Suppositories

[Kriegsspiel]

My dog needs valium suppositories to counteract seizures. The pills don't take effect fast enough, and you can't get him to swallow them anyway once the seizure starts. The vet called it in to a large pharmacy chain and they told us when we went to pick it up that one dose was $275! Wtf? So the vet called a compounding pharmacy and they said they could make up 5 of them for $45, but the dog would need 2, so each dosing would run almost $20.

I was wondering if you could just take a plain glycerin suppository and crush up a valium tablet [generic is less than a buck] into it? Anyone here have any experience with this?

WiseOne or Benko the resident physicians have any input or thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Suppositories go in the butthole.

[Benko]

Sorry, way out of my area of expertise.

A pharmacist (or one who deals with vet drugs) might be able to answer your question.

[Xan]

Reading your first post, MangoMan, it seems to say pretty clearly that you're trying to give him suppositories orally.

Re-reading, I guess what you meant is to CONTRAST suppositories with pills.  As a layman, at least, I would consider a suppository to be a special type of pill, and not take "pill" to mean "not suppository" by default.

[Mountaineer]

Reading your first post, MangoMan, it seems to say pretty clearly that you're trying to give him suppositories orally.

Re-reading, I guess what you meant is to CONTRAST suppositories with pills.  As a layman, at least, I would consider a suppository to be a special type of pill, and not take "pill" to mean "not suppository" by default.

You need to get out more.        Being older does come with the potential for more "interesting" experiences. 

... Mountaineer

[Lonestar]

I am not a pharmacologist but I spent 38 years in the marketing department of the company that made Valium.  I spent many of my years marketing this product to the medical community,  Unlike other benzodiazepines, I have never heard of any success with diazepam other than oral and injectable applications.  I have a veterinarian friend that uses it orally in dogs with good success, but not for seizures.

I doubt that grinding the tablet into small pieces, and compounding into suppositories is going to give you the therapeutic blood levels you need.  I also think the only way you are maybe going to find an answer is to make contact with someone in pharmacology in a teaching facility.  Good luck.

[dualstow]

Maybe you can reach Coffee. Isn't he a dog specialist or trainer or something?

[dualstow]

And good luck, btw, sir. I'm sure the whole ordeal must be nerve wracking.

[WiseOne]

Sorry to hear about your dog's seizures, MangoMan...you can always PM me to get a faster response btw.  I've been kinda busy lately and not keeping up too well.

It's not necessary to give Valium for each seizure unless they last a long time.  A seizure is typically 1-2 minutes long, whereas it takes rectal valium at least 5-10 minutes to start working.  So you're likely wasting your money.  Not only that, but giving Valium irregularly but frequently (a few times/week) can make the problem worse.

The hard part is to distinguish the seizure (freezing/staring, limb jerking or weird posturing) from the postseizure state, where the dog will be just lethargic and limp and will probably go to sleep, or conversely may be agitated and confused.  The aftereffects of a seizure can last anywhere from several minutes to hours, and it will not be affected by Valium.  If there is postictal agitation Valium can even make it worse.  Can you clock a few seizures and report how long they are lasting and what they look like?  And also what time they occur?  Like, are there several in a short period of time, is there a particular time of day when they happen etc?

What you might have to do, if the seizures are frequent and affect the dog's quality of life, is to give a daily anticonvulsant - which would NOT be Valium.  Valium is purely a rescue medication for prolonged or clustered seizures.  Also, it's probably more important to figure out why the dog is having seizures.

Feel free to post the info or PM me, whatever you prefer.

[WiseOne]

At 10 minutes duration, the Valium is not going to do very much. The main reason to give it is if the dog is distressed afterwards.  Have you tried a dose, and did you notice a difference?

If seizures have been going on for a long time he's pretty well used to them, they've done all the damage they're going to do, and I agree with you about not being that motivated to medicate.  Phenobarbital is cheap and easy to dose but has nasty side effects.

Out of curiousity - what did you mean by "severe" and "less severe"?

[WiseOne]

Seizures scare everyone more than just about anything that can happen...that applies to medical professionals too.

It sounds to me like these are generalized convulsions, with not really much change in severity (maybe more stiffening/less jerking lately).  It won't hurt to try the Valium, but it is probably more important to practice good seizure first aid.  Don't put anything into the dog's mouth, and make sure he is not banging against something.  Afterwards roll him on his side so he doesn't choke on secretions, and let him wake up.  You might want to check to see if he's bitten his tongue.  It will help to keep in mind that he is completely unaware of the whole thing, and you have it much worse because you have to watch it happen!

[MachineGhost]

Isn't valium just trying to treat the symptoms?  What is the actual cause of the seizures?  It sounds like its being going on for a long time.  I wish I could remember what I read a while back about what helps to actually prevent seizures.  I'll let you know if I come across it again.