Gyroscopic Investing

The investigation, led by New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, focused on a variety of herbal supplements from four major retailers: GNC, Target, Walmart and Walgreen Co. Lab tests determined that only 21 percent of the products actually had DNA from the plants advertised on the labels.
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The retailer with the poorest showing was Walmart, where only 4 percent of the products tested showed DNA from the plants listed on the labels.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/herbal-supp ... y-general/

Shocked but not too surprised...

I'm taking an herbal supplement and had the choice between an inexpensive generic version from Whole Foods and a higher priced formulation developed in Germany, where there is tight regulation of herbal supplements.  I tried the low priced version first and it did nothing.  When I switched to the German formulation it started working immediately.

The generic version was supposed to be exactly the same...claimed to be standardized etc.  I have no way to know of course, but I'm betting it was no such thing.

Incidentally, this issue is very likely to affect outcomes of clinical trials of herbal medicines.  For the supplement in question, there have been several trials with mixed results.  The one using the German formulation showed results that are as good as those obtained with the standard prescription medication.  So I switched, because the prescription medication has a potential serious side effect that the herbal one doesn't.  Also of course it costs more than 5x as much!

Anyone who buys wallmart supps...

I only buy from brands I consider reliable e.g. Jarrow, Now brands and companies that sell only to docs.  I've personally talked to the technical folks at Jarrow on a number of occasions and liked what I heard.

Also forgetting me you can look at People you respect eg chris Kresser and see what brands he chooses to sell (forget details, but jarrow is one)

I alluded to this in this post: http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... #msg112723

I think the real problem is Chinese sourcing of raw material which is what co-manufacturing companies do to make cheap in-house retail store brands or bottom-tier supplement companies.

A good rule of thumb is to stick to trademarked ingredients because such companies tend to control the supply chain and QA endpoints.  For instance, a safe creatine without toxic metabolites, CreaPure, is made in Germany.

Life Extension probably has the ultimost best in QA that exceeds even pharmaceutical standards but they are very expensive.  They do so to support the Foundation's research when they could go for volume instead.

Swanson -- family owned -- is probably the only company that can get away with getting rid of all the upmarking middlemen for a lower cost product, but still using trademarked ingredients and doing high QA.  Nearly all of my supplements are purchased from them now.  VitaCost is good backup for trademarked ingredients, but I don't have a favorable impression of their non-trademarked herbs.  NOW has inconsistent quality too.

Herbs are best taken in form of a 1:1 herb:menstruum ratio tincture anyway.  Active ingredients need to be extracted from the plant matter and not everything is water soluble.  Humans are not cows with multiple stomachs.

NG,

What are you basing your comments about now brand on?

The problem with trademarked ingredients is that you're often paying a lot extra for eg creapure vs other forms of creatine which would (best I know not expert in creatine) be equally fine (as long as not contaminated).  Trademarking in general (not just creating) is often a scam to sell stuff that is no better for higher prices.

Benko wrote: What are you basing your comments about now brand on?

The problem with trademarked ingredients is that you're often paying a lot extra for eg creapure vs other forms of creatine which would (best I know not expert in creatine) be equally fine (as long as not contaminated).  Trademarking in general (not just creating) is often a scam to sell stuff that is no better for higher prices.

Personal experience, as well as reviews.  NOW has gone downhill for whatever reason.  Maybe they've grown too big?

Trademarked ingredients also tend to have research behind them, even if they're manufacturer-funded in the worst case.  But, so long as you avoid the brands that have markups due to the traditional distribution channel, you can get the trademarked ingredients without paying the price.  Jarrow tends to be relatively expensive because of the markups despite using the exact same trademarked-ingredients as Swanson or VitaCost.

But yes, good luck NOT getting contaminated supplements sourced from China.  It is just not worth the risk in using brands that don't have high QA.  Life Extension refuses to use any Chinese sourced material.  I wish we could adopt that attitude but then supplements wouldn't be affordable.

Vitacost was recently acquired by giant supermarket chain Kroger. Will this lead to a deterioration of their products?

Came across the below reviews by accident when researching something else, but it goes along with the news I recently reposted about how frozen broccoli has no myrosinase enzyme to create sulforaphane...  well, neither do all the broccoli extract supplements!  That explains why I never saw any results with Jarrow's BroccoMax which I dumbly used in place of fresh broccoli sprouts.  I had specifically picked that one because it had the same strength and standardization as used in research studies.  Sigh.

So I wrote to Jarrow asking about the Myrosinase content in BroccoMax. No reply. I wrote again. No reply. So I sent another email from another email address about a different subject. They replied same day. So I sent the original email questioning Myrosinase from the other email address they had just replied to. No reply. Obviously nothing was wrong with my original email address. This continued for 5 emails. They did not reply to one of them. So I called them. Put on hold. After hold was told that someone would call me back. No return call (of course). Do you ever wonder if supplments are just something devised by supplement companies as a means of making money, and in fact 99% are completely worthless junk which have no real benefit?

I have been using this product for about 3 months and my murky green eyes have now become crystal clear with the outside part of my iris now a blue and the inner colour now a light green. I put it down to this product! I am so impressed with Broccoli Sprouts from the Eclectic Institute. So, if my eyes have become so clear, it surely is doing the rest of me good. Could not recommend this product highly enough!!

So, bottom line is eat fresh broccoli sprouts, always put on or eat a raw cruciferous veggie with your cooked broccoli, and/or mix whole broccoli [sprout] powder into water and drink within 30 minutes.  Broccoli is like garlic; the good stuff is only formed when the separate myrosinase and glucosinate sacs are broken and combine.  Doh!

Anyone know how much a container of fresh broccoli sprouts cost?  I seem to remember it being cost prohibitive.

Sprout living (comp name) sells freeze dried mixture broccoli and kale sprouts.  I have 4 ounce bag but haven't tried it yet.  Not cheap.

Fresh sprouts may not be an option either.  From EnduraCell:

The fresh sprouts are certainly an option but the quality of the seed stock has been shown to vary by up to 40-fold and so you don't know if you are buying seeds which are high or low in glucoraphanin and the myrosinase enzyme. The other factor is that the fresh sprout contains an inhibitor, Epithiospecifier protein (ESP) which inhibits the myrosinase enzyme activity up to 75%, meaning you wont be able to convert most of the glucoraphanin to active sulforaphane. All the other nutritional benefits of fresh green plants will be present but an undetermined quantity of sulforaphane will be produced.

I guess I'll stick to that Eclectic Institute freeze-dried supplement, though its relatively expensive ($37!).  EnduraCell is Australian so it costs a lot more for their product than is competitive with the US market: $63 for 2.8oz (for how out of whack their prices are, their botique brand US distributor also sells 60 capsules of GliSODin for $53...  idiotic).

The reason I'm even on this subject again is because there was a recent trial of whole broccoli sprouts on autistic kids with very interesting results (66% responding).  And that the whole broccoli sprouts acts both anti-catabolic and pro-anabolic.  In fact, the autistic kids gained over 2 pounds.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25313065

Benko wrote: Sprout living (comp name) sells freeze dried mixture broccoli and kale sprouts.  I have 4 ounce bag but haven't tried it yet.  Not cheap.

That looks more cost effective than the Eclectic supplement which is only 1.4oz.  Do you know what percentage is broccoli?  Does the kale part contain any oxalic acid?

$19.99: http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-587646-sp ... r-mix-4-oz

EnduraCell also said efficacy studies using fresh broccoli sprouts use 70-100 grams, or 4mg sulfurophane.

No idea how much is kale vs broccoli, you'd have to call.  I would assume it contains oxalic acid, since best I know, all kale does.

And I keep thinking about your shoulder question.  Best Zi know, there is no such thing as pathologically depressed shoulders.  However many people who work out wind up with "elevated shoulders", in which case people with more normal shoulder would seem depressed.

Benko wrote: And I keep thinking about your shoulder question.  Best Zi know, there is no such thing as pathologically depressed shoulders.  However many people who work out wind up with "elevated shoulders", in which case people with more normal shoulder would seem depressed.

It doesn't seem as droopy as I remember.  Maybe he's worked on it or he just has a really long neck?

MachineGhost wrote: That looks more cost effective than the Eclectic supplement which is only 1.4oz.  Do you know what percentage is broccoli?  Does the kale part contain any oxalic acid?

$19.99: http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-587646-sp ... r-mix-4-oz

EnduraCell also said efficacy studies using fresh broccoli sprouts use 70-100 grams, or 4mg sulfurophane.

Have you considered sprouting these yourself? I watched a few youtube videos detailing the process and it looks quite simple. It's tough to find consistent yield estimates, but I'm finding 1 Tbs. seeds -> 1-1.5 cups sprouts. You can get a pound of organic seeds for about $25. Approx 45 Tbs. per pound...that's a lot of sprouts.

iwealth wrote: Have you considered sprouting these yourself? I watched a few youtube videos detailing the process and it looks quite simple. It's tough to find consistent yield estimates, but I'm finding 1 Tbs. seeds -> 1-1.5 cups sprouts. You can get a pound of organic seeds for about $25. Approx 45 Tbs. per pound...that's a lot of sprouts.

I was thinking about it especially as theres not that much variation in seed quality as EnduraCell likes to claim, at least from American sources.  There's still that problem of the protein inhibitor.

Another problem is I don't know about the practicality and cost effectiveness of eating 70-100 grams of fresh broccoli sprouts per day!

It would help if we knew what the freeze dried weight was equivalent to in fresh.

The Sprout Living is 70% broccoli sprouts powder and kale in general is very low in oxalic acid, .02 per 100 grams.  I'll be trying it soon.  Thanks, Benko!

MachineGhost wrote: So, bottom line is eat fresh broccoli sprouts, always put on or eat a raw cruciferous veggie with your cooked broccoli, and~

It's funny. I don't know much about nutrition or diet, but I often eat some raw broccoli along w/ cooked, same with cauliflower. Why? For the same reason I like the pp, I suppose. I like to hedge my bets.

Oh boy.  This was another classic example of political cronyism and career opportunism.  It was an intentionally flawed analysis release about a month afterwards to help promote NY Senator Kenneth LaValle's latest legislation of absurd anti-supplement regulations that he appears to have a historical fetish for (gee, I wonder whose pants he is in?  Maybe Senator Dick Durbin's?).  The analysis used one laboratory, one testing technology and was done by a scientist whose entire career is based on the genetic evolution of reptiles (!!!).  The test used, DNA barcoding, is appropriate for determining the DNA of lizards and snakes, but not supplements.  There was no validation, no peer review of the analysis or testing process and the NY AG Eric Schneiderman refuses to release the analysis for peer review.  Seriously?!!  

And GNC fires back:

[quote=http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Reg ... he-labels/]In a statement, GNC noted that the product lots in question were tested both during and after the production process and found to be pure and compliant prior to distribution.  The company also subjected the products to retesting following the AG’s letter, and found that the products “are pure, properly labeled and in full compliance with all regulatory requirements”?.[/quote]

Man, we really need an effective mechanism to virtually tar and feather political whores such as these two.

dualstow wrote: It's funny. I don't know much about nutrition or diet, but I often eat some raw broccoli along w/ cooked, same with cauliflower. Why? For the same reason I like the pp, I suppose. I like to hedge my bets.

Here the solution I came up with today: I put black mustard seeds in a pepper grinder and set it to the finest setting.  You can't even tell its on the cooked cruciferous.

So I went ahead and bought a lb. of broccoli sprouting seeds and picked up an Easy Sprout sprouter. The sprouter was maybe $15 and the seeds $20 or so. My first batch was quite successful. I yielded 5 oz. sprouts from about 2.5 tbsp seeds. My rough estimate is an 85% germination rate. It took about 6 days from start to finish.

I'm particularly interested in the possible myostatin inhibition. So I'm probably going to pick up a few more sprouters and always have a batch ready to eat. So surely I'll have huge muscles in a couple months, right? Ha.

The douchebag New York Attorney General (is he Democrat?) is now acting as his own personal FDA and trial lawyer to cover up his previous incompetence:

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Man ... AG-s-probe

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/0 ... -together/

It's definitely a political witch hunt devoid of any scientific facts.  Have they moved on from Global Warming Climate Change already?