Krugers, Maples, Eagles, or 'Roos?

[ochotona]

Which of these kinds of gold bullion coins can be sold resulting in the greatest recapture of the original investment?

Looking at texmetals.com,

Perth Kangaroos  $26 round-trip penalty
Canadian Maple Leaves  $35 round-trip penalty
US Gold Eagles  $39 round-trip penalty
Krugerrands  $44 round-trip penalty

Is this the experience of other people?

[dualstow]

I've never had the pleasure of making a round trip.

I have heard that maple leaf coins are more likely to get devalued if they're not cared for, because they're more easily scratched.
I hate, hate, hate the markup involved, as it reminds me of a fund with a front-end load (and back-end).
As for discrepancies between coins, I think it's often been said here that you pay a premium for eagles but that you get that premium back.

[ochotona]

I have heard that maple leaf coins are more likely to get devalued if they're not cared for, because they're more easily scratched.

These coins are really soft. I got a dinged one, but the dealer replaced it.

Maples and 'Roos are 24 karat, 99.99% gold

Eagles and Krugers are 22 karat, 91.67% gold

[Austen Heller]

Perth Kangaroos  $26 round-trip penalty
Canadian Maple Leaves  $35 round-trip penalty
US Gold Eagles  $39 round-trip penalty
Krugerrands  $44 round-trip penalty

Seems about right, but the cost for the Krugs is a bit high, that should be on par with the costs for the Maples, a bit cheaper than the Eagles.

I love how you call it a 'penalty', like all the people involved in minting and distribution should be working for free.  The transaction costs are really quite minimal, and if you're holding for the long-term, much cheaper than the ETFs.

Regarding 'round-tripping', you really will get more for the Eagles than the Maples when it is time to sell, so the overall costs of ownership will be about the same.

[MachineGhost]

Which of these kinds of gold bullion coins can be sold resulting in the greatest recapture of the original investment?

Looking at texmetals.com,

Perth Kangaroos  $26 round-trip penalty
Canadian Maple Leaves  $35 round-trip penalty
US Gold Eagles  $39 round-trip penalty
Krugerrands  $44 round-trip penalty

Is this the experience of other people?

In that list, Leaves and Kruggerunds are 1099-B reportable, so that would favor Eagles and Kangaroos which are exempt.

Premiums don't stay fixed for different coins; they will rise and fall depending on supply and demand.  But since you're talking about bullion which is essentially worthless in the real world with no numismatic value, then go for the lowest premium at any given time.

I like the new MintDirect encapsulation from AMPEX.  I'd suggest favoring those if you want to preserve whatever minuscule collectible value bullion has without the added cost of it being grad3ed (everything new off the press is MS69 or MS70 anyway).  It will help in keeping the coins fungible during panics and crises where the odds of being ripped off increases exponentially.  When a 1 ounce gold coin is worth $5000 ounce, you better believe there will be counterfeits galore.

[ochotona]

In that list, Leaves and Kruggerunds are 1099-B reportable, so that would favor Eagles and Kangaroos which are exempt.

I love the randomness of the government. 

[MachineGhost]

I love the randomness of the government. 

It's not a conspiracy but leftover from gold futures contracts which have reportable minimums.

Also exempt: fractional bullion, austrian philharmonic, buffalos, silver leaves, pandas.

Personally, if I was going to buy common bullion, I'd buy MintDirect Buffalos.  But from a liquidity standpoint, Eagles are the reference standard worldwide.  You can't top that.  I'm pretty sure gold content doesn't matter in modern bullion as each coin is sized to be exactly 1 oz in gold which wasn't the case for pre-1933 coins.

Also, bars are cheaper still...  especially offshore.

[Libertarian666]

I love the randomness of the government. 

It's not a conspiracy but leftover from gold futures contracts which have reportable minimums.

Also exempt: fractional bullion, austrian philharmonic, buffalos, silver leaves, pandas.

Personally, if I was going to buy common bullion, I'd buy MintDirect Buffalos.  But from a liquidity standpoint, Eagles are the reference standard worldwide.  You can't top that.  I'm pretty sure gold content doesn't matter in modern bullion as each coin is sized to be exactly 1 oz in gold which wasn't the case for pre-1933 coins.

Also, bars are cheaper still...  especially offshore.

I believe that only applies to transaction of 25 coins or more, but I could be wrong.

[Libertarian666]

Which of these kinds of gold bullion coins can be sold resulting in the greatest recapture of the original investment?

Looking at texmetals.com,

Perth Kangaroos  $26 round-trip penalty
Canadian Maple Leaves  $35 round-trip penalty
US Gold Eagles  $39 round-trip penalty
Krugerrands  $44 round-trip penalty

Is this the experience of other people?

In that list, Leaves and Kruggerunds are 1099-B reportable, so that would favor Eagles and Kangaroos which are exempt.

Premiums don't stay fixed for different coins; they will rise and fall depending on supply and demand.  But since you're talking about bullion which is essentially worthless in the real world with no numismatic value, then go for the lowest premium at any given time.

I like the new MintDirect encapsulation from AMPEX.  I'd suggest favoring those if you want to preserve whatever minuscule collectible value bullion has without the added cost of it being grad3ed (everything new off the press is MS69 or MS70 anyway).  It will help in keeping the coins fungible during panics and crises where the odds of being ripped off increases exponentially.  When a 1 ounce gold coin is worth $5000 ounce, you better believe there will be counterfeits galore.

I doubt there will be any counterfeits, unless you mean that they are made out of gold but not minted by the official mints, in which case who cares?

The only metal that is considerably cheaper than gold but has almost the same density is tungsten, and anyone could tell the difference by "ringing" the coin, since the speed of sound in tungsten is much higher than in gold.

See https://www.thefisch.com/shownews/id/1411222857 for a device to do this if you find it necessary.

[Austen Heller]

I love the randomness of the government. 

It's not a conspiracy but leftover from gold futures contracts which have reportable minimums.

Also exempt: fractional bullion, austrian philharmonic, buffalos, silver leaves, pandas.

Personally, if I was going to buy common bullion, I'd buy MintDirect Buffalos.  But from a liquidity standpoint, Eagles are the reference standard worldwide.  You can't top that.  I'm pretty sure gold content doesn't matter in modern bullion as each coin is sized to be exactly 1 oz in gold which wasn't the case for pre-1933 coins.

Also, bars are cheaper still...  especially offshore.

I believe that only applies to transaction of 25 coins or more, but I could be wrong.

That is right, 25 coin minimum for reporting.
http://www.jmbullion.com/reportable-bul ... fographic/

I wouldn't let the reporting issue stop you from buying whatever coin you like the most.  For instance, the American Eagle is in my opinion butt-ugly.  The gal's face is just not pleasant to look at.  The maples on the other hand, are much more beautiful.  If you are really against the whole reporting thing, then just plan to sell less than 25 coins at a time.

[MachineGhost]

See https://www.thefisch.com/shownews/id/1411222857 for a device to do this if you find it necessary.

I'm trying to envision that happening down at the local community bank...  are those tellers going to be savvy enough to tell a fake tungsten gold coin from a real one?  So tamper-proof encapsulation ups your odds of no drama.

And don't underestimate the ingenuity of criminals to find a way to make it work to pass detectors.  They careerists.  How well does that work out for politicians?

[ochotona]

For my part, I envision selling my coins back to the small group of PM dealers with whom I've done business, so I don't think there should be trust issues.

[Libertarian666]

See https://www.thefisch.com/shownews/id/1411222857 for a device to do this if you find it necessary.

I'm trying to envision that happening down at the local community bank...  are those tellers going to be savvy enough to tell a fake tungsten gold coin from a real one?  So tamper-proof encapsulation ups your odds of no drama.

And don't underestimate the ingenuity of criminals to find a way to make it work to pass detectors.  They careerists.  How well does that work out for politicians?

I'm pretty sure that the laws of physics are beyond the ability of criminals to bypass.

As for "tamper-proof", that is also "test-proof", i.e., you can't do a ring test on an encapsulated coin.

And I don't expect anyone at a local bank to know this until they need to know it. If we see a collapse of the dollar such that gold becomes usable as money at a local bank, I'll be happy to explain this to the teller if she doesn't already know it, with references to prove that I know what I'm talking about. Or maybe I should get one of the fake tungsten coins to use as an example of how to tell the difference?

[Libertarian666]

I have heard that maple leaf coins are more likely to get devalued if they're not cared for, because they're more easily scratched.

These coins are really soft. I got a dinged one, but the dealer replaced it.

Maples and 'Roos are 24 karat, 99.99% gold

Eagles and Krugers are 22 karat, 91.67% gold

I got dinged (about $10 each) when I sold a couple of maples that the dealer said were scuffed.

[MachineGhost]

For my part, I envision selling my coins back to the small group of PM dealers with whom I've done business, so I don't think there should be trust issues.

Let's think outside the box.  What if the government re-illegalizes or puts a 100% taxation rate on all precioue metal sales and your small group of PM dealers get forced out of business?  Then you got to start dealing with dealers in other countries in alien cultures where trust inversely decreases.  I say alien because it is very likely such an edict would be a coordinated worldwide response in Anglo-Saxon countries, NORAD, EMU, etc.. under the auspices of the IMF.

[ochotona]

Let's think outside a bigger box. Someday, one of my descendants will be able to sell their gold legally again. It doesn't have to be me.

When does your next vacation begin?

[MachineGhost]

Let's think outside a bigger box. Someday, one of my descendants will be able to sell their gold legally again. It doesn't have to be me.

When does your next vacation begin?

Right now.  See ya!

[MachineGhost]

Just kidding.  Have a good vacay.  What reading are you doing these days (if you can answer that one question before you desert us again)?

I'm still here; I forgot to update the Permament Oral Care Regime!  I have over a two year backlog of BusinessWeek magazines to get through as well as several hundred blog entries on investing, economics and trading.  I'm never letting this happen again!