Fight Them Over There

[madbean]

"Kill the terrorists before they reach the West...."

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... continetti

I have never heard of this writer before but his article sounds like a pretty clear trumpet sounding for all-out war in the Middle East to me. That an influential right wing publication like National Review would choose to print it is remarkable to me.

He admits we aren't going to get the war he wants for the next two years but obviously hopes we can change that with the next election.

So I'm just curious what the good folks here think about it. Would this be a good reason to vote for a Republican next year?

[Pointedstick]

And there is really only one way America can respond to this challenge. We need to kill them first. We need to kill them on a field of battle whose contours are determined not by the terrorists but by us. We need to kill them over there — in the Middle East — before they reach the West.

Err... Isn't that what we've been doing for 14 years? We have started two wars in the middle east, we offer financial and military support for regime change in many countries, and we actively send money and weapons to people there we believe are advancing our interests. And yet here we are, seemingly no more safe than we were a decade and a half ago, if I am to believe the author. If it didn't work, the answer is to... do it even more?

the universal answer to governments failure to achieve any goal at any time... do more of the same, spend more on doing the same..

[Mountaineer]

Google "defeat your enemy".  There are about 9,080,000 results.  Which of those do you recommend?  Why?

... Mountaineer

[dualstow]

The guy has weird lips, doesn't he? Anyway...
Wiki says "He is married to Anne Elizabeth Kristol, the daughter of neo-conservative writer William Kristol." Explains a lot.

How about if we blow things up over there but deny all responsibility instead of sending troops?

[Kbg]

I've been at this very thing since day 1...a couple of personal perspectives.

We will win this, but likely be at it for another 20-30 years whether we want to "be at it" or not. The enemy gets a vote and they have opted "in."

Over several hundred years of experience, generally what happens is the first gen is highly committed and motivated; then they begin to get into their 40-50s and if they've basically gotten nowhere they begin to wonder "what the crap did I do with my life" and become old men. The second gen is generally not as ideologically committed and in unsuccessful insurgencies don't stick around long because they don't have those heady memories of the beginning/success.

We need to be patient, continue to attrit them, deny them any lasting success and not break the bank doing it. Historically these things never work out against a committed government that isn't stupid and/or totally corrupt already.

If we have another 9-11 kind of event, my guess is the western governments will take the gloves off and wealthy men will begin to die in strange ways across the Middle East in addition to those young and poor dying in the meat grinder of what is going on now.

You would be surprised at how much killing happens on a daily basis. Perhaps you have noticed that there have been no U.S. prisoners of war for a very long time and I doubt there will be any in the future. That should give you just a bit of a hint on how vicious it is behind the curtains. This may sound kind of twisted, but I think non-westerners forget that Europeans and their offshoot countries are the same guys capable of killing at levels simply not imagined before. We start World Wars, drop atomic bombs and other stuff like that. The only guy(s) remotely close to the Europeans was Genghis Khan/the Mongols...actually they were worse and did it with bows and swords.

[dualstow]

It does have a certain ring to it!
And for fans of 'Breaking Bad', maybe (X-ray) Kristolography could be the study of Kristology.

[stone]

TennPaGa, that Italian story also made me think of what made Northern Ireland worse and of what has improved the situation there somewhat. Basically what worked in Italy was also what worked in Northern Ireland.

[Benko]

Of course, all of this came to a price, ie a high level of public debt due to the massive injection of money in the and a high level of political corruption due to the amount of money managed by politicians (and by the sheer necessity to corrupt Communist representatives). But, seen in perspective, they are a minor price to be paid, if compare with the risk of major civil strife and the dismemberment of the State.

A lot of good points, but rather convenient that the remedy winds up being massive gov't spending, corruption, etc. Some cures are worse than the disease.

[stone]

Of course, all of this came to a price, ie a high level of public debt due to the massive injection of money in the and a high level of political corruption due to the amount of money managed by politicians (and by the sheer necessity to corrupt Communist representatives). But, seen in perspective, they are a minor price to be paid, if compare with the risk of major civil strife and the dismemberment of the State.

A lot of good points, but rather convenient that the remedy winds up being massive gov't spending, corruption, etc. Some cures are worse than the disease.

I really wonder whether the debt and corruption truly were part of the cure. I was thinking it was a bit of a tenuous link between celebrating Italy's success on that front and excusing some screw ups. I don't see why you couldn't draw the alienated into the fold and civilize things just through calmness and ensuring those communities aren't set upon.

[Kbg]

Personally I find the analysis being proposed as a fix a bit silly. As a starting point one should ask themselves if Italy resembles a typical Middle Eastern government. If the intent was as applied to jihadists living in Europe then the question that should be asked is how do jihadists different from Italian communists. Finally, the proposed solution ignores the historical context of what else was going on...e.g. years of cold and hot war which played a huge role and certainly provided Italy a military expenditures bill of not an insignificant sum.

[MachineGhost]

So I'm just curious what the good folks here think about it. Would this be a good reason to vote for a Republican next year?

War is the Health of the State