Is Intermittent Fasting Good For You?

moda0306 · Post by **moda0306** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:48 pm

MG,

That 1,500 per day was a short inadvertent stretch but I felt great during it, which was worth reporting. I'm much more often around 1,800-2,000 range, with some really bad days sometimes.

I don't know where the 2,500 came from. Perhaps thats my homeostasis goal once I hit my ideal weight.

But thanks for the advice on the temp gauge. I'll probably try that. I've had cold spells since losing weight.

That crono app is $3. In your opinion, is it worth it over a more basic calorie counter?

Thanks again for all the input, man!!!

PS, just checked my vitamins. IF I take both am and pm tablets, which I usually don't manage to do both, I get 150 mcg. Well-below your 400-500 recommendation. Dammit. What is it about Chromium that makes you point that out specifically?

moda0306 · Post by **moda0306** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:54 pm

Just found that chromium is very rich in beef and eggs. I should be good. I eat both regularly (organic eggs, no less).

I've been tempted to dabble with beef liver for its micronutrient content. Seems gross, though.

MachineGhost · Post by **MachineGhost** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:24 pm

moda0306 wrote: That crono app is $3. In your opinion, is it worth it over a more basic calorie counter?

PS, just checked my vitamins. IF I take both am and pm tablets, which I usually don't manage to do both, I get 150 mcg. Well-below your 400-500 recommendation. Dammit. What is it about Chromium that makes you point that out specifically?

moda0306 · Post by **moda0306** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:11 pm

MG,

You certainly turn into quite the scientist when you get on this topic.

Thanks much!

Mark Leavy · Post by **Mark Leavy** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:33 pm

You guys are really overthinking this.

Super easy to lose weight and preserve lean body mass.

One meal a day around 4 pm. All the coffee in the morning that you want.
3X week of strength training.

Make your meal good and strong. Lean protein, a few eggs, some pate every now and then. A half a bottle of wine.

A sip or two of bourbon later in the evening.

If you are having hunger trouble in the morning have a couple of eggs or a few ounces of beef jerky.

Walk a few miles a day.

This sounds crazy, but it used to be called normal life.

madbean · Post by **madbean** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:35 am

After watching the PBS show by Michael Mosley, I started the intermittent fasting diet and have been at it for about a year and a half now, consuming no more than about 500 calories two days a week. That show implied that on your non-fasting days you could eat pretty much whatever you wanted but I have found this not to be true if the goal is to lose weight and not just maintain it. The pounds didn't really start coming off for me until I paid attention to calories on the non-fasting days as well.

I've just read about another variation where you supposedly can eat all you want on your non-fasting days and that is an alternating day diet where you consume the 500 calories every other day. Haven't tried it but sounds to me like it would work if you can handle it.

I've done about every diet there is in the past four years and I would say that they all work as long as you can stick with the plan. My BMI has gone from >30 (obese) to 26.5 in that amount of time but with a good bit of fluctuation. To me, the intermittent fasting diet is by far the easiest to stick with.

MachineGhost · Post by **MachineGhost** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:32 pm

I'm actually starting to feel and look a bit pokey despite eating around 1800 calories a day in just 8 hours. Either I'm converting too much resistant starch into fatty acids now or my thyroid has downshifted even more. The simple solution for now is just omit the EVOO from lunch and dinner for a while and see what happens.

I'm probably going to have to go on replacement thyroid hormone (the mainstream drug is bioidentical, but devoid of other thyroid factors that may or may not be needed) eventually. It's a law of diminishing returns in that the less and less calories you eat, the more and more you downshift your metabolism and reset your "set point". That's great for extending your lifespan, but apparantly there's a lot of negative symptoms that arise from being hypothyroid, but mysteriously it all seems overwhelmingly to present in women. Perhaps men just don't "diet" as much?

EDIT: No wonder I again haven't been hungry for the third meal for a while. It takes a real effort to force yourself to eat because you're just not craving anything in particular and the idea of even more vegetables is challenging.

Reub · Post by **Reub** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:17 pm

MG, could the Iodine be effecting your thyroid?

MachineGhost · Post by **MachineGhost** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:55 pm

Reub wrote: MG, could the Iodine be effecting your thyroid?

I'm not deficient, so no?

I'm almost out of the Iodoral, so once it's gone, I'll start monitoring my armpit temperature and see if it starts increasing.

If you're eating alot of vegetables every day ala PHD, you better be clearing 1mg of iodine a day to avoid goitrojens blocking your thyroid. I wonder if that's even enough since it was just an estimation by Chris Masterjohn. Every day, I eat 4 servings of vegetables, 1 serving of fruit and however you want to number the resistant starch and broccoli/kale sprouts.

moda0306 · Post by **moda0306** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:56 pm

Goitrogens are from vegetables and block your thyroid unless you get enough iodine?

Am I hearing that right?

MachineGhost · Post by **MachineGhost** » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:41 pm

moda0306 wrote: Goitrogens are from vegetables and block your thyroid unless you get enough iodine?

Am I hearing that right?

Go to 29:36: Link to Kresser podcast

moda0306 · Post by **moda0306** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:14 am

Still doing a lot of "skip breakfast" intermittent fasting, with some longer periods in there.

I quit lifting for a while as I just decided to "cut" hard and do a lot of biking around the lake near me until I lose perhaps another 10 lbs, then I'm going to "bulk" after that. It just got to the point where I didn't think I was doing neither weight loss nor lifting properly, and I thought I'd focus on one at a time.

Other than that "funny" feeling I still sometimes get, I'm doing great. I can tell it takes more "cutting" to lose the same amount of fat at 175 than it did at 215, but it's easier to accomplish said cutting now that my body enters a fat-burning state without inducing hunger more readily.

Just thought I'd report. I like it. Though I'm just one guy. I'll let you guys no if any negative side-effects pop up...

Which reminds me, I HAVE been having some pain in my left hand recently. I'm not sure what that could be from.

flagator · Post by **flagator** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:15 pm

Intermittent fasting, combined with caffeine, and strenuous exercise can crash the adrenals. Once that happens it can take quite a while to fix.

Moreover, if the adrenals become sluggish or crash, then the thyroid starts to slow down. Adding too much iodine can rev-up your thyroid which also ends up straining the adrenals as well.

Fasting by itself strains the adrenals because your glucose is maintained via cortisol secretion by the adrenal glands when one is not eating.

It seems like the whole concept of prolonged fasting is also risky nowadays as most people are mineral and nutrient depleted. given the prevalence of glyphosate ( roundup) in the food supply. It is a very potent mineral chelator. Fasting especially more than 24 hours can make the mineral depletion worse.

doodle · Post by **doodle** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:32 am

moda0306 wrote:
Benko wrote: Moda,

looks basically good. The only minor points I'll make as much for others reading as you:

1. "some ridiculous high-rep "Spartan" work"
Whatever you're doing, arrange things so as to minimize the odds of hurting yourself (please no oly lifts to failure). Someone once wrote a program for me which was something like:

A 3 sets of compound lifts
B 10 min cardio,

repeat A and B 3 times with different compound lifts each time.

2. At a minimum, get some kinda water filter e.g. brita and change it regularly.

3. I try and get berries (frozen, in season, or organic mixed powder), carrots, and spinach/kale many days (broccoli is very good too).

1) The closest thing I'm doing to "olympic lifts to failure" is super-light cleans and overhead press x 50 reps. Any thoughts? It really is super light weight. The rest is pushups, pullups, box jumps, etc. Body weight stuff. Miserable, I tell you.

I really don't know about it. Kicks my butt I was insanely sore for 3 days after. Given how much it sucks, I wouldn't worry about me doing it too often.

As far as weightlifting goes I would steer way clear of anything Olympic. Ballistic movement like that is dangerous and ineffective at properly loading muscles. If I were you I would follow a protocol from a guy like Doug McGuff, Drew Baye or something out of the nautilus bulletins by Arthur Jones. Much safer and much more effective. I linked a video below of a pretty good idea of what a safe and highly effective workout should look like IMHO. Notice how difficult it is yet totally absent of any of the crossfitty nonsense that passes as proper weightlifting today. It is Casey Viator training a client using a total body High Intensity protocol. Ive done this......its brutal. That opening set of leg extension, leg press, and squat is a killer: https://youtu.be/EGcVb3wBL_Q

moda0306 · Post by **moda0306** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:15 am

doodle wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
Benko wrote: Moda,

looks basically good. The only minor points I'll make as much for others reading as you:

1. "some ridiculous high-rep "Spartan" work"
Whatever you're doing, arrange things so as to minimize the odds of hurting yourself (please no oly lifts to failure). Someone once wrote a program for me which was something like:

A 3 sets of compound lifts
B 10 min cardio,

repeat A and B 3 times with different compound lifts each time.

2. At a minimum, get some kinda water filter e.g. brita and change it regularly.

3. I try and get berries (frozen, in season, or organic mixed powder), carrots, and spinach/kale many days (broccoli is very good too).

1) The closest thing I'm doing to "olympic lifts to failure" is super-light cleans and overhead press x 50 reps. Any thoughts? It really is super light weight. The rest is pushups, pullups, box jumps, etc. Body weight stuff. Miserable, I tell you.

I really don't know about it. Kicks my butt I was insanely sore for 3 days after. Given how much it sucks, I wouldn't worry about me doing it too often.

As far as weightlifting goes I would steer way clear of anything Olympic. Ballistic movement like that is dangerous and ineffective at properly loading muscles. If I were you I would follow a protocol from a guy like Doug McGuff, Drew Baye or something out of the nautilus bulletins by Arthur Jones. Much safer and much more effective. I linked a video below of a pretty good idea of what a safe and highly effective workout should look like IMHO. Notice how difficult it is yet totally absent of any of the crossfitty nonsense that passes as proper weightlifting today. It is Casey Viator training a client using a total body High Intensity protocol. Ive done this......its brutal. That opening set of leg extension, leg press, and squat is a killer: https://youtu.be/EGcVb3wBL_Q

Ok wait a minute...

Re: crossfitty nonsense, what don't you like about it? I've heard some reasonable anti-cf stuff but usually it's Olympic lifters complaining

What don't you like about Olympic lifts, as I've heard they are great if done with proper form. I'm talking squat, dead, bench, perhaps cleans but also rows. Maybe we are talking different lifts. If you don't like them, what are your main sources for that opinion, if you don't mind sharing.

Post by **l82start** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:21 am

doodle wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
Benko wrote: Moda,

looks basically good. The only minor points I'll make as much for others reading as you:

1. "some ridiculous high-rep "Spartan" work"
Whatever you're doing, arrange things so as to minimize the odds of hurting yourself (please no oly lifts to failure). Someone once wrote a program for me which was something like:

A 3 sets of compound lifts
B 10 min cardio,

repeat A and B 3 times with different compound lifts each time.

2. At a minimum, get some kinda water filter e.g. brita and change it regularly.

3. I try and get berries (frozen, in season, or organic mixed powder), carrots, and spinach/kale many days (broccoli is very good too).

1) The closest thing I'm doing to "olympic lifts to failure" is super-light cleans and overhead press x 50 reps. Any thoughts? It really is super light weight. The rest is pushups, pullups, box jumps, etc. Body weight stuff. Miserable, I tell you.

I really don't know about it. Kicks my butt I was insanely sore for 3 days after. Given how much it sucks, I wouldn't worry about me doing it too often.

As far as weightlifting goes I would steer way clear of anything Olympic. Ballistic movement like that is dangerous and ineffective at properly loading muscles. If I were you I would follow a protocol from a guy like Doug McGuff, Drew Baye or something out of the nautilus bulletins by Arthur Jones. Much safer and much more effective. I linked a video below of a pretty good idea of what a safe and highly effective workout should look like IMHO. Notice how difficult it is yet totally absent of any of the crossfitty nonsense that passes as proper weightlifting today. It is Casey Viator training a client using a total body High Intensity protocol. Ive done this......its brutal. That opening set of leg extension, leg press, and squat is a killer: https://youtu.be/EGcVb3wBL_Q

i started doing a "project Kratos" (drew bay ) body weight workout after reading "body by science" (doug McGuff) a couple-few months ago.. the body by science understanding of physiology and exercise strikes me as being dead on, and the body weight workout by project Kratos, are a good fit for someone like me who doesn't have, or want, a gym membership to do the BBS "big five" nautilus equipment routine, or has no home free weights, or would be afraid to go to failure with them working out alone (safety first.. injured is not moving towered health)

doodle · Post by **doodle** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:30 am

l82start wrote:
doodle wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
1) The closest thing I'm doing to "olympic lifts to failure" is super-light cleans and overhead press x 50 reps. Any thoughts? It really is super light weight. The rest is pushups, pullups, box jumps, etc. Body weight stuff. Miserable, I tell you.

I really don't know about it. Kicks my butt I was insanely sore for 3 days after. Given how much it sucks, I wouldn't worry about me doing it too often.

As far as weightlifting goes I would steer way clear of anything Olympic. Ballistic movement like that is dangerous and ineffective at properly loading muscles. If I were you I would follow a protocol from a guy like Doug McGuff, Drew Baye or something out of the nautilus bulletins by Arthur Jones. Much safer and much more effective. I linked a video below of a pretty good idea of what a safe and highly effective workout should look like IMHO. Notice how difficult it is yet totally absent of any of the crossfitty nonsense that passes as proper weightlifting today. It is Casey Viator training a client using a total body High Intensity protocol. Ive done this......its brutal. That opening set of leg extension, leg press, and squat is a killer: https://youtu.be/EGcVb3wBL_Q

i started doing a "project Kratos" (drew bay ) body weight workout after reading "body by science" (doug McGuff) a couple-few months ago.. the body by science understanding of physiology and exercise strikes me as being dead on, and the body weight workout by project Kratos, are a good fit for someone like me who doesn't have, or want, a gym membership to do the BBS "big five" nautilus equipment routine, or has no home free weights, or would be afraid to go to failure with them working out alone (safety first.. injured is not moving towered health)

Nice! Drew Baye's stuff is great. One of the few science driven trainers out there. Of course the real pioneer was Arthur Jones. His Nautilus Bulletins written over 40 years ago still seem cutting edge today: http://www.arthurjonesexercise.com/Bull ... etin1.html

Post by **l82start** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:59 am

moda0306 wrote:
doodle wrote:

As far as weightlifting goes I would steer way clear of anything Olympic. Ballistic movement like that is dangerous and ineffective at properly loading muscles. If I were you I would follow a protocol from a guy like Doug McGuff, Drew Baye or something out of the nautilus bulletins by Arthur Jones. Much safer and much more effective. I linked a video below of a pretty good idea of what a safe and highly effective workout should look like IMHO. Notice how difficult it is yet totally absent of any of the crossfitty nonsense that passes as proper weightlifting today. It is Casey Viator training a client using a total body High Intensity protocol. Ive done this......its brutal. That opening set of leg extension, leg press, and squat is a killer: https://youtu.be/EGcVb3wBL_Q
Ok wait a minute...

Re: crossfitty nonsense, what don't you like about it? I've heard some reasonable anti-cf stuff but usually it's Olympic lifters complaining

What don't you like about Olympic lifts, as I've heard they are great if done with proper form. I'm talking squat, dead, bench, perhaps cleans but also rows. Maybe we are talking different lifts. If you don't like them, what are your main sources for that opinion, if you don't mind sharing.

the problem with crossfity nonsense and Olympic lifts is you are more training to "accomplish the move" than for health or overall strengths and fitness. most of this kind of stuff (as awesome and impressive as it is) only works to make you skilled and strong at the lift or movement being preformed at the cost of high injury risk (very high if you are older)... if your goal is health, strength, bone density, and muscle mass up to genetic potential, while minimizing injury, risk of injury, and avoiding athletic performance specific injury's and disability's as you age, then there are far better choices. i would recommend reading the Dr Doug McGuff "Body by science" book, it has a well thought out understanding of all this stuff and can explain far better than i can, especially the actual physiology part of using exercise that works both length (long and short twitch ) muscle fibers to failure at the same time, and having long enough recovery times between workouts.....

doodle · Post by **doodle** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:34 pm

moda0306 wrote:
doodle wrote:
moda0306 wrote:
1) The closest thing I'm doing to "olympic lifts to failure" is super-light cleans and overhead press x 50 reps. Any thoughts? It really is super light weight. The rest is pushups, pullups, box jumps, etc. Body weight stuff. Miserable, I tell you.

I really don't know about it. Kicks my butt I was insanely sore for 3 days after. Given how much it sucks, I wouldn't worry about me doing it too often.

As far as weightlifting goes I would steer way clear of anything Olympic. Ballistic movement like that is dangerous and ineffective at properly loading muscles. If I were you I would follow a protocol from a guy like Doug McGuff, Drew Baye or something out of the nautilus bulletins by Arthur Jones. Much safer and much more effective. I linked a video below of a pretty good idea of what a safe and highly effective workout should look like IMHO. Notice how difficult it is yet totally absent of any of the crossfitty nonsense that passes as proper weightlifting today. It is Casey Viator training a client using a total body High Intensity protocol. Ive done this......its brutal. That opening set of leg extension, leg press, and squat is a killer: https://youtu.be/EGcVb3wBL_Q
Ok wait a minute...

Re: crossfitty nonsense, what don't you like about it? I've heard some reasonable anti-cf stuff but usually it's Olympic lifters complaining

What don't you like about Olympic lifts, as I've heard they are great if done with proper form. I'm talking squat, dead, bench, perhaps cleans but also rows. Maybe we are talking different lifts. If you don't like them, what are your main sources for that opinion, if you don't mind sharing.

I think Drew Baye does a better job of debunking Crossfit and Olympic lifts than I could here: http://baye.com/crossfit/

Basically Olympic lifts require a great deal of skill, coordination and timing (all of which degrade when performed when exhausted), are ballistic and carry a high risk of injury, and utilize momentum and speed to move the weight which limits the time under tension which the muscle is subjected to. In short, if you want to participate in the sport of Olympic lifting....then do them. If your interest is to get stronger, bigger, and healthier....avoid them.

doodle · Post by **doodle** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:35 pm

Moda,

Take a look at the video that I linked for an idea of what a safe and very effective workout should look like: https://youtu.be/EGcVb3wBL_Q

Here is another example with more rest between sets and more talking: https://youtu.be/4iTQttnNyXk

Post by **l82start** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:50 pm

or check out the "big five" body by science workout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVhhbC51_3k he is using slow motion 10+ seconds for each pull/push direction at 80% of max lift.. very tough no momentum used and it takes only a few reps of five different compound exercises* done to failure with no injury risk..

*no specific muscle targeting required
(there are free-weight and body weight versions of big 5 as well)

moda0306 · Post by **moda0306** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:56 pm

Interesting stuff, fellas. I do try to be risk conscious. What most lifters will tell you is that you are taking MORE risk by not doing squats and the like than by doing them, which I can understand in a sense, but what you're talking about appears to have decent upside with little downside. Perhaps, and hopefully, best of both worlds.

doodle · Post by **doodle** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:10 pm

l82start wrote: or check out the "big five" body by science workout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVhhbC51_3k he is using slow motion 10+ seconds for each pull/push direction at 80% of max lift.. very tough no momentum used and it takes only a few reps of five different compound exercises* done to failure with no injury risk..

*no specific muscle targeting required
(there are free-weight and body weight versions of big 5 as well)

The Ken Hutchins 10/10 superslow cadence that Doug McGuff uses is brutally difficult but I have heard Drew Baye and others argue that moving any slower than one needs to take the momentum out of the lift isn't necessary. I believe Nautilus prescribed a 3/3 cadence on most lifts and that is pretty good.

As far as squats, I use preexhaust now generally to try to reduce the amount of weight necessary. I was squatting around 300 for 10 good reps but my skeleton felt like it was getting more abuse than my muscles. I also didn't squat for about two months, but my hamstring development suffered a lot. Squats really hit the posterior chain hard.

iwealth · Post by **iwealth** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:12 pm

l82start wrote: or check out the "big five" body by science workout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVhhbC51_3k he is using slow motion 10+ seconds for each pull/push direction at 80% of max lift.. very tough no momentum used and it takes only a few reps of five different compound exercises* done to failure with no injury risk..

*no specific muscle targeting required
(there are free-weight and body weight versions of big 5 as well)

That looks intense. I'm going to read up on this as much as possible, but since you've already done your research, is this particularly effective for hypertrophy?

Post by **l82start** » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:21 pm

doodle wrote:
l82start wrote: or check out the "big five" body by science workout https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVhhbC51_3k he is using slow motion 10+ seconds for each pull/push direction at 80% of max lift.. very tough no momentum used and it takes only a few reps of five different compound exercises* done to failure with no injury risk..

*no specific muscle targeting required
(there are free-weight and body weight versions of big 5 as well)
The Ken Hutchins 10/10 superslow cadence that Doug McGuff uses is brutally difficult but I have heard Drew Baye and others argue that moving any slower than one needs to take the momentum out of the lift isn't necessary. I believe Nautilus prescribed a 3/3 cadence on most lifts and that is pretty good.

As far as squats, I use preexhaust now generally to try to reduce the amount of weight necessary. I was squatting around 300 for 10 good reps but my skeleton felt like it was getting more abuse than my muscles. I also didn't squat for about two months, but my hamstring development suffered a lot. Squats really hit the posterior chain hard.

Drew Baye has recommended moving up to a 4/4 for the higher difficulty levels on the body weight work out... the big five just recommends "going as slow as you can while still maintaining smooth motion" which is much easier to do on high end nautilus equipment, and comes in at around 10/10 for somebody fit.... i would expect using free weights or just getting started on nautilus gear the speed will be more inline with the 3/3 4/4 speed

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