Page 1 of 2
Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:07 am
by Pointedstick
A deep, thoughtful, and enlightening article. There is so much good information in here that I encourage everyone to read the whole thing. Very relevant now that the discussion is shifting back to terrorism and security. Here are some excerpts that I found particularly noteworthy:
http://www.economist.com/news/internati ... al-no-more
It could be that both security measures are so effective that they have completely deterred would-be terrorists from trying these methods again. Or it could be that they are essentially a performance to reassure passengers. Most experts incline towards the latter view.
Philip Baum, a security consultant and editor of Aviation Security International, calls it “security theatre as opposed to security reality”.
America’s Transportation Security Administration (TSA), an agency of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), has a budget of more than $7 billion a year; it also has access to the most advanced scanning technologies money can buy.
Critics say it has not foiled a single terrorist plot or caught a single terrorist in the past decade.
Bruce Schneier, the chief technology officer of Resilient Systems, a security firm, points out that whereas the TSA catches plenty of guns and knives inadvertently packed by passengers, it is less good at spotting more determined attempts to get bad stuff onto aircraft. In June its acting head was “reassigned” after
a so-called “red team” appointed by the inspector-general of DHS succeeded in getting fake bombs and weapons through the screening process in 67 out of 70 tests carried out in airports across America.
Why such a dismal record? “My guess is that it’s a combination of things,” reckons Mr Schneier. “Security screening is an incredibly boring job, and almost all alerts are false alarms. It’s very hard for people to remain vigilant in this sort of situation, and sloppiness is inevitable.” Mr Schneier also points to technology failures.
Screening technologies are poor at detecting PETN, an ingredient of the explosive Semtex, carried by the underpants bomber. A disassembled weapon has an excellent chance of getting through airport security. Mr Schneier reckons that the only worthwhile security changes that happened after the 2001 terrorist attacks were the introduction of locked, blast-proof cockpit doors (the al-Qaeda terrorists used knives to take over the planes) and the willingness of passengers to intervene if they see somebody behaving oddly.
[...]
The main reason why airport security is so bad, says Mr Baum, is that it tries to find things instead of focusing on the people who might carry them. Issy Boim, a former Shin Bet officer who worked closely with Israel’s airline, El Al, argues that whereas the Americans are looking for weapons, the Israelis “are looking primarily for the terror suspect”. Mr Baum is a strong advocate of what is known as “profiling”— building a picture of both passengers and airline staff. He rejects the idea that this has to be based on crude stereotyping (being suspicious of all young Muslim men, for example). It should be based on behaviour both prior to flying—for example, when, how and where a ticket was purchased—and at the airport itself.
El Al employs people who have been trained in psychological observation techniques to interview every passenger before he or she is cleared to go through physical screening. Anyone who arouses their suspicion is subjected to a further grilling and may well not fly. El Al is thought to use some profiling techniques that would be politically unacceptable in Europe or America. Hebrew-speaking Israelis can expect to get off more lightly than Arabs and single white women, for example.
But as Mr Baum points out, customs and immigration officers at airports in the West commonly use profiling, “and it works”.
But the most important thing of all might be to keep a sense of proportion. Many people travel on buses and trains, go to sporting events and attend open-air concerts. All are potential targets for terrorists, yet they receive not even a fraction of the attention that air travel gets.
Read the whole thing!
http://www.economist.com/news/internati ... al-no-more
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:08 am
by Libertarian666
I assume this is a big shock to anyone who has been asleep for the past 10 years or so.

Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:03 am
by dualstow
I guess I'd rather get called an apartheid proponent than get blown up and have people talk about how accepting I was.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:48 am
by I Shrugged
There are very few airports in Israel. According to Wikipedia, Ben Gurion handles 13 million passengers annually. The remaining handful account for less than 3 million combined.
I've flown to Israel. The security is a very personal encounter for sure.
The USA handles about 850 million passengers a year, assuming that's not a double count of arrival and departure of the same flyers. And hundreds of airports. Israeli style screening would be impossible. You think we have a security state now....
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:03 pm
by dualstow
Good point. There is certainly much more to protect.
Maybe TSA should be done away with and airport security should be privatized. Or partly privatized?
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:55 pm
by Libertarian666
dualstow wrote:
Good point. There is certainly much more to protect.
Maybe TSA should be done away with and airport security should be privatized. Or partly privatized?
Yes, it should be privatized. The airlines have the most to lose by a terrorist attack, so they should be the ones in charge.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:24 pm
by WiseOne
Totally agree with this author's take. Asking a group of underpaid people to search a haystack to find a needle that will only be there 0.0001% of the time is completely hopeless. Meanwhile, just think of the number of Swiss Army knives that have been sacrificed for no good purpose.
I like the direction they're going with TSA Precheck. In a sense, that's a form of profiling too. It would be great if they could accomplish the same thing without requiring an extensive background check.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:42 pm
by Greg
WiseOne wrote:
Totally agree with this author's take. Asking a group of underpaid people to search a haystack to find a needle that will only be there 0.0001% of the time is completely hopeless. Meanwhile, just think of the number of Swiss Army knives that have been sacrificed for no good purpose.
I like the direction they're going with TSA Precheck. In a sense, that's a form of profiling too. It would be great if they could accomplish the same thing without requiring an extensive background check.
Ehh I don't think TSA Precheck is still that good. I went through the PHL TSA Precheck line yesterday and got flagged in my backpack a bottle of water. Stupid mistake on my part but I asked them if I could dump out the water so that I could keep the bottle. They said I would have to go out of security and go back through again to do that. I asked them if I could just drink it. They said I couldn't.
... I don't like the TSA. They're mean (also they took my peanut butter on multiple occasions. I have learned to not travel with that now).
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:54 pm
by Pointedstick
The TSA is what happens with you give low-achieving, low-intelligence people unquestionable authority en masse. It isn't pretty.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:15 pm
by Libertarian666
Pointedstick wrote:
The TSA is what happens with you give low-achieving, low-intelligence people unquestionable authority en masse. It isn't pretty.
Sort of like a microcosm of government.

Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:51 pm
by dualstow
(Greg) Ehh I don't think TSA Precheck is still that good. I went through the PHL TSA Precheck line yesterday and got flagged in my backpack a bottle of water. Stupid mistake on my part but I asked them if I could dump out the water so that I could keep the bottle. They said I would have to go out of security and go back through again to do that. I asked them if I could just drink it. They said I couldn't.
... I don't like the TSA. They're mean (also they took my peanut butter on multiple occasions. I have learned to not travel with that now).
I can't tell if that's more of a TSA thing or a Philly thing. I find the TSA workers in Philly to be especially rude. In Key West, they're so nice you'd think you were in Canada.
In Philly once, I found an ID someone had dropped on the floor while I was going alongside the X-ray conveyor belt. I called out the name a few times and no one answered, so I put it on the belt, thinking it was the logical thing to do. A TSA lady appeared and yelled at me. "Help a person out! Don't be like that!" My face reddened.
Then, a very steroidal white dude screamed at me when I tried to take things off the tray even though I wasn't holding anyone up. "TAKE THE WHOLE THING WITH YOU!" He barked it twice after which I said, "You know what? I think I'm going to take the whole thing with me."
Libertarian666 wrote:
dualstow wrote:
Good point. There is certainly much more to protect.
Maybe TSA should be done away with and airport security should be privatized. Or partly privatized?
Yes, it should be privatized. The airlines have the most to lose by a terrorist attack, so they should be the ones in charge.
And they're actually starting to make money again although they'll never say that too loudly.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:37 pm
by Greg
dualstow wrote:
(Greg) Ehh I don't think TSA Precheck is still that good. I went through the PHL TSA Precheck line yesterday and got flagged in my backpack a bottle of water. Stupid mistake on my part but I asked them if I could dump out the water so that I could keep the bottle. They said I would have to go out of security and go back through again to do that. I asked them if I could just drink it. They said I couldn't.
... I don't like the TSA. They're mean (also they took my peanut butter on multiple occasions. I have learned to not travel with that now).
I can't tell if that's more of a TSA thing or a Philly thing. I find the TSA workers in Philly to be especially rude. In Key West, they're so nice you'd think you were in Canada.
In Philly once, I found an ID someone had dropped on the floor while I was going alongside the X-ray conveyor belt. I called out the name a few times and no one answered, so I put it on the belt, thinking it was the logical thing to do. A TSA lady appeared and yelled at me. "Help a person out! Don't be like that!" My face reddened.
Then, a very steroidal white dude screamed at me when I tried to take things off the tray even though I wasn't holding anyone up. "TAKE THE WHOLE THING WITH YOU!" He barked it twice after which I said, "You know what? I think I'm going to take the whole thing with me."
I can certainly understand that different airports could have different people working in them. Personally I like flying out of Baltimore Washington International (BWI) more than I do PHL. It just doesn't make sense. I HAVE TSA Pre-check. I'm going to fill up this bottle with water on the other side, or drink it right in front of them. Do they think a person who is "cleared" is going to drink a bunch of combustible fluid, somehow get it out of my body (use your imagination), and then try to blow up a plane? Who thinks that?!?
I'll tell you. Paranoid TSA. *double face palms*
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:00 pm
by Greg
Then again, everything is relative. At least I didn't get arrested over something like this:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/06/ts ... genitalia/
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:08 pm
by Mountaineer
Pointedstick wrote:
The TSA is what happens with you give low-achieving, low-intelligence people unquestionable authority en masse. It isn't pretty.
Even worse when they are apparently directed to be PC. My wife was in the screening line at Philly beside a woman in a full burka. The woman in the burka said she refused to be patted down or x-rayed. The TSA agent told her to go ahead to the gate (without any kind of screening). My wife was practically strip searched - she has two knee replacements. Go figure! What a joke!
... M
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:09 pm
by Libertarian666
dualstow wrote:
I can't tell if that's more of a TSA thing or a Philly thing. I find the TSA workers in Philly to be especially rude. In Key West, they're so nice you'd think you were in Canada.
Hmm, that's interesting. I fly to and from PHL three or four times a year to visit my mother. I have pre-check and have found that the TSA people on that line are actually fairly polite.
Not that I think they should even be there at all, of course.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:19 pm
by MediumTex
I try to treat TSA people like muggers.
I am cooperative, respectful, and I try not to make eye contact.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:17 am
by dualstow
@Libertarian666: Could be. I never applied for pre-check.
MediumTex wrote:
I try to treat TSA people like muggers.
I am cooperative, respectful, and I try not to make eye contact.
Ha, perfect!
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:03 am
by dragoncar
WiseOne wrote:
Asking a group of underpaid people to search a haystack to find a needle that will only be there 0.0001% of the time is completely hopeless.
Underpaid is an understatement, given that I always opt for the free sensual massage. Sometimes they find my foot. Sometimes not.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:08 am
by Pointedstick
I also like the complimentary government massage. It strikes me as so easy to get a weapon through: just stick it in your ass. It's not a cavity search, and if you get the pat-down, you don't go through the metal detector or the strip search machine. Just one example of a new vulnerability that the TSA has created.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:44 am
by Libertarian666
Pointedstick wrote:
I also like the complimentary government massage. It strikes me as so easy to get a weapon through: just stick it in your ass. It's not a cavity search, and if you get the pat-down, you don't go through the metal detector or the strip search machine. Just one example of a new vulnerability that the TSA has created.
Or this, if you are so equipped:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /71899282/
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:31 pm
by Mountaineer
Libertarian666 wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:
I also like the complimentary government massage. It strikes me as so easy to get a weapon through: just stick it in your ass. It's not a cavity search, and if you get the pat-down, you don't go through the metal detector or the strip search machine. Just one example of a new vulnerability that the TSA has created.
Or this, if you are so equipped:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /71899282/
That just modified my understanding of "concealed carry".
... M
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:18 pm
by MachineGhost
Pointedstick wrote:
The TSA is what happens with you give low-achieving, low-intelligence people unquestionable authority en masse. It isn't pretty.
Yes, a friend of a friend of mine is a TSA agent and is an obese, sex obsessed, alcoholic, loser. Vapid superficiality on every level. Literally. He's proud of his TSA uniform, job and actually thinks hes doing diddley squat in terms of securing America while wailing that others just don't understand.
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:19 pm
by dualstow
MachineGhost wrote:
Yes, a friend of a friend of mine is a TSA agent and is an obese, sex obsessed, alcoholic. Vapid superficiality on every level.
That's quite a combo of traits!
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:45 pm
by Xan
MachineGhost wrote:
Pointedstick wrote:
The TSA is what happens with you give low-achieving, low-intelligence people unquestionable authority en masse. It isn't pretty.
Yes, a friend of a friend of mine is a TSA agent and is an obese, sex obsessed, alcoholic, loser. Vapid superficiality on every level. Literally. He's proud of his TSA uniform, job and actually thinks hes doing diddley squat in terms of securing America while wailing that others just don't understand.
What do you say about your enemies?? :-)
Re: Airport security: read this, and then read it again
Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:49 pm
by dragoncar
By the way, I've decided that customs officers are by far the most vapidly aggressive people I've ever met. Maybe that's on purpose, but I'm always thrown off guard after talking to the really nice immigration people. Every time it's like "WHAT DO YOU MEAN [whatever I just said]

" ... it's like they don't understand English.