Gyroscopic Investing

I wonder what the unicorns in Cheney's mind would say about this one!

At least half a million people die every year on average and millions more are injured, raped and forced to flee from their homes as a result of the poorly regulated global trade in weapons and munitions. The arms trade is shrouded in secrecy, but the recorded value of international transfers is approaching USD$100 billion annually. 

The ATT includes a number of robust rules to stop the flow of arms to countries when it is known they would be used for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes or serious violations of human rights law. Governments that are part of the ATT will now have to carry out objective assessments to avoid an overriding risk that an arms export would be used to commit those atrocities.

http://amnesty.org/en/news/arms-trade-t ... 2014-12-22

The unicorns in my mind say "you can't legislate morality".

... Mountaineer

Mountaineer wrote: The unicorns in my mind say "you can't legislate morality".

... Mountaineer

Even though I often appreciate the arguments being made accompanying that statement, it's always seemed like bullshit to me. 

If you can't legislate morality, what the hell are our anti-murder laws for? :/

A halfway decent movie about this is "Lord of War" with Nicolas Cage as the international Arms Dealer. At the end of the movie he finally gets arrested by the U.S. Govt for selling weapons to some murdering group of Africans. While he's in the interrogation room he tells the agent that in five minutes he's going to be getting a call from someone high up telling him to release me so I can keep doing what the government wants me to do but can't. The call comes and that's how the movie ends.

I suspect this treaty will end up being a joke with everyone violating it clandestinely just like in that movie.

I think the point is to make it difficult for the "Lords of War" not to have the high level political support that allows their immoral criminality to flourish unchecked.  ISIS seems like a poignant recent example.  To make such unregulated behavior socially abhorrant and treasonous, it first must be formally agreed upon and recognized as such in international law before you can hold politicians and bureaucrats accountable and raise their social awareness.

If the "Lords" are all left to compete against each other among just a few rogue non-signatory countries, profits will eventually collapse and they'll move onto easier pickings.  Then the remaining hard-core "Lords" will be very easy to isolate and target for elimination when the vast majority of the world is against them.  So short of expanding into outer space, the arms trade is now officially a non-growth industry.  Can't say I'm going to shed a tear, but I'd love to hear how the NeoCons are gonna rationalize this one (as war profiteers).

I'm pretty sure the arms manufacturers will find a way to sell their products to those who want them.  The profit motive in humans is much stronger than the motive for good.  A treaty looks good on paper, but isn't likely to accomplish much against the profit motive.

moda0306 wrote:

Mountaineer wrote: The unicorns in my mind say "you can't legislate morality".

... Mountaineer

Even though I often appreciate the arguments being made accompanying that statement, it's always seemed like bullshit to me. 

If you can't legislate morality, what the hell are our anti-murder laws for? :/

I offer that laws do not (primarily) enable moral behavior.  Laws are inanimate. Only a strong inner sense of right and wrong prevents murder type behavior.  Similar to guns are not the problem; it is the evil person that is the problem. Think about how effective the drug laws have been on restraining sales and use. Laws only work for a moral culture - look at Ferguson for a real live example; last I heard there were plenty of laws in place but the laws are being given the one finger salute.

... Mountaineer

The ATT includes a number of robust rules to stop the flow of arms to countries when it is known they would be used for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes or serious violations of human rights law. Governments that are part of the ATT will now have to carry out objective assessments to avoid an overriding risk that an arms export would be used to commit those atrocities.

Five of the top 10 arms exporters – France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK – are among the 60 states around the world to have already ratified the ATT. The USA, by far the largest arms producer and exporter, is among 70 other countries that have signed but not yet ratified the treaty. Other major arms producers like China, Canada and Russia have resisted signing or ratifying the treaty.

Yes absolutely. Prohibition works! Prohibit the sale of alcohol, no more drunkenness! Prohibit the sale of drugs, no more people getting high! Prohibit the sale of weapons, no more genocide!

Dick Cheney was and is a great man! He is truly a man of principle and courage.

Pointedstick wrote: Yes absolutely. Prohibition works! Prohibit the sale of alcohol, no more drunkenness! Prohibit the sale of drugs, no more people getting high! Prohibit the sale of weapons, no more genocide!

I don't think theres the same amount of moral outrage over alcohol and drugs as there is about arms trafficking, nor will there ever be.  Mountaineer is right, though; ultimately it all comes down to moral outrage; laws are just a legal tool from the body politic to get it done with accountability.  The difference here is the moral outrage is rather universal as opposed to just coming from conservatives.  Heck, I'm pretty sure Cheney's unicorns would take a horseshit on even the ideal of this treaty, but in American history, all the lasting positive social changes has come from progressives, not conservatives... i.e. environmental protection, nuclear disarmament, women's rights, freedom for the slaves, etc..  I won't dignify leftwing liberal loonies by calling them progressive and it must always be remembered that NeoCons were originally in the Democratic Party, so its not about what side of the aisle you're on.

Reub wrote: Dick Cheney was and is a great man! He is truly a man of principle and courage.

Can you enlighten us about what courageous thing has he done to gain your admiration? Are you talking about going on talk shows to speak about how we need to send our troops overseas to fight in wars? How much courage does that take?

Like our current Vice President he got 5 draft deferments during the Vietnam War which he now describes as a "noble cause". If it was so noble why wasn't he there?

To me, he represents the ultimate definition of a Chickenhawk.

Reub wrote: Dick Cheney was and is a great man! He is truly a man of principle and courage.

Dick Cheney is an unindicted war criminal.