Gyroscopic Investing

(Some of the comments are illuminating.)

The connections among "grade inflation, "tuition inflation," "college textbook inflation," and exponentially rising student loan debt are important.  Perhaps students find it easier to accept rising tuition, higher textbook prices (many selling for $200-300 now), and $25,000 in average student loan debt if they at least graduate with mostly As and a GPA above 3.0?  Even if they can't find a job, they can take pride in having "earned" an inflated GPA?

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2012/05/tod ... begon.html

That's probably true, although I felt like I really had to earn my grades.  Getting B's wasn't all that easy, let alone A's (didn't get too many of those).  This seemed to be pretty common among my peers as well.  Might just have been an engineering thing though.  Seemed like my friends in business school got a whole lot of A's (actually, that's where most of my A's came from too), and they partied even more than I did.  What's the point of getting an A if everyone else gets one, too?

hoost wrote: That's probably true, although I felt like I really had to earn my grades.  Getting B's wasn't all that easy, let alone A's (didn't get too many of those).  This seemed to be pretty common among my peers as well.  Might just have been an engineering thing though.  Seemed like my friends in business school got a whole lot of A's (actually, that's where most of my A's came from too), and they partied even more than I did.  What's the point of getting an A if everyone else gets one, too?

From "The Incredibles"


Helen: Dash, this is the third time this year you've been sent to the office. We need to find a better outlet. A more constructive outlet.
Dash: [sullenly] Maybe I could, if you'd let me go out for sports.
Helen: Honey, you know why we can't do that.
Dash: But I promise I'll slow up! I'll only be the best by a tiny bit!
Helen: Dashell Robert Parr, you are an incredibly competitive boy. And a bit of a showoff. The last thing you need is temptations.
Dash: You always say, "Do your best," but you don't really mean it. Why can't I do the best that I can do?
Helen: Right now, honey, the world just wants us to fit in, and to fit in, we just gotta be like everybody else.
Dash: But Dad always said our powers were nothing to be ashamed of. Our powers made us special.
Helen: Everyone's special, Dash.
Dash: Which is another way of saying no one is.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Incredibles

6 Iron wrote:

hoost wrote: That's probably true, although I felt like I really had to earn my grades.  Getting B's wasn't all that easy, let alone A's (didn't get too many of those).  This seemed to be pretty common among my peers as well.  Might just have been an engineering thing though.  Seemed like my friends in business school got a whole lot of A's (actually, that's where most of my A's came from too), and they partied even more than I did.  What's the point of getting an A if everyone else gets one, too?

From "The Incredibles"


Helen: Dash, this is the third time this year you've been sent to the office. We need to find a better outlet. A more constructive outlet.
Dash: [sullenly] Maybe I could, if you'd let me go out for sports.
Helen: Honey, you know why we can't do that.
Dash: But I promise I'll slow up! I'll only be the best by a tiny bit!
Helen: Dashell Robert Parr, you are an incredibly competitive boy. And a bit of a showoff. The last thing you need is temptations.
Dash: You always say, "Do your best," but you don't really mean it. Why can't I do the best that I can do?
Helen: Right now, honey, the world just wants us to fit in, and to fit in, we just gotta be like everybody else.
Dash: But Dad always said our powers were nothing to be ashamed of. Our powers made us special.
Helen: Everyone's special, Dash.
Dash: Which is another way of saying no one is.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Incredibles

Reminds me of the Rush song "The Trees."

6 Iron wrote: From "The Incredibles"


Helen: Dash, this is the third time this year you've been sent to the office. We need to find a better outlet. A more constructive outlet.
Dash: [sullenly] Maybe I could, if you'd let me go out for sports.
Helen: Honey, you know why we can't do that.
Dash: But I promise I'll slow up! I'll only be the best by a tiny bit!
Helen: Dashell Robert Parr, you are an incredibly competitive boy. And a bit of a showoff. The last thing you need is temptations.
Dash: You always say, "Do your best," but you don't really mean it. Why can't I do the best that I can do?
Helen: Right now, honey, the world just wants us to fit in, and to fit in, we just gotta be like everybody else.
Dash: But Dad always said our powers were nothing to be ashamed of. Our powers made us special.
Helen: Everyone's special, Dash.
Dash: Which is another way of saying no one is.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Incredibles

One of the greatest movies ever made, it really is.

Foods have inflation.
Grades have inflation too.

I wonder what Mr. Blutasky's GPA would be if he were in school today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmtOkAvqAPk

11 secs.

American higher education is in the cross hairs of a heated national debate over the value and cost of a college degree. Yet in China, our fiercest global economic competitor, the popularity of American colleges and universities might be at an all-time high.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/31/opini ... index.html

MachineGhost wrote: American higher education is in the cross hairs of a heated national debate over the value and cost of a college degree. Yet in China, our fiercest global economic competitor, the popularity of American colleges and universities might be at an all-time high.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/31/opini ... index.html

Unlike in U.S. and Europe, they don't teach you how to think and innovate in Asian countries.

hoost wrote: That's probably true, although I felt like I really had to earn my grades.  Getting B's wasn't all that easy, let alone A's (didn't get too many of those).  This seemed to be pretty common among my peers as well.  Might just have been an engineering thing though.  Seemed like my friends in business school got a whole lot of A's (actually, that's where most of my A's came from too), and they partied even more than I did.  What's the point of getting an A if everyone else gets one, too?

Hoost,

I didn't know you were an engineer. I got my bachelors and masters in mechanical. I did feel like that way the same though with many other majors (as a general statement). I went to a party school (Penn State) for my undergrad and many a night I'd remember coming out of the computer labs at 1 or 2 in the morning and when walking about to my apartment I'd still see people trying to get IN to the nightclubs. It was Wednesday!

Either I'm terrible at budgeting my time for studying and other activities or something is running afoul.

I got mostly As in college and learned a little (I was a liberal arts major--I know it's a different story for engineering, math, etc. majors).  I did enjoy the intellectual experience, but it wasn't a mentally jarring experience.

I got Bs and Cs in law school and learned a LOT.  I did not enjoy it much, but it was sort of like mental power lifting--the rush from the "pump" was fun.  I definitely felt like I left the experience with a stronger mind than I brought to it.  I was fortunate to attend a top law school, and although the curriculum at all law schools is basically the same, the quality of the students at top law schools is pretty impressive (some of those people are absolutely brilliant).  I was NOT a top student, but it was fun to be around such a concentration of intellectual horsepower.

It should be hard to get a good grade.  There should be frustration, exasperation, insecurity and maybe a little crying.

I would certainly agree there was a lot of frustration in getting good grades. That's one of the things I have loved and hated about academia. I would get more stressed out about stuff like that but at the end of the semester and you see that A, you feel like it was all worth it. Then again various courses are more/less difficult than others so everything is relative when getting that "good" grade in a class.

1NV3ST0R wrote: I would certainly agree there was a lot of frustration in getting good grades. That's one of the things I have loved and hated about academia. I would get more stressed out about stuff like that but at the end of the semester and you see that A, you feel like it was all worth it. Then again very courses are more/less difficult than others so everything is relative when getting that "good" grade in a class.

One of the things that kind of sucks about formal education is the fear and anxiety that can go along with tests.  People simply don't do their best work when they are nervous or anxious, and tests ought to provide students with a way of really doing their best work.

If I was the professor, I would do tests in the form of an 8 hour take home exam.  This format allows students to really think about their answers, organize them well, type it on a computer and reflect a bit on what they have written.

MediumTex wrote:

1NV3ST0R wrote: I would certainly agree there was a lot of frustration in getting good grades. That's one of the things I have loved and hated about academia. I would get more stressed out about stuff like that but at the end of the semester and you see that A, you feel like it was all worth it. Then again very courses are more/less difficult than others so everything is relative when getting that "good" grade in a class.

One of the things that kind of sucks about formal education is the fear and anxiety that can go along with tests.  People simply don't do their best work when they are nervous or anxious, and tests ought to provide students with a way of really doing their best work.

If I was the professor, I would do tests in the form of an 8 hour take home exam.  This format allows students to really think about their answers, organize them well, type it on a computer and reflect a bit on what they have written.

MediumTex,

I totally agree with you on this. I guess from the professor's standpoint though, they want to have a fast (2-3 hours) way of determining how much people have learned in order to separate the wheat from the chaff. I also think they might do this just from the cheating aspects even though most schools have academic integrity items you need to sign. All in all I understand why they do it that way but that doesn't mean I like it at all.

Along those same lines, I feel as though testing is a terrible way to show what I have learned and I end up cramming anyways so not a really "good" learning experience either. That's why I much more of a fan of larger portions of the grades that are homework/project based. I remember a few courses in grad school where I might spend 40-50 hours on a homework assignment even doing it with other people. I'll certainly remember that information far better than I would cramming a night for a test the next morning.

Just my two lincolns.

1NV3ST0R wrote: I didn't know you were an engineer. I got my bachelors and masters in mechanical. I did feel like that way the same though with many other majors (as a general statement). I went to a party school (Penn State) for my undergrad and many a night I'd remember coming out of the computer labs at 1 or 2 in the morning and when walking about to my apartment I'd still see people trying to get IN to the nightclubs. It was Wednesday!

Either I'm terrible at budgeting my time for studying and other activities or something is running afoul.

I still am an engineer (well, sort of; I'm actually more of a technician now).  ;D  I got my bachelors in mechanical and went to work right after.  I would normally budget my time such that I could leave the computer lab at midnight and meet my friends at the bar where I'd hang out until 2.  When I went into school my goal was to maintain a B average and have as much fun as possible.  I feel like I succeeded at both (this is also the reason I had a lot of debt to pay off afterward).  To me, getting A's wasn't worth the additional time investment; I knew I didn't want to get a PhD or anything, and I didn't see any difference in starting salaries between A's and B's.

MediumTex wrote: One of the things that kind of sucks about formal education is the fear and anxiety that can go along with tests.  People simply don't do their best work when they are nervous or anxious, and tests ought to provide students with a way of really doing their best work.

If I was the professor, I would do tests in the form of an 8 hour take home exam.  This format allows students to really think about their answers, organize them well, type it on a computer and reflect a bit on what they have written.

I think a lot of this depends on the type of job you're going to pursue.  For me, I was always a better test-taker.  If my classes had been graded only on tests I would have done a lot better.  I wasn't willing to put in the extra time to get a perfect score on my homework, but since tests had more weight I would normally study hard in the day (or hours) preceding the test to make sure I would be successful [enough].  Although, now that I think about it, maybe I wouldn't have done as well.  I had some classes where homework wasn't mandatory, and a lot of the time I wouldn't do it.  (Although, when it came to crunch time, I usually studied my back-side off and pulled out an acceptable grade, so maybe that's true.)  Lo-and-behold, I wound up with a job that requires me to think on my feet and make critical decisions quickly under pressure.  I guess we tend to gravitate toward what we're good at.  If I have too much time to think about something, I wind up going in circles (read some of the threads I'm actively involved in  :) ) and can't make a decision.  

MediumTex wrote: I got Bs and Cs in law school and learned a LOT.  I did not enjoy it much, but it was sort of like mental power lifting--the rush from the "pump" was fun.  I definitely felt like I left the experience with a stronger mind than I brought to it.  I was fortunate to attend a top law school, and although the curriculum at all law schools is basically the same, the quality of the students at top law schools is pretty impressive (some of those people are absolutely brilliant).  I was NOT a top student, but it was fun to be around such a concentration of intellectual horsepower.

Law school is one of those things I've contemplated a lot.  I just wonder whether or not it's something I'd want to do as a career.  Right now, studying law and economics are sort of hobbies for me; I enjoy them, but maybe I enjoy them because I don't have to practice it every day.

Too bad in TX you have to have a law degree to take the bar (AFAIK); otherwise, I might be inclined to study up and try to take it for fun (this is unlikely, but a nice pipe dream ).

1NV35T0R wrote: Either I'm terrible at budgeting my time for studying and other activities or something is running afoul.

My problem was always that I over-extended myself, so I had no other choice but to manage my time properly.  I've become better at not over-extending myself, but now I manage my time so well that I have nothing else to do, and I try to avoid wasting money.  I guess that's why I end up posting on this forum so much.  :)  I view it as a free education.

hoost wrote: I think a lot of this depends on the type of job you're going to pursue.  For me, I was always a better test-taker.  If my classes had been graded only on tests I would have done a lot better.  I wasn't willing to put in the extra time to get a perfect score on my homework, but since tests had more weight I would normally study hard in the day (or hours) preceding the test to make sure I would be successful [enough].  Although, now that I think about it, maybe I wouldn't have done as well.  I had some classes where homework wasn't mandatory, and a lot of the time I wouldn't do it.  (Although, when it came to crunch time, I usually studied my back-side off and pulled out an acceptable grade, so maybe that's true.)  Lo-and-behold, I wound up with a job that requires me to think on my feet and make critical decisions quickly under pressure.  I guess we tend to gravitate toward what we're good at.  If I have too much time to think about something, I wind up going in circles (read some of the threads I'm actively involved in  :) ) and can't make a decision.  

I'd agree regarding we gravitate to what we are good at. From my perspective (and one of the reasons I went for my masters), was that I really enjoyed spending a lot of time trying to understand a problem. The better I understood a problem, the more I felt I learned. I especially felt this way regarding my thesis research since you spend 2+ years on a project and know all the ins and outs of it by the end and have to build a lot and learn a lot on the way.

For me, tests that take a long time or weighting heavier for homework is more beneficial to me and I feel I soak in more material. From a grade standpoint, I also like this more because of this control system thought process:

Homework:  effort in = good grade out
Test: effort in + luck = good grade out

I'm not a fan of my test-taking "luck" and whether what they are testing me on just happened to be the part that I didn't understand as clearly as everything else. But that's just me.

My problem was always that I over-extended myself, so I had no other choice but to manage my time properly.  I've become better at not over-extending myself, but now I manage my time so well that I have nothing else to do, and I try to avoid wasting money.  I guess that's why I end up posting on this forum so much.  :)  I view it as a free education.

I do really enjoy the free education here a lot. I feel like my brain is slowly growing bigger everyday (not physically, that'd kill me, but metaphorically).

MediumTex wrote: It should be hard to get a good grade.  There should be frustration, exasperation, insecurity and maybe a little crying.

This is so very true.  And the grade should be less important than the experience and the education. 

For me, getting good at something usually means making a commitment to it, and being very bad at it for a long period of time.  If you're obsessed with a grade, it's hard to put yourself out there and be comfortable with screwing up for the sake of experience. 

AdamA wrote:

MediumTex wrote: It should be hard to get a good grade.  There should be frustration, exasperation, insecurity and maybe a little crying.

This is so very true.  And the grade should be less important than the experience and the education. 

For me, getting good at something usually means making a commitment to it, and being very bad at it for a long period of time.  If you're obsessed with a grade, it's hard to put yourself out there and be comfortable with screwing up for the sake of experience. 

I find that the grade orientation often carries over into other parts of people's lives as they grow older.  It generally manifests itself in the form of a "what's the minimum?" mentality that probably started in school when they were conditioned to believe that the purpose of the exercise was to get through with the least possible amount of effort.

I talk to people about fiduciary duty a lot and occasionally conduct fiduciary duty training.  One of the recurring themes that I hear in this area is basically "What's the minimum level of effort as a fiduciary that will keep me from getting sued?"  I always answer with something like "What would your wife say if you asked her about the minimum level of love she would accept in order to avoid filing for divorce?"

The way the question is framed makes it clear that the person asking it is not grasping the nature of the activity.  There are some things in life that require a level of concentration and engagement that doesn't make any sense when expressed in terms of "minimums."