Gyroscopic Investing

...because the PP is treading water?

Probably because talking about other things is more interesting than watching a portfolio that many here have analyzed every which way possible.

EDIT: Not sure what you mean by treading water. I just took a look thinking that maybe something happened and I missed it and Morningstar is showing a little over 7% YTD.

Perhaps "treading water" referred to the PP's October performance? I feel no reason to complain. My PP investments are down 0.33% this month, which is way better than the broad market's 1.98% decline during the same time period.

I think it's natural. I've spent time on numerous other forums that have a central theme, but the "lounge" area gets a lot of posts when the seasoned members become familiar with each other and want to share the same kinds of things they post on facebook or g+.

What I want to know is, what % of the Other section consists of MG's threads.  ;) And that's not a dig, MG. I enjoy your topics and read similar things at Ray Kurzweil's AI website.

If there were as many interesting things to say about the PP as there are about all of the "Other" topics in the whole universe, I would expect more PP-related threads.

I think, though, that the PP is a manifestation of a certain worldview, and I see echoes of this worldview in many of the "Other" category discussions.

MediumTex wrote: I think, though, that the PP is a manifestation of a certain worldview, and I see echoes of this worldview in many of the "Other" category discussions.

What worldview is that?

do it your self (DYS) seems to be one underlying worldview that fits many of our topics... including the PP

MachineGhost wrote:

MediumTex wrote: I think, though, that the PP is a manifestation of a certain worldview, and I see echoes of this worldview in many of the "Other" category discussions.

What worldview is that?

Skepticism of authority

Humility about grand world-changing plans

Realism about the flaws in human nature

Recognition of the transitory nature of all human institutions

Appreciation of reasoned discussion and leather chaps

***

That kind of stuff.

I think many of us are finally realizing the real benefit of the PP: peace of mind.

This peace of minds allows us to expand our field of knowledge/interest into uncharted territory, through the "Other" section.

melveyr wrote: I think many of us are finally realizing the real benefit of the PP: peace of mind.

This peace of minds allows us to expand our field of knowledge/interest into uncharted territory, through the "Other" section.

I couldn't have said better. I'm looking at the last few years and actually can't help feeling surprised by this peace of mind. From daily portfolio checks I slowly progressed to hardly ever looking at my PP.

foglifter wrote:

melveyr wrote: I think many of us are finally realizing the real benefit of the PP: peace of mind.

This peace of minds allows us to expand our field of knowledge/interest into uncharted territory, through the "Other" section.

I couldn't have said better. I'm looking at the last few years and actually can't help feeling surprised by this peace of mind. From daily portfolio checks I slowly progressed to hardly ever looking at my PP.

I think about Plato's allegory of the cave when this topic comes up.

Plato lets Socrates describe a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Plato's Socrates, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.

LINK

From my perspective, most investors are like the people chained to the wall of the cave, and Wall Street preys on their fear of the unknown and desire to understand the nature of the shadows they are observing in the form of the markets.

What I think that the PP offers is an opportunity to realize that the shadows on the wall of the cave don't mean anything, and any explanation offered concerning the meaning of the shadows should lead to two conclusions: (1) The person offering the interpretation of the shadows is also likely chained to the wall, and (2) The person offering the interpretation hasn't seriously considered the idea that the shadows are meaningless.

One insight that I find embedded in the allegory of the cave is that many people who never would have been destined to be chained to the wall in the first place can become prisoners as a result of their own pathological obsession with understanding meaningless shadows and yearning for someone who can explain this imaginary meaning to them.

If you think about it, the allegory of the cave is a ready framework for every huckster and con man in history: He finds an area of life filled with mystery, he offers an explanation that seems plausible but requires people to give him money, and then he obfuscates things as much as possible so that he is never actually held accountable for any of his explanations.  Sound familiar?

A few contrarian thoughts to put this in balance (please do not take offense):
1. Although I largely agree with the posts above, and I love this forum, I think we should be cautious in being too self-congratulatory. It is easy to preach to the choir. I can imagine folks of differing opinion reading some of the threads and posts on this forum (including some of my own) and saying, "Wow, what a bunch of angry, online addicted, rigidly thinking, mortality fearing, gun loving, HB worshiping, libertarian lunatics."
2. Although I really enjoy (and learn a ton from) many of the "other" category posts, I do get the feeling that they are growing in proportion to the investing threads/posts. Nothing wrong with that; it's just not about investing. IMO, a year or so ago, there was a lot more investing information to be gleaned (iBonds, buying gold, LTTs through Fidelity, etc). Possible reasons for this could be that we have exhausted a lot of topics, they have now been summarized and published, or interests have wandered.
3. To support the last hypothesis, consider this: I posted two things at similar times: what guns do you recommend, and a question about buying LTTs (on Gumby's treasury buying tutorial). The former got 82 replies. The latter 0. Not a totally fair comparison, but it does show to a degree where our passions are.
Thoughts?

Where else can you discuss lard and Taoism?

WildAboutHarry wrote: Where else can you discuss lard and Taoism?

The closest I've seen is the sequel to the Tao of Pooh, 'The Te of Piglet.'  ;)

BearBones, I get your point, but it seems harmless as long as the other posts are relegated to, well, Other.
And, there are many more firearms than there are ways to buy long-term treasurys.
Seriously, though, I noticed the survivalist flavor pervading this place on day one, but I took the time to read the investing part. Glad I did. The same people who might be turned off by gold might be turned off by the Other section, but too bad for them if they turn around and invest in a couple fly-by-night tech stocks.

BearBones wrote: A few contrarian thoughts to put this in balance (please do not take offense):
1. Although I largely agree with the posts above, and I love this forum, I think we should be cautious in being too self-congratulatory. It is easy to preach to the choir. I can imagine folks of differing opinion reading some of the threads and posts on this forum (including some of my own) and saying, "Wow, what a bunch of angry, online addicted, rigidly thinking, mortality fearing, gun loving, HB worshiping, libertarian lunatics."

I always tell people that the PP (or any other investment strategy) has to make sense to them.  Don't take our word for it.  Look into it for yourself, and if you find that it makes sense, consider using it with your own money.

I like to think that I test the PP against reality every day, and so far it has held up well.  So many people have had such frustrating experiences as an investor prior to finding the PP (myself included) that it's hard not to express your excitement and happiness when you finally find something that works for you.

I think that if your handle was "BullBones" you might not enjoy some of the wacky stuff here quite as much, though I always try to guide things in the direction of courtesy and topics that are interesting and stimulating, no matter what the subject is.  I have found few places on the internet quite like this one and maybe it is a little addictive, but I don't think there are too many angry people here.

2. Although I really enjoy (and learn a ton from) many of the "other" category posts, I do get the feeling that they are growing in proportion to the investing threads/posts. Nothing wrong with that; it's just not about investing. IMO, a year or so ago, there was a lot more investing information to be gleaned (iBonds, buying gold, LTTs through Fidelity, etc). Possible reasons for this could be that we have exhausted a lot of topics, they have now been summarized and published, or interests have wandered.

But remember, all of those topics are still there.  Anyone can read them who is interested in learning more about the strategy. 

3. To support the last hypothesis, consider this: I posted two things at similar times: what guns do you recommend, and a question about buying LTTs (on Gumby's treasury buying tutorial). The former got 82 replies. The latter 0. Not a totally fair comparison, but it does show to a degree where our passions are.
Thoughts?

Ironically, I think that stickied threads are often the most easily overlooked.  I hadn't seen the questions, but I just posted a reply to them.

dualstow wrote: Seriously, though, I noticed the survivalist flavor pervading this place on day one, but I took the time to read the investing part. Glad I did. The same people who might be turned off by gold might be turned off by the Other section, but too bad for them if they turn around and invest in a couple fly-by-night tech stocks.

I think survivalism and firearms actually have a lot to do with the philosophy of the HBPP: they're all about resiliency and self-reliance in the face of uncertainty. The HBPP is a financial portfolio that will let you weather all kinds of economic storms, while the survivalist ethos is simply a more physical manifestation of the very same impulses, and firearms are one example of a tool you can use to do it (25% of your survivalist portfolio, dare I say?). Early retirement, nutrition, medicine, and other common topics around here similarly echo these desires to have more control over our own lives.

I haven't been an active reader of the Other Discussions category until before a couple months ago and here's why: I completed my transition to PP about 3 years ago and as you can imagine, as a novice PP faithful I was still kind of uneasy and still spent a lot of time reading investing-related stuff here and on BH up until this summer. But 2011 and so far 2012 have been... different, because the markets are rigged by multiple rounds of QE that finally resulted in an unlimited QE. Add to the mix the looming election and the fiscal cliff and we're pretty much in a huge deep hole of uncertainty. So I really feel like the best action plan for me is to maintain my PP allocation and forget about the noise.

I don't think we all here fell into some sort of a blissful sleep. From time to time we do see posts that question PP, or discuss PP tweaks. Some people maintain several portfolios trying to see if they can do better than PP. It's normal for humans - we are creative! The important thing is we are calm not because we have been brainwashed and blindly worship HB, but because we understand how PP works and why it behaves the way it behaves.

P.S. As to Bill Gross' infamous Treasuries bet: I don't remember the exact source, he or someone else wrote that he actually was correct in moving out of Treasury bonds IF the markets had not been rigged so much. I think now that we live in an era Gross called "new normal" he wouldn't make that call. I don't defend Bill Gross. His wrong call surely is another example of failure of active management, but he's been right most of the time and his total return fund does perform well. I like his way of thinking about things and I believe his articles deserve to be read as a part of a "well-diversified reading portfolio".  ;)

dualstow wrote: What I want to know is, what % of the Other section consists of MG's threads.  ;) And that's not a dig, MG. I enjoy your topics and read similar things at Ray Kurzweil's AI website.

I like big butts and I cannot lie.  Oops, wrong forum!  I am a crypto-anarchist, libertarian-transhumanist and I cannot lie.

I came originally to read about the PP, but come back for the “Other”? topics.

This forum has a great group of smart, street wise people, who can discuss many aspects of issues in an intelligent and articulate way, without the conversation boiling over.

Now that the investing nut is cracked, I’m looking forward to gaining insight to elegant design solutions in other areas.

I think the forum is getting close to a a breakthrough on designing the optimum diet (Perfect Pantry)...just don't come out with the book until after the holidays!

MediumTex wrote: I think that if your handle was "BullBones" you might not enjoy some of the wacky stuff here quite as much, though I always try to guide things in the direction of courtesy and topics that are interesting and stimulating, no matter what the subject is.  I have found few places on the internet quite like this one and maybe it is a little addictive, but I don't think there are too many angry people here.

Definitely true. I have found most of the discussions on this forum amazingly civilized, and I am ever amazed at the knowledge that many of you have.
BTW, I just added the book you recommended, Wen-Tzu, to my Amazon cart.