleak picture that you present!

He's a bully, pushing the boundaries to see just how much he can get away with. Sanctions aren't hurting, if anything have been beneficial, promoted a even faster transition away from US controlled SETS over to alternatives, thereby considerably reducing the US's influence. Biden seems unconcerned about that, indeed has further helped by pretty much upsetting the EU and the UK. EU policies/rules have already clearly been made/changed in order to put up EU/US barriers. Here in the UK for instance we used to be able to buy/hold US funds/mutuals, but the EU put a end to that (even though the UK has now left the EU, it still automatically adopted its policies as as baseline start point). American's trying to open bank accounts in the UK/EU tend to be refused due to the rules/requirements that otherwise involves.

On the plus side I suspect Putin will avoid crossing the NATO line, so he'll either keep Ukraine in a constant state of war so it isn't permitted to join NATO, or sooner or later conquer it one way or another. Thereafter EU/Russian trade/relations will restore as-before and I suspect whatever the common BRICS style alternative to the US dollar will most likely also become a major element of EU trade/transactions. France has already cosied up to China/Yuan - seemingly sees itself as a forerunner for the rest of the EU. The EU does have its own common defence policies which may become the predominant entity, but that requires considerable more military spending before retiring from NATO. The inclination as the US loses being the prime reserve currency status will be a decline in US capacity to export inflation (print/spend on building/maintaining a massive military might).

This too shall pass, but hopefully without too much of extremes before doing so. Therein lays the risks.

Fundamentally I think its more a question of broader progressive rejection of capitalism that's demonstrated that it more serves the few. AI has the capacity to only accelerate that. The more it replaces the need for people unless the benefits are shared around !!! Likely however is that under capitalism the benefits would serve a minority.

Investing wise, and its appropriate to take a leaf out of Putin's book. Privacy. When others know where/what/how much you have its no longer yours, but a loan. As-is and the tendency has been towards increasingly the state knowing-all (where/what/how-much). Even gold that once could be buried away nowadays has visibility. Yes it can be partially hidden but becomes flagged whenever you convert to/from currency.

I have nothing to add / subtract / counter this. Except to say that whatever you write on this I read it twice to make sure I don't miss any of it.

[stuper1]

A fairly bleak picture that you present!

He's a bully . . .

From the perspective of the average working-class person in Russia, your statement above about bullies sounds a lot like the USA's hubristic behavior since the end of the cold war when they had promised that NATO wouldn't move one inch eastward, and now NATO has been expanded a long ways eastward and right up to the Russian border in several places. This being the same "defensive only" NATO that was used offensively in Yugoslavia, Libya, etc. on the flimsiest of pretenses. See details here:

https://harpers.org/archive/2023/06/why ... n-ukraine/

The USA's hubris comes in thinking that it's the only great power in the world with legitimate interests. It's a nice thought I guess if you are an American neocon. Whether it's true or not is another question.

This whole Ukraine war stinks. President Orban of Hungary has it right when he says that it's a shame that Ukrainians are dying but the more support given by the USA and Europe just means that more Ukrainians die.

The USA has become an imperialistic hegemon with its militaristic tentacles spreading throughout the globe. Many people have speculated for decades on how soon the end of the American empire would come, and it seemed a lot of people thought it was far off. Maybe it's closer than we thought; maybe this Ukraine debacle will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I for one, as a native American without a drop of Russian blood in me (at least according to family lore and cheap DNA testing), would be glad to see the American empire knocked down to size and hopefully knocked back into being merely a republic, one among several great powers in a multi-polar world. I'm not holding my breath though thinking that the greedy militaristic bastards will let go their grip on power without a lot more bloodshed -- not that they haven't caused more than enough already. Lindsay Graham was beating the war drums recently, going on about potential nuclear incidents as a red line, apparently not meaning actual nuclear weapons but probably some sort of "accident" at a nuclear power plant. Get ready for another Gulf of Tonkin incident. You remember that lie, right? Just another in the long series of lies fed to the world in order to justify the American hegemon doing whatever it pleases.

[dualstow]

President Orban of Hungary has it right when he says that it's a shame that Ukrainians are dying but the more support given by the USA and Europe just means that more Ukrainians die.

Did he speak up against the invasion when it began?

[vnatale]

President Orban of Hungary has it right when he says that it's a shame that Ukrainians are dying but the more support given by the USA and Europe just means that more Ukrainians die.

Did he speak up against the invasion when it began?

Of course an excellent question!

[stuper1]

They lied about Afghanistan, they lied about Iraq, what else have they lied about:

https://scheerpost.com/2023/07/02/chris ... t-ukraine/

I'm sure we could add a bunch of other things "they" lied about, like Vietnam, etc.

[boglerdude]

I know another one! But will let vinny explain

Discussion on that article https://old.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comm ... stan_they/

[vnatale]

I know another one! But will let vinny explain

Discussion on that article https://old.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comm ... stan_they/

Can't explain when I don't know what it is.

[seajay]

A fairly bleak picture that you present!

He's a bully . . .

From the perspective of the average working-class person in Russia, your statement above about bullies sounds a lot like the USA's hubristic behavior since the end of the cold war when they had promised that NATO wouldn't move one inch eastward, and now NATO has been expanded a long ways eastward and right up to the Russian border in several places. This being the same "defensive only" NATO that was used offensively in Yugoslavia, Libya, etc. on the flimsiest of pretenses. See details here:

https://harpers.org/archive/2023/06/why ... n-ukraine/

The USA's hubris comes in thinking that it's the only great power in the world with legitimate interests. It's a nice thought I guess if you are an American neocon. Whether it's true or not is another question.

This whole Ukraine war stinks. President Orban of Hungary has it right when he says that it's a shame that Ukrainians are dying but the more support given by the USA and Europe just means that more Ukrainians die.

The USA has become an imperialistic hegemon with its militaristic tentacles spreading throughout the globe. Many people have speculated for decades on how soon the end of the American empire would come, and it seemed a lot of people thought it was far off. Maybe it's closer than we thought; maybe this Ukraine debacle will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I for one, as a native American without a drop of Russian blood in me (at least according to family lore and cheap DNA testing), would be glad to see the American empire knocked down to size and hopefully knocked back into being merely a republic, one among several great powers in a multi-polar world. I'm not holding my breath though thinking that the greedy militaristic bastards will let go their grip on power without a lot more bloodshed -- not that they haven't caused more than enough already. Lindsay Graham was beating the war drums recently, going on about potential nuclear incidents as a red line, apparently not meaning actual nuclear weapons but probably some sort of "accident" at a nuclear power plant. Get ready for another Gulf of Tonkin incident. You remember that lie, right? Just another in the long series of lies fed to the world in order to justify the American hegemon doing whatever it pleases.

Putin moved Russians into the Donbas, to then dominate school curriculum (teach Russian doctrine). TAnd then invaded in order to protect those. Emptying out all of the imprisoned 'vermin' within Russia in the process to serve as bullet fodder, as he can't lawfully execute them within Russia. A state owns all system, where individuals are given schooling, a home, a job ...etc. where dissenters have their rights such as schooling/job/home removed and are imprisoned. Something needs to keep that in check or otherwise see its spread. That said and the EU is inclined to fall into Russian/Chinese arms sooner or later. The US has already done much to alienate the EU and Britain, both of which alongside many other countries may opt to drop dollar holdings down to trade weighted levels along with adoption of whatever common alternative to SETS that others might set up. Decline of dollar dominance will lower US living standards and is I very much suspect not a future Americans would desire.

Russia has already suffered casualties in Ukraine comparable to the entire American casualties incurred during its 1960/70's involvement in the Vietnam war. But Russians have also levelled entire Ukrainian cities and deployed the likes of cluster bombs into civilian areas in the process. Along with many other atrocities. If no one confronts such practices then !!! Most Ukrainians would claim they'd rather be dead than Russian, as Russia has a long history of cruelty applied to Ukrainians. Much of NATO expansion is down to Putin himself. Finland and Sweden for instance likely wouldn't have joined NATO without Putin having invaded Ukraine. Deployment of Polonium 210 into London, where even a minuscule amount is extremely deadly. Aggression and harm that deserves a response.

[stuper1]

Dude, you need to lay off the propaganda, it's not helping your thinking skills. The eastern half of the Ukraine has been a Russian-speaking, Russian-leaning majority for hundreds of years. Putin didn't move any people in there to dominate anything. Please cite some credible sources if you believe otherwise. Pro-war British propaganda outlets don't qualify as credible sources. These are the same sources that have been lying us into wars for over 100 years going back to stories of Huns impaling babies on bayonets, etc.

[dualstow]

How about something more timely

During the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russia has forcibly transferred thousands of Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland

…

On 17 June 2023, Vladimir Putin rejected the request of a peace delegation from Africa to return the children back home, saying that "We moved them out of the conflict zone, saving their lives and health."[45]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abd ... of_Ukraine

[Xan]

stuper was responding to seajay's assertion that Russia moved ethnic Russians into the Donbass before the invasion, in order to justify it and/or make it easier. stuper was pointing out that Russians have been living there a long time.