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Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:53 am
by WildAboutHarry
NPR wrote:This isn't as random as it seems; more than half of Germany's gold reserves are held at the New York Fed, and hasn't been inspected by the Germans for decades.
See the rest
here.
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:22 pm
by Reub
And what if their vault is empty?
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:43 pm
by Tortoise
So over the next three years, 150 tons of German gold will be shipped back to Germany for inspection.
What's the point of shipping all of that gold over to Germany, only to ship it all the way back to New York after it's inspected? Why not just inspect it in-place in New York and save the shipping and armed escort costs?
If it's because they intend to do some fairly sophisticated purity testing in Germany that they would be unable to do in the Fed's vault, why don't they just randomly select a much smaller representative sample for purity testing rather than testing all 150 tons?
Governments always do things the hard way...
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:04 pm
by WildAboutHarry
Reub wrote:And what if their vault is empty?
Or filled with Tungsten?
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:53 pm
by craigr
Tortoise wrote:
So over the next three years, 150 tons of German gold will be shipped back to Germany for inspection.
What's the point of shipping all of that gold over to Germany, only to ship it all the way back to New York after it's inspected? Why not just inspect it in-place in New York and save the shipping and armed escort costs?
Maybe they intend to keep it there? I would. Maybe they are thinking the Euro isn't going to last so maybe it's better off being in German vaults than out of their control? Or maybe they are worried about US future situations as well? Hard to say. But if it was me, I'd want it in my own vaults under my own government's control.
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:59 pm
by Ad Orientem
Holding your country's gold in your own territory is certainly much safer under normal circumstances. I do understand why it was moved during the cold war. If I had 20 heavy armored divisions sitting on my frontier I'd do a little geographic diversifying too. But that situation is now past.
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:47 pm
by murphy_p_t
"In the next three years, we will repatriate 50 tonnes of gold annually from New York to Germany. That will give us the opportunity to inspect these bars, melt them down and convert them into “Good Delivery Standard”? bars."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-2 ... d-and-isnt
no mention of returning the metal to new york
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:56 am
by Tortoise
WildAboutHarry wrote:
NPR wrote:This isn't as random as it seems; more than half of Germany's gold reserves are held at the New York Fed, and hasn't been inspected by the Germans for decades.
See the rest
here.
The gold reserve rankings by country in that article got me thinking that a more interesting (and "fairer") ranking might be per capita gold reserves by country. So I pulled up the data from the World Gold Council and divided each country's gold reserves by its population. (Note that the list below doesn't include personal gold investments and jewelry--only government reserves.)
Interestingly, the UK has reserves of only 0.15 troy ounces per capita and Canada has even less--only
0.0028 troy ounces per capita. I wonder what the story is there?
Top 10 Countries in Per Capita Gold Reserves
Country Per Capita Gold Reserves (troy ounces)
Switzerland 3.79
Lebanon 1.98
Germany 1.21
Italy 1.18
France 1.09
Netherlands 1.07
Portugal 1.06
Austria 0.97
Aruba 0.89
United States 0.75
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:14 am
by stone
tortoise
Interestingly, the UK has reserves of only 0.15 troy ounces per capita and Canada has even less--only 0.0028 troy ounces per capita. I wonder what the story is there?
In the UK case, I think this dates from the "Brown Bottom" sell off in 1999 when Gordon Brown saved banks who had borrowed the UK gold reserves to sell them short and then were unable to buy them back. The UK government sold them off so that those insolvent short positions could be liquidated.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.co ... -sold.html
Telegraph UK
Revealed: why Gordon Brown sold Britain's gold at a knock-down price
By Thomas Pascoe
5 July 2012
A great deal of Gordon Brown’s economic strategy would strike a sane man as troubling. Not a great deal was mysterious. The orgy of consumption spending, frequent extensions of the cycle over which he would “borrow to invest”?, proclamations of the “end of boom and bust”?: these are part of the armoury of modern politicians, of all political hues.
One decision stands out as downright bizarre, however: the sale of the majority of Britain’s gold reserves for prices between $256 and $296 an ounce, only to watch it soar so far as $1,615 per ounce today.
When Brown decided to dispose of almost 400 tonnes of gold between 1999 and 2002, he did two distinctly odd things.
First, he broke with convention and announced the sale well in advance, giving the market notice that it was shortly to be flooded and forcing down the spot price. This was apparently done in the interests of “open government”?, but had the effect of sending the spot price of gold to a 20-year low, as implied by basic supply and demand theory.
Second, the Treasury elected to sell its gold via auction. Again, this broke with the standard model. The price of gold was usually determined at a morning and afternoon "fix" between representatives of big banks whose network of smaller bank clients and private orders allowed them to determine the exact price at which demand met with supply.
The auction system again frequently achieved a lower price than the equivalent fix price. The first auction saw an auction price of $10c less per ounce than was achieved at the morning fix. It also acted to depress the price of the afternoon fix which fell by nearly $4.
It seemed almost as if the Treasury was trying to achieve the lowest price possible for the public’s gold. It was.
One of the most popular trading plays of the late 1990s was the carry trade, particularly the gold carry trade.
In this a bank would borrow gold from another financial institution for a set period, and pay a token sum relative to the overall value of that gold for the privilege.
Once control of the gold had been passed over, the bank would then immediately sell it for its full market value. The proceeds would be invested in an alternative product which was predicted to generate a better return over the period than gold which was enduring a spell of relative price stability, even decline.
At the end of the allotted period, the bank would sell its investment and use the proceeds to buy back the amount of gold it had originally borrowed. This gold would be returned to the lender. The borrowing bank would trouser the difference between the two prices.
This plan worked brilliantly when gold fell and the other asset – for the bank at the heart of this case, yen-backed securities – rose. When the prices moved the other way, the banks were in trouble.
This is what had happened on an enormous scale by early 1999. One globally significant US bank in particular is understood to have been heavily short on two tonnes of gold, enough to call into question its solvency if redemption occurred at the prevailing price.
Goldman Sachs, which is not understood to have been significantly short on gold itself, is rumoured to have approached the Treasury to explain the situation through its then head of commodities Gavyn Davies, later chairman of the BBC and married to Sue Nye who ran Brown’s private office.
Faced with the prospect of a global collapse in the banking system, the Chancellor took the decision to bail out the banks by dumping Britain’s gold, forcing the price down and allowing the banks to buy back gold at a profit, thus meeting their borrowing obligations.
I spoke with Peter Hambro, chairman of Petroplavosk and a leading figure in the London gold market, late last year and asked him about the rumours above.
“I think that Mr Brown found himself in a terrible position,”? he said.
“He was facing a problem that was a world scale problem where a number of financial institutions had become voluntarily short of gold to the extent that it was threatening the stability of the financial system and it was obvious that something had to be done.”?
While the market manipulation which occurred when the gold reserves were sold was not illegal as the abuse at Barclays may have been, the moral atmosphere in which it took place was identical.
The crash which began in 2007 and endures still was the result of an abdication of responsibility across the financial sector. This abdication ranged from the consumer whose thirst for goods pushed him beyond into grave debt to a government whose lust for popularity encouraged it to do the same.
Responsibility is evaded by all bar those on whose shoulders it ought to rest. The gold panic of 1999 was expensively paid for by the British public. The one thing politicians ought to have bought with that money was a lesson in the structural restraints which needed to be placed on banks now that the principle that they were ultimately public liabilities had been established.
It was a lesson which could have acted to restrain all players in the credit market boom of the 2000s. It was a lesson which nobody learnt.
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:19 pm
by Ad Orientem
So basically anyone who was either an incredibly savvy or lucky investor in 1999 and who happened to be long gold and short the particular bank in question got murdered by the intervention of the British Government.
Reason # 4712 why the future is unpredictable and the best laid plans can, and frequently do, blow up. Or more simply, why I like the PP.
Re: Germany Verifying Gold Reserves
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:23 pm
by murphy_p_t
being long gold (w/ out leverage) has worked pretty well for the past decade
