Gyroscopic Investing

[quote=http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/2 ... c-illness/]Many people with chronic health problems resign themselves to lives of modest activity or no activity at all, thinking vigorous exercise is unsafe or that they lack the stamina for it. But recent studies are proving just the opposite.

They are showing that high-intensity exercise may be even better than regular aerobic activities for many patients with conditions like heart disease, diabetes, stroke, pulmonary disease, arthritis and Parkinson’s disease.

The studies strongly suggest that a more demanding but more efficient and often more enjoyable form of exercise known as high-intensity interval training, or HIIT, is not only safe for most patients but more effective at preventing or reversing the deficits associated with many chronic ailments.[/quote]

I've been hearing a lot about this lately...do they define high intensity?

On the other hand,

Fast running is as deadly as sitting on couch, scientists find
http://bit.ly/1Kn6woR

Kbg wrote: I've been hearing a lot about this lately...do they define high intensity?

Yep, 80%-90% of maximum effort.  Good rule of thumb is 2:1 time ratio of rest:effort.

Running isn't a high intensity activity; its steady state aerobics B.S..  Steady state kills!

MachineGhost wrote:

Kbg wrote: I've been hearing a lot about this lately...do they define high intensity?

Yep, 80%-90% of maximum effort.  Good rule of thumb is 2:1 time ratio of rest:effort.

Running isn't a high intensity activity; its steady state aerobics B.S..  Steady state kills!

Is this something that's made up by those who don't run? Is there really proof of this? Don't most athletes perform at least some steady state training?

Interesting!!  Especially the part about how little overall time it takes.

I wouldn't mind trying this on the stairs in my building:  cheap, easy, efficient.  Alternate running upstairs with walking downstairs for one minute each x 10 cycles.  No need for a gym.  Of course a bike would be more fun but it's kinda icy out there right now.

author=MachineGhost link=topic=6814.msg112840#msg112840 date=1423100564

Running isn't a high intensity activity; its steady state aerobics B.S..  Steady state kills!

But runners do do high intensity interval training. Distance runners even do a lot of that. Years ago I was a lodger in a house with people who were keen fell runners and that was what they did a lot of the time for training. They used to repeatedly run up and down hills fast and jog in between to get their breath back:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fartlek

Interval training was key to the first "4 minute mile"

WiseOne wrote: Of course a bike would be more fun but it's kinda icy out there right now.

A bike ride with some steep hills for the high intensity part is my preferred way. Hills are hard to find here in Florida (in NYC too, I bet) but my usual 20 mile ride does have a few. One is even a 10% grade which really gets the heart pumping.

WiseOne wrote: Interesting!!  Especially the part about how little overall time it takes.

I wouldn't mind trying this on the stairs in my building:  cheap, easy, efficient.  Alternate running upstairs with walking downstairs for one minute each x 10 cycles.  No need for a gym.  Of course a bike would be more fun but it's kinda icy out there right now.

Doing intervals on stairs sounds like a very easy way to injure yourself; be careful. 

I can't speak to the whole running aspect of all this, but as far as strenth/power training goals, the clean/snatch might just be my favorite lift.

You have to use leg, hip, back, shoulder and arm strength AND speed to launch a bar off the ground to a position above your head.

And unlike strength-focused (rather than power/explosion-focused) lifts, I get my heart-rate up higher and longer, as well as "feel better" for the rest of the day.

That said, I still love my squats and dead-lifts... there's just something about attaching a speed function to them that makes things more satisfying.

Doing snatches is a lot of fun.  So are cleans, but to a lesser degree IMO.  However when I try these lifts as a workout, I have to be careful about the repetition.  My lower back sometimes hurts afterword, which I don't take as a good sign.

dualstow wrote: On the other hand,

Fast running is as deadly as sitting on couch, scientists find
http://bit.ly/1Kn6woR

That's not really incompatible.  The "fast running" they refer to is constant high output.  Interval training includes something like a 2 minute "rest" after 1 minute high exertion, and you aren't doing it for hours on end.

I've always been in bad enough shape that when I try interval training it's more like a 5:1 ratio rest:work.  I base this on doing a 30 s interval at max capacity and then low effort until my heart rate recovers to (some number I forget based on my age).  It always takes a few minutes for my heart rate to come back down.

I screwed up my foot badly with interval training.

Running?

Yes. Wind sprints. After 2 months and 3 cortisone shots it's starting to come around again.

Intervals on a rower is the win. No impact. Plus, a computer screen right in front of your face tells you how far and how long you've been going.

Reub wrote: Yes. Windsprints. After 2 months and 3 cortisone shots it's starting to come around again.

If you're not back to normal get some of the topical stuff in 1 below (super cheap) and apply 3 times per day topically.  If that doesn't fix things after a week add the caps in 2 below and take them till you're better and then a week longer.

1. For any trauma/inflammation this stuff is amazing as long as there is no broken skin and injury is close enough to skin for it to penetrate since it is a topical:

Zheng Gu Shui External Analgesic Lotion.  Sold through e.g. amazon red label with white lettering.  Apply topically at least 2 and preferably 3+ times during day.  magic stuff.  YOu can read all the amazon ratings. 
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywor ... tkscqcu7_e

2.  Pill form useful for any injury/surgery/inflammation:

Repair gold by enzymedica. 
http://enzymedica.com/collections/thera ... epair-gold

Ignore label and take 3 caps in divided doses AT LEAST 30  MIN BEFORE OR 2 HOURS AFTER FOOD.  At least 3 and preferably 4 times divided throughout the day.  Taking with food completely negates the benefits.

Kriegsspiel wrote: Intervals on a rower is the win.

Probably a good idea.  I've only used my nordic track (from '87 and still working) or an ellipical.  Any of the above  are kind of the joints.

Jesus, rowing kills my lower back.  After like 2 or 3 km, I can hardly stand it.  Probably do it wrong.

Benko wrote:

WiseOne wrote: Interesting!!  Especially the part about how little overall time it takes.

I wouldn't mind trying this on the stairs in my building:  cheap, easy, efficient.  Alternate running upstairs with walking downstairs for one minute each x 10 cycles.  No need for a gym.  Of course a bike would be more fun but it's kinda icy out there right now.

Doing intervals on stairs sounds like a very easy way to injure yourself; be careful.

Thanks will keep this in mind!

Northern Manhattan has some great hills, and biking is definitely preferred when weather permits.

Reub wrote: Is this something that's made up by those who don't run? Is there really proof of this? Don't most athletes perform at least some steady state training?

No, its scientific.  There's no way to target "aerobic" metabolism.  Only ignorant athletes do "cardio".  But surely if you're ignorant enough to want to be, say, a marathon runner, you have to "train" for that by acting like a concentraton camp victim and torturing your body endlessly so it gets "used to it".  Just don't be surprised when you drop dead from a stroke or heart attack as many runners do.  Extremism of any kind is unhealthy.

I never thought about it before, but it must be the rest period that keeps high intensity intervals healthy.  I tend to view it more of a pulsile effort thing than the rest.

stone wrote: But runners do do high intensity interval training. Distance runners even do a lot of that. Years ago I was a lodger in a house with people who were keen fell runners and that was what they did a lot of the time for training. They used to repeatedly run up and down hills fast and jog in between to get their breath back:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fartlek

Interval training was key to the first "4 minute mile"

But I would call that sprinting not running.  It's a philosophical and phsyiological difference nowadays because of decades of "aerobics" baloney.  There's still many deluded people out there spending 2-3 hours in a gym every day doing steady state "cardio" in a futile attempt to lose body fat.

If we're going to get picky, then the delineating key is the heart rate.  Steady state will have your heart at a moderate or low intensity level, which is why it has very little benefit and when you do it for hours every day or so, prepare to drop dead early.

moda0306 wrote: That said, I still love my squats and dead-lifts... there's just something about attaching a speed function to them that makes things more satisfying.

Problem is speed != good/excellent form which is why people run into various problems, i.e. dangerous.  Especially those doing that hard core PowerFit or whatever that exercise fad of the moment is called.

dragoncar wrote: I've always been in bad enough shape that when I try interval training it's more like a 5:1 ratio rest:work.  I base this on doing a 30 s interval at max capacity and then low effort until my heart rate recovers to (some number I forget based on my age).  It always takes a few minutes for my heart rate to come back down.

Technically the heart rate is how you should measure the rest period, not by time.  However long it takes to get it back down to a low level of intensity, is when you're ready for another all out.  There's a scientific way of measuring it but its not by that 220 - age pseudo-science baloney.

All this being said, I cannot do both high intensity weight lifting once a week and daily high intensity "aerobic" exercise thereafter.  It is wayyy too stressful.  Low level is fine for endorphin release and anti-stress benefits.  A lot of people are really just addicted to that and conflate it with extreme steady state "aerobics".

Anyway, I think exercise should be limited to being defined as high intenstiy interval only and literally anything else should be defined recreation.  This would help deconfuse a lot of people.

Lowe wrote: Jesus, rowing kills my lower back.  After like 2 or 3 km, I can hardly stand it.  Probably do it wrong.

Hmm, I keep my lower back flat, just like with deads or squats or anything. Never had problems with the rower. Other than fatigue (obviously).

The thing I've found with the rower is that the length of the interval isn't the same as with running. With rowing, I think it's best to add around 25% to the distance that you would be covering for sprints. So if you were running 400m repeats for intervals, you could just row a 500m... sprinting 100m, row 125m. The times to completion usually work out to about the same.