Gyroscopic Investing

have any of our supplement wizards or lifestyle hackers, tried or experimented with modafinil ? http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/modafinil-2013-4/ i would be a bit nervous about long term safety and side effects but it looks like an interesting drug.. the reported benefits make it sound tempting...

l82start wrote: have any of our supplement wizards or lifestyle hackers, tried or experimented with modafinil ? http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/modafinil-2013-4/ i would be a bit nervous about long term safety and side effects but it looks like an interesting drug.. the reported benefits make it sound tempting...

modafinil - a customized ED drug for moda?   

... Mountaineer

1.  There are several similar drugs: adrafinil, modafinil, and armodafinil.

Apparently the manafacturer of adrafinil in france stopped making the stuff in 2011. Perhaps because it had more side effects than the others.

http://www.pillscout.com/2014/09/16/can ... on-online/

2. Lots of people loved modafinal which was the one version available back when I was into tinkering with "smart drugs".

3. I tried modafinil back then.  If coffee makes you more alert and helps you stay awake longer and get stuff done, modafinil did help me stay awake, but did not have the positive benefits e.g. helping me get stuff done anywhere near as much as coffee.  This may not be how most people react to the stuff, and idiosyncratic to me.

4. Since they are all drugs you'll have to buy whichever version you want to try online. 

Edit: PS I don't recommend the stuff.

Modafinil is prescribed for patients who are sleepy or lethargic for one reason or another (e.g. narcolepsy), and it works pretty well with few side effects except possibly some irritability.  It can help a lot with changes in the sleep/wake cycle, e.g. switching from day to night shifts or flying to Europe.  I've used it when I had to fly to the UK and be functional the next day.

It's quite expensive stuff, and I can't imagine wanting to take it outside of one of those situations.  If I had sleepy sort of issues I'd try to solve whatever the cause in preference to taking this med.

from the little bit i have read so far, the bio-hacker types are using it to increase alertness, maintain peak mental performance for longer hours, speed up the learning curve in meditation practice and bio feedback training, and generally enhance human performance/learning. it seems like a lot to get from one drug with little (or maybe unknown) down sides, so i am a bit skeptical.. but still curious.. especially considering the severe side effects amphetamines have to get similar effects.... 

l82start wrote: from the little bit i have read so far, the bio-hacker types are using it to increase alertness, maintain peak mental performance for longer hours, speed up the learning curve in meditation practice and bio feedback training, and generally enhance human performance/learning. it seems like a lot to get from one drug with little (or maybe unknown) down sides, so i am a bit skeptical.. but still curious.. especially considering the severe side effects amphetamines have to get similar effects....

Getting sufficient sleep/rest a good diet, aerobic exercise (probably with intervals) and meditation can be helpful.  If you're interested in meditation, I've listed several types in an article here:

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... /#msg37571

2 extending the mini-meditation and 3 breath meditation are probably the best ones to play around with.

Anything the Bullshit Executive pushes should automatically be suspect!

But before you start messing around with drugs/nootropics, you better make sure your daily choline intake is top notch.  By that, I mean at least 700+mg a day if you're a man.  I suspect people use nootropics in place of poor nutrition; they may not need any drug in the first place if they weren't lazy/ignorant bums.

I stack choline and DMAE together for mutually different purposes.  Hydergine -- which I mentioned before -- actually just optimizes blood flow to the brain.  Point being theres a lot you can do at the margins before you start messing directly with your brain chemistry using drugs.  And doing that ALWAYS has consequences, without exception.  We're not fixed and immutable.

MangoMan wrote: Examine.com only rates choline as a 'C' supplement. Are you getting your choline in food form from egg yolks or other sources, or mostly via the pills?

Examine.com only considers human clinical/population trials (which are all mostly poorly designed or sloppy); they're not the be all end all authority yet.  I'm now getting the choline just from tablets; got an egg allergy and I junked the lecithin (too much Omega-6).  Before that I was taking CDP-Choline and Huperzine-A along with the DMAE.  I definitely prefer a complex food state nutrient compared to an isolated molecule or standardized herbal extract.  Who knows what else the body needs something for that you're bypassing?

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/natures- ... g-100-tabs

Personally, I find one 500mg tablet more effective (clearing brain fog) than two of the 300mg VitaCholine.

THere are probably a number of reasons to get choline in our diet e.g. eggs, lecithin, etc.

If you want brain benefits, either:

MachineGhost wrote: CDP-Choline

or alpha GPC choline are two ways.

DMAE is another choline related substance.  Like many of the "smart drug" related substances, some people benefit, many others not so much.  PERHAPS people with ADDish issues might try this.  There was one reference I can't find now indicating there might be some problems from taking this.  So other thread I started.

Huperzine-A inhibits the body from breaking down acetyl choline so there is more around.  Yes small doses are probably safe, and yes this comes from chinese club moss, but BE CAREFUL as the potential to do harm from this is greater than any of the others above.  I've tried small doses and didn't notice any benefits.

Again people vary wildly in their baseline state and taking supps which mess with varying neurotransmitters A. is very crude and B.  are perhaps only helpful depending on what the baseline state of that person is.  Why is why I recommend starting with aerobic exercise (which increases BDNF), meditation, etc which benefit everyone.


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Benko wrote: Getting sufficient sleep/rest a good diet, aerobic exercise (probably with intervals) and meditation can be helpful.  If you're interested in meditation, I've listed several types in an article here:

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/ot ... /#msg37571

2 extending the mini-meditation and 3 breath meditation are probably the best ones to play around with.

+ 1 on sleep/rest, diet, exercise (i could use more) and meditation. I like your three breath meditation i have been doing some little things that are very similar for years.. 

MachineGhost wrote: Anything the Bullshit Executive pushes should automatically be suspect!

But before you start messing around with drugs/nootropics, you better make sure your daily choline intake is top notch.  By that, I mean at least 700+mg a day if you're a man.  I suspect people use nootropics in place of poor nutrition; they may not need any drug in the first place if they weren't lazy/ignorant bums.

I stack choline and DMAE together for mutually different purposes.  Hydergine -- which I mentioned before -- actually just optimizes blood flow to the brain.  Point being theres a lot you can do at the margins before you start messing directly with your brain chemistry using drugs.  And doing that ALWAYS has consequences, without exception.  We're not fixed and immutable.

i have no idea what my choline intake is, it might be on the low side, i actually seem to have plenty of energy and alertness for my daily life (as mundane and un-stressful as it is) and prefer natural bio-hacks to drug induced ones. Still the idea of indulging my inner mad scientist does appeal...   given the cost and un-sustainability (i don't want to take some drug forever) if i was to try Modafinil i would probably wait until i was in a time when my life demands and taking on new challenges were high, and just run a short experiment to see if the difference was all that its claimed to be...  for now i plan to stick to lifestyle change type performance enhancements..

Benko's gap meditation can't be beat for getting to sleep at night.  I can't even remember the threshold cross, that's how good it is.  And it's weird because it makes you sort of very conscious of what you're doing while you're doing it until....  zzzzz.

Whether you do the "gap" meditation, the three breath meditation, or similar, they are very helpful.  I would encourage you to try several of them (including doing the 3 breath meditation for longer periods) and which every one you like best, do it e.g. mid morning and mid afternoon.  They can really improve you life, and the more you do them, the more you will benefit.

Oh and these are not mine, but come from traditions that are thousands of years old. 

SPeaking of which, if you want to check out something amazing, buy (or perhaps it is on youtube) a CD called REfuge by Gabrielle Roth.  Russian rock singer singing ancient tibetan chants.  Turn the lights out, lay back and listen.  Pretty impressive.

Benko wrote: Whether you do the "gap" meditation, the three breath meditation, or similar, they are very helpful.  I would encourage you to try several of them (including doing the 3 breath meditation for longer periods) and which every one you like best, do it e.g. mid morning and mid afternoon.  They can really improve you life, and the more you do them, the more you will benefit.

Oh and these are not mine, but come from traditions that are thousands of years old. 

SPeaking of which, if you want to check out something amazing, buy (or perhaps it is on youtube) a CD called REfuge by Gabrielle Roth.  Russian rock singer singing ancient tibetan chants.  Turn the lights out, lay back and listen.  Pretty impressive.

Thanks for this.  I remember when you originally posted a couple years back I found the breath techniques very helpful.  Need to refocus on doing this regularly.  I think I will set a couple of alarms as reminders.

hoost wrote:

Benko wrote: Whether you do the "gap" meditation, the three breath meditation, or similar, they are very helpful.  I would encourage you to try several of them (including doing the 3 breath meditation for longer periods) and which every one you like best, do it e.g. mid morning and mid afternoon.  They can really improve you life, and the more you do them, the more you will benefit.

Oh and these are not mine, but come from traditions that are thousands of years old. 

SPeaking of which, if you want to check out something amazing, buy (or perhaps it is on youtube) a CD called REfuge by Gabrielle Roth.  Russian rock singer singing ancient tibetan chants.  Turn the lights out, lay back and listen.  Pretty impressive.

Thanks for this.  I remember when you originally posted a couple years back I found the breath techniques very helpful.  Need to refocus on doing this regularly.  I think I will set a couple of alarms as reminders.

Good idea.  I set alarms on my iphone (or in the past itouch) to remind me to do this.  Very helpful.