Gyroscopic Investing

I'm looking to compile a list of all PP variables. Any points and discussions are appreciated.

So far I have these... Eventually I'd like to get a wiki going, and a googledoc with all stats (ex: dividend yield) auto-filled.

Stocks: VT, VTI, SPY, VIFSX, VGTSX, VV, ILD, VWO, VB, IVV, ACWI, FSEMX, FSTMX, FUSEX, SCHB
Gold: GLD, IAU, PHYS, GTU, SGOL, PMGOLD
LT-bond: TLT, VBLTX, EDV, VGLT, FLBIX, ZROZ, VUSTX, PRULX, FLBIX
Cash: SHY, VFISX SHV, SCHO, VUSXX, FDLXX, TUZ, FSBIX, CPFXX, BIL

Please add any I've missed and/or correct any listed above.
I think we should keep this list only to options available to all, specific funds for individual 401k options would get to cumbersome.

Checkout the draft:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... E&hl=en_US

Good list? thanks for posting.

I'd add IVV (S&P 500) and ACWI (Total world) into the Stocks list of options - these ETFs are traded with no transactions costs at Fidelity and expense ratios are pretty low.

PRULX (T Rowe Price U S Treasury Long Term Fund) for bonds.
SVPX (State Street Global Advisors S&P 500 Index Fund) for stocks.

I'm listing mutual funds instead of ETFs because there are some whose 401K plans don't allow ETFs, but may allow certain fund families.

Oops, I forgot to mention some Fidelity index funds:
Stocks: FSTMX - total stock market, FUSEX - S&P 500
Bonds: FLBIX (Long-term Treasury)
Cash: FSBIX (Short-term Treasury)

Stock: SCHB, TSP C Fund
Cash: SHV, SCH0, VUSXX, FDLXX, TUZ

Thanks all, keep em coming! I updated the OP.

What variables would be good to see in the [mostly] auto-populating spreadsheet? So far I'm thinking:

SYMBOL, NAME, TYPE (ETF, MF, CEF [closed end fund]), EXCHANGE, EXP. RATIO, DIV YIELD, EX-DIV DATE, SPREAD (or bid/ask), NO COMMISSION BROKER, STANDARD DEVIATION, ASSET SIZE, INCEPT DATE, NOTES/CAVEATS

Can anyone think of some other valuable variables to include?

UPDATED: thanks, foglifter!
Any other input? I'll be adding some more ETFs for equities and should have a googledoc spreadsheet drafted out soon.

jco wrote: Thanks all, keep em coming! I updated the OP.

What variables would be good to see in the [mostly] auto-populating spreadsheet? So far I'm thinking:

SYMBOL, NAME, TYPE (ETF vs MF), EXP. RATIO, DIV YIELD, EX-DIV DATE, SPREAD (or bid/ask), NO COMMISSION BROKER

Can anyone think of some other valuable variables to include?

Closed-end fund should be added as a type also as they have some important differences with etfs.

Standard deviation, asset size are good to know.

While you're at it, inception date.  I try to avoid brand new funds.

It would be nice to have this in a format where we could add notes to each fund.  Most of these funds have minor caveats associated with them and it would be nice to have that recorded for posterity.

PMGOLD. It's a gold ETF actually backed by the Australian government. From the Perth Mint. Traded on the Australian stock exchange. It is listed in US Dollars so there is no currency risk for US investors. I think it is the best gold ETF out there. You can also redeem shares for gold as an individual.

Posted a very, very rough draft in the OP... Check it out, and the To Do List within. Right off the bat you'll notice mutual funds are broken, they require a different feed than ETFs. Details here: http://www.amateur-invest.com/files/inv_set.ini
I wonder if this means we'll have to maintain two lists, one for ETFs and one for MFunds.

If you're a code wizard, feel free to fix everything! Can't spend any more time on it right now, but feedback and help is appreciated.

Two more cash options from akratic's thread ( http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... ic.php?t=5 ):

BIL https://www.spdrs.com/product/fund.seam?ticker=bil
CPFXX https://www.americancentury.com/funds/f ... p?fund=901

I would strongly suggest only putting in funds that match Browne's advice as closely as possible. This means broad based non specialty stock funds and LT bond funds that rely on nominal bonds. Zeroes are possible in some circumstances. But they could get someone into real trouble if used incorrectly for instance.

When I list out funds to use it's always with the idea that I don't know who is reading it and I want them to start with the most conservative options.

I think that's a good idea, Craig... Perhaps a Y/N or check column for meeting Browne's criteria?

Or a separate tab. But some of the funds need big asterisks next to them!

I added physical gold coin prices, and took a stab at fixing the dividend yields and expense ratios for mutual funds, although I used the GoogleFinance() method instead of importing from yahoo.

It'd probably be better in the long term to figure out the mutual funds import from yahoo, but I already had the things I added in my personal PP spreadsheet.

Definitely agree on asterisk, Craig!... I'm hoping we can get a wiki going with all the if/and/buts for all funds.

Thanks Akratic! Yes, the mutual funds are indeed a problem... I'm thinking that would be a logical break and have an ETF list and a MF list. Myself I am really only interested in the ETFs.

9.22 edit: Split ETF and MF to separate sheets, added 'HB ok' column... Cleaned up a little, beat head against wall trying to find a working scrape for expense ratio with no success... An importHTML scrape would work, but I haven't got it yet.

I got bored at work today and figured out ETF expense ratios.  The method I used is really brittle and used up almost all of the ImportHTML's for the sheet... but it's working!

I'm curious if there's a better way.  I just scraped the yahoo ETF profile page, because I couldn't find an easier source of the information.

Where are you headed with this list?  Do you plan to display the different historical returns of the various combinations, thinking that one may yield a better result that SHY, TLT, GLD and VTI (along with volitility and costs)?

Otherwise this is a "nice to know" kind of thing.

Please add Dreyfus 100% U.S. Treasury Money Market Fund (DUSXX):
https://public.dreyfus.com/product/0071/portfolio

It's a cash fund that user David mentioned in this thread:
http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ht ... ic.php?t=2

Cash - TSP G Fund
Stocks - TSP C (S&P 500), S (Wilshire 4500), I (MSCI EAFE) Funds
Gold - AGOL

craigr wrote: Or a separate tab. But some of the funds need big asterisks next to them!

I realize this is an old thread, but I'm currently in the process of assessing what funds to use as I start putting together my PP and would like to know if any of the funds listed on the linked spreadsheet should have the "big asterisks" next to them?

MikeK wrote:

craigr wrote: Or a separate tab. But some of the funds need big asterisks next to them!

I realize this is an old thread, but I'm currently in the process of assessing what funds to use as I start putting together my PP and would like to know if any of the funds listed on the linked spreadsheet should have the "big asterisks" next to them?

I just looked at the spreadsheet again. Any or the iShares/Vanguard fund with "Yes" in the HB OK column would be fine. That's S&P 500 or Total Stock Market. So VTI, SPY, IVV, or IWV from iShares (which is not listed). The All world index funds like ACWI or VT could be OK if you satisfied that having some international exposure is a good idea. SCHB is probably OK as well but I don't know much about it.

There are some funds listed in the stock section that should not be used and should be pulled. For instance the Emerging market index fund is not appropriate at all for anything but speculation. The Small cap funds are also speculative. These should be pulled from the spreadsheet and moved to a speculative tab or something. IMO.

Of the gold ETFs, none are really officially sanctioned, but they are better than not owning the asset if give a choice.

Of the bond ETFs, only the iShares one is appropriate. The Zero bonds are probably too volatile and they have very bad tax treatment.

Of the cash, the SHV and BIL funds are most like the Treasury Bills recommended. The SHY and SCHO funds are a little longer maturity but would also be fine for cash if you already have one year of living expenses on hand.

Here's a breakdown of what I'd do if I only wanted to use funds:

Stock - VTI, IWV, SPY or IVV

Bonds - TLT

Gold - IAU, GLD, SGOL, PHYS or GTU

Cash - SHV, BIL or SHY if you want longer maturity with slightly more risk.

craigr wrote: I just looked at the spreadsheet again. Any or the iShares/Vanguard fund with "Yes" in the HB OK column would be fine. That's S&P 500 or Total Stock Market. So VTI, SPY, IVV, or IWV from iShares (which is not listed). The All world index funds like ACWI or VT could be OK if you satisfied that having some international exposure is a good idea. SCHB is probably OK as well but I don't know much about it.

How about the mutual fund choices for bonds and cash, specifically?  Or does it not make sense to use them to save on transaction fees since one would be trading them so rarely?

I think VOO which is Vanguards SPY could also be used for stock etf.