Trump on Ben Carson

[MediumTex]

The appeal of Carson is bewildering to me.

He's a semi-conscious religious fanatic who knows virtually nothing about political leadership and probably less about how to govern.

The bit about Joseph having the pyramids built to hold grain gets him into the religious fanatic club.

Any Carson fans here who can explain his appeal?  Is he just the least offensive of the current candidates?  I don't get it.  He frequently seems like he is barely even awake.

[moda0306]

Wow that Trump clip was unbearable to watch. Yes. Repetition. Miserable repetition.

Is this what is allegedly "mesmerizing" people?  If I have to watch this clown in office for 4 years I might just check out of politics.

And I have no love for Carson. This has nothing to do with Trump bashing him. It's just I'm trying to absorb what the advantages of a Trump presidency might be and I think we might be dumbified to oblivion before we ever get the bullet trains finished.

[Pointedstick]

I think one of the major downsides to a Trump presidency is that we'll see liberals act once more like they did during the Bush administration: such deep embarrassment and shame over the executive that they start to go a little bit crazy. The constellation of personality traits that Trump embodies is simply one of the must repulsive thing to a lot of liberals.

[Pointedstick]

Yes, Trump can be a big bully. Don't you want the big bully on your side? There is not an option to inhabit a world with no big bullies.

Similarly, it should be pretty obvious that Trump's rant the other day would have been a career-ender for any other candidate. But not for him, you'll notice. Why is that? Don't you want a person with that kind of persuasive power and control over the media on your side? The only alternative is a president who is instead controlled and manipulated by the media--which would be every other candidate except for maybe Bernie Sanders. Does that sound better?

Finally, isn't it interesting how Trump can make positive and consequential things happen just by talking? The Ford plant, for example. He got them to scrap their plans to move to Mexico just by being a powerful celebrity who publicly shamed them for it. Boom, hundreds or thousands more jobs for Americans, without lifting a finger or spending a dime. Don't you want the kind of person who can do that on your side? Doesn't that sound preferable to someone who has never created a job for anyone and has no idea even in theory of how to do it, or someone who thinks that jobs come from the government spending millions of dollars on phony-baloney make-work programs?


In this era of international bullies, a media-saturated society, and stagnant employment and wages, doesn't Trump seem like exactly what we need?

The dude can behave like a clown, but that's just for the benefit of all the low-information voters who like that kind of stuff. All of us well-informed, highly intelligent types can see right through it, and we also realize that this is just the game all politicians have to play to get elected. You pander to the masses and give knowing winks to the smart people who pay attention to the product behind the advertising. That would be us. The antics aren't for you; they're for your old uncle who watches Fox News all day. Don't let yourself get fooled.

[Pointedstick]

I should warn you that I have been studying Donald Trump and Scott Adams' methods and am consciously trying to deploy my own flawed grasp of Master Wizard Persuader techniques on you, especially in the last post, and especially in the last paragraph. Notice how there I defined you the reader as a superior version of yourself: as someone who's smart enough to see through the sizzle, implicitly getting you to support the thesis that there is sizzle to see through. Emotionally, who doesn't like to feel as if they're better than other people and privy to some kind of secret?

I'm just pointing this out to highlight that this stuff totally works. I could be completely wrong and maybe Trump is just a narcissistic buffoon, but if he is, he is at the very least an absolute master of the very same persuasive techniques that I have imperfectly deployed here. Compare and contrast this to Hillary Clinton, a repulsive witch who really nobody at all likes. A lot of people who should be her supporters sort of subconsciously want to oppose her and see her fail. Even the media doesn't really like very much. I think Trump will crush her without really even having to try.

[Libertarian666]

Has anyone here read "The Art of the Deal"? If not, they should. I just got it and am finding it very interesting.
I know he didn't actually write it, but it sounds exactly like him, so the ghostwriter got it right.
He is not at all the buffoon that he appears on TV. He actually sounds much more like Hank Rearden, with a touch of Howard Roark.

[Pointedstick]

A few more comments:
1. No, I don't want a big bully for president.  Bullies can be very effective in corporations, especially at the top.  Corporations are not republics, they're essentially dictatorships.  I think Trump would be a pretty effective dictator, assuming one agreed with his choices (a huge assumption, since nobody really knows what he believes in, if anything).  An effective president has to work with a lot of people to get things done.  Simple bullying doesn't work.

It seems to me very much like Trump runs his company like all huge companies need to be run if they are to turn a profit and grow--in coordination with dozens if not hundreds of other people. This is the sign of someone who knows how to listen and delegate, not a power-hungry bully. We all know what corporate bullies look like. They don't build companies with billion-dollar market caps. They eviscerate the company, take all the money for themselves and their friends, and run away while the enterprise burns to the ground.

2. I don't believe that Trump is acting clownish/buffoonish just for the benefit of the convenience store, Natural Light swilling crowd.  I believe that's actually who he is.

It's definitely how he acts, but is it who he is? Does a clownish buffoon turn a million dollars into a billion dollars? Does a clownish buffoon successfully run a global corporation? Does a clownish buffoon manipulate the media so well that people who hate him and have wet dreams about his utter ruination wind up accidentally helping him? As only one recent example, think about his appearance on SNL. A ratings bonanza. Post-SNL polls show him in the 30s and 40s. Huge gain. Compare and contrast it to Sarah Palin's SNL appearance from 8 years ago. She was awkward, nervous, mocked, and derided. She became an object of nonstop ridicule among the left. They gutted her like a fish. Donald played them like a fiddle. That's not clownish buffoon stuff, that's master manipulator stuff. You don't walk into the lion cage and end up riding the lion by accident.

I'd rather have a president that was sober thinking and serious about his job.

Does that remind you of anyone?



After 8 years of cerebral lecturing and dithering about, I say it's time for a change.

[MachineGhost]

And I have no love for Carson. This has nothing to do with Trump bashing him. It's just I'm trying to absorb what the advantages of a Trump presidency might be and I think we might be dumbified to oblivion before we ever get the bullet trains finished.

Compare him to Clinton and I think the choice is easy.  For that matter, compare him to Rubio then compare Rubio to Clinton.

[MachineGhost]

The dude can behave like a clown, but that's just for the benefit of all the low-information voters who like that kind of stuff. All of us well-informed, highly intelligent types can see right through it, and we also realize that this is just the game all politicians have to play to get elected. You pander to the masses and give knowing winks to the smart people who pay attention to the product behind the advertising. That would be us. The antics aren't for you; they're for your old uncle who watches Fox News all day. Don't let yourself get fooled.

+1

[MachineGhost]

3. I still liked your polite and detailed reply, even if your intention was to manipulate.  I'm obviously not a grand wizard of any sort, nor do I want to be.  I don't appreciate the very notion at all.  I'd rather have a president that was sober thinking and serious about his job.  Trump would be an excellent banana republic dictator, but we can do better for president of the U.S.

Now that is an insult to banana republic dictators everywhere!  You're just letting your personal feelings cloud your judgement.  Quit being selfish and put whats best for the country ahead of your own feelings.

Have you read Trump's platform positions?  He's very sober and serious.

[MachineGhost]

In no particular order, I'd rather have any of these four:
Carson
Christie
Kasich
Paul

The only one I really like is Paul, but I could live with one of the other three.

Why the heck is Carson on that list?  What qualifications does he have to be there?

[Jack Jones]

And yes, I've been trying not to comment on Trump, because I see nothing compelling about him.  But I can't help it; he's just so loud, and so ridiculous.  The fact that a couple of my favorite posters on this forum like him is a huge surprise to me.

I feel the same way.

[Libertarian666]

After hearing a Carson interview last night, in which he said that the US should shoot down Russian airplanes who violate a Middle East no-fly zone and refused to answer what would happen if the Russians shot back, I think he has completely removed himself from consideration as a Presidential candidate.

I don't like Hitlary a bit, but I think even she would hesitate to start WW III...

[Tyler]

Any Carson fans here who can explain his appeal?  Is he just the least offensive of the current candidates?  I don't get it.  He frequently seems like he is barely even awake.

I'm not a Carson supporter.  But my personal take on why he's popular is that he's the most genuinely "trustworthy" of the available candidates on either side by a wide margin.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11 ... candidate/

People don't support him because they connect to any specific policy statement.  They support him because he seems the least likely to abuse the political power of the office, and that's a refreshing approach in a presidential candidate these days.  The political wolves seem to understand this, as the primary point of attack has been to somehow make him into a liar.  I think that's counter-productive, though, as the attacks only draw attention to his humble background and personal success story. 

[WiseOne]

The dude can behave like a clown, but that's just for the benefit of all the low-information voters who like that kind of stuff. All of us well-informed, highly intelligent types can see right through it, and we also realize that this is just the game all politicians have to play to get elected. You pander to the masses and give knowing winks to the smart people who pay attention to the product behind the advertising. That would be us. The antics aren't for you; they're for your old uncle who watches Fox News all day. Don't let yourself get fooled.

+1

YES.  PS, most excellent post.

The media is also doing its level best to push the "buffoon" image.  I saw an article this AM in which the text described an interview where Trump gave his thoughts on the issue of Syrian refugees - he had some very good points and I thought sounded quite reasonable.  At the end of the article, there was a brief paragraph with a description of a separate rabble-rousing event during which he said "Let's bomb the s**t out of ISIS!".

Guess what the title of the article was.  "Trump:  Bomb the --- out of ISIS." 

Is it possible that much of the "buffoon" impression of Trump are due to this sort of media manipulation?  As PS says, it doesn't jive with what we know of the man.  His company is certainly no Hewlett-Packard!

[MachineGhost]

Carson boldfaced lied to millions on the CNBC debate.  He's not trustworthy, so he'll be gone soon enough and we can focus on the real contenders.  I still don't get why this guy is even in the race.  Maybe "throw the bums out" sentiment isn't selective?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... lause.html

Trump is more moderate than Rubio, so if you don't like him for those reasons, Rubio should be your choice since he's the establishment.  There is a huge disconnect between voter popularity and establishment support with Trump and Rubio.  My understanding is that the Republican delegates get to choose who they want to nominate at the convention, but the establishment insiders have the ability to change the rules and/or block who they don't want nominated, i.e. Trump.  On the other side, the Clintons have been busy pressuring all the Democrat superdelegates to support them to avoid an Obama repeat (as if they have any serious competition...).  They need about 2,000 or so to be assured victory.  The common voter means nothing in this process, just bread and circuses content for the vapid media.

P.S.  The idea of Bill being First Gentleman makes me seriously ill.  That woman chasing whore monger would live it up at taxpayer expense and gawd knows what else.  Has he even kicked his cocaine habit?  Underage girls?  Ught.

P.P.S.  They're having the Republican Convention in Ohio, a swing state.  Not a coincidence.

[Pointedstick]

Carson will be gone soon.

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pol ... ubio,Trump

[img width=400]http://i.imgur.com/fy9D2aD.png[/img]

[MachineGhost]

You're projecting again.  There's no Trump fever here.  Just cold, solid wonky analysis.